2010-06-19, 11:49 | Link #10001 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
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2010-06-19, 12:35 | Link #10003 | |
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As for the whole situation of Force. We got what seems like Anti-magic magics for the Antagonist, with Nanoha and Co. developing Anti-Anti-magic weapons. This might get ridicules later on if they decided to give the Antagonist an Anti-Anti-Anti-magic something or rather. |
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2010-06-19, 13:35 | Link #10005 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
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Cypha didn't defeat Signum by overpowering her, or by exploiting a cheat. Cypha won because Signum made a tactical error, sending Agito off to bind Thoma instead of concentrating all their force on Cypha. It isn't even clear that the Eclipse version of antimagic is a "cheat" in the sense of being much stronger than the AMF Jail put in his drones. Cypha says it nullifies magical attacks, but Cypha is clearly arrogant to the point of megalomania. What we see is consistent with a personal AMF that badly erodes any magic approaching Cypha, and Cypha taking that for a complete nullification.
The Huckebein strike me as one-trick ponies -- they rely on the Eclipse antimagic for defense, because they've never run into a mage who knows how to compensate for that. In light of the fact (established in StrikerS) that standard TSAB training doesn't include fighting in AMF, that's quite credible; Nanoha and Vita know it's a problem, but they're not writing the TSAB curriculum yet. The Section Six reunion is therefore the worst possible thing for the Huckebein; those are precisely the TSAB mages with the most experience fighting against AMF. Throw in that we see Nanoha testing a kinetic kill weapon in the latest chapter ... I'd say the TSAB is ready to deal with the Huckebein. Signum's defeat was due more to strategic surprise and bad tactics than real weakness. |
2010-06-19, 14:11 | Link #10006 | |
Friendly Satanist
Join Date: May 2009
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Basically, my take on it is that a conventional mage is completely outmatched against a competent Eclipse user, but that the tables will turn when Nanoha et al. bring nonconventional weapons to the table. As an aside, I note that Vita mentions "my 03" and "Nanoha's 00" in addition to the 02 and 07 we've seen in Force NEXT. I wonder what they are? Goldion Hammer and 00 Gundam, anyone? |
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2010-06-19, 14:20 | Link #10007 |
Banned
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It's also stated that Signum wasn't quite expected to run into them, but that they already have intel on them; hence the testing of the new weapons. Even during the fight, Signum was aware of certain things, but apparently didn't quite expect them to be that strong. Still, it all strikes me as a bit off... Signum should have been a bit more cautious, and treated Cypha as considerably more of a threat, not canceling the unison until Cypha was dealt with.
I keep expecting there to be something else, perhaps that bind spell that Agito left but wasn't used. Part of me wonders if Signum knows she can take that level of punishment, and deliberately let it happen, but that doesn't fit quite right with me, either. |
2010-06-19, 18:46 | Link #10008 | ||
Delurker
Join Date: Jan 2007
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2010-06-19, 22:56 | Link #10011 | |
Labda Prakarsa Nirwikara
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Pekanbaru (UTC+07:00)
Age: 37
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In fact, the impression I got from StrikerS and Force is that Nanoha and Hayate are currently trying to implement Earth-style military ideas into the relatively stagnant TSAB Peacekeeping Force. For example: 1. Hayate's idea of a small task force comprised of highly-trained specialist is apparently uncommon among the Bureau. 2. Nanoha refused the notion from the top brass that the AMF is something harmless and decided to secretly do some research and teach her cadets on counter-AMF warfare. 3. After years of finding ancient techs that always seem to be superior against their current gears, their response in Force is to initiate a new weapons R&D project so that in an emergency Bureau agents would only need to request access on higher-level clearance equipments instead of praying for luck that they would stumble upon an ancient super weapon to defeat the enemy . In W40K terms, this would mean that they stopped relying solely on STCs and let the Techpriests think of new ideas . One couldn't help but think that had the Bureau not ban combat drones like the ones made by Jail S., Nanoha and Hayate would probably have use them for reconnaissance and fire support similar to earth's UAVs . Oh daughters of Earth, you make us all proud ...
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Last edited by Tiresias; 2010-06-20 at 02:06. |
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2010-06-20, 01:22 | Link #10013 |
Secret Society BLANKET
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 3 times the passion of normal flamenco
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Military strategy and technological arms races done right are always more interesting in the long term than Hot Blood and Rule of Cool. But then again, who says you can't do both?
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2010-06-20, 02:06 | Link #10014 |
The Flame Crussader
Join Date: Aug 2009
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So this is like the mid-season upgrade used frequently on the gundam franchise?(you know, when the "main" gundams are destroyed and somehow replaced by new more powerfull ones with some resemblance to the originals), it's kind of cool indeed but i feels it made the dynamic of battles lost some of their "romance", you know, when you can fight against the circunstances and win by a combination of skill and strenght, now it's all by "who has the biggest gun". Sure, Huckbein wil be eventualy defeated ...by almost the same means they used first, it would be interesting if some of the main characters can make it out of a thigt spot by her own(for example: Vita's new equipement is not ready for efectively use, but, during an emergency she would use it anyways, i could be totally awesome if at some point of the battle her new weapon fails or is wrecked and she recours to her old and thrustfull Graf Eisen and somehow manage to smash the face of one of the Huckies) like Teana in StrikerS, the numbers outmach her in every aspect(strenght, stamina, power level and equipement) and she manage to defeat three of them(with equal awesome assistance from Vice) or the Fate VS. Vita first encounter. About the Hot Blood/Rule of Cool thing, maybe is the very reason of why Signum was nearly killed and why i have a so familiar feeling, Cool characters don't last for long in this kind of enviroment(Roy Focker and Kamina are prime examples).
Well, it is implied that it's some new(but untested) equipement for Signum as well so that maybe she gets to use it(or someone as a homage) but i still feel sorry for Laevatein, we never get to see the Phantom Phoenix(Bogenform + Agito xD!), i think she won't need any upgrades(besides Agito and a repaired Laevatein) but only knowledge to made countermeasures for Eclipse-powered attacks. Finally, something came to my mind after seeing Reinforce Zwei freezing some Gadget Drones, she magically controls wind and temperature but the consecuences of her spells(Ice, Coldness, windblows) are not tied to her magic, so in theory Rein's speels(and some of the "area effect" ones of Hayate), if used properly, can actually DO damage to an Eclipse-infected individual? ...if that's the case, what's with Zafira's err..uhm... pikes? sure it's an spell but once it's summoned it work like a physical spear(well, nevermind about that one, a "reacted" Huckie can just shrugg off that one like nothing), it may be tricky but still a form of emergency measure to deal with them by using magic to affect the enviroment and indirectly attack them. Accurate?: MSLN = Card Captor Sakura + Gundam MSLN A's = Magic Knight Rayearth + DBZ MSLN StrikerS = Gundam + Macross + a bit of Sailor Moon MSLN ViVid = Magical Doremi + Street Fighter MSLN FORCE = Macross + Gundam Wing + Cold War + HALO? |
2010-06-20, 02:32 | Link #10015 |
Maniacal laughter ensues.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: My own delusions of grandeur.
Age: 35
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Huh, gravity might work well, although we haven't seen any gravity based spells yet. And we never did see Chrono use that Durandal staff after A's... Besides, we haven't gotten to see Chrono in ages. It's a good excuse!
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2010-06-20, 04:38 | Link #10016 | ||||||||||
Mastermind Rational
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Nanoha: "No, Feito-chan, we cannot hold hands anymore, because that will make them stronger!" Fate: *complete mental breakdown* Nanoha: *holds hands* Nana Mizuki: *sings* Asskicking: *ensues* Nanoha & Fate: *marry* HAPPY END Nothing can beat Nanofate homoerotic tension! Quote:
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Signum has made not mistake, she has merely made a choice between a) facing two EC-infected at once, b) having a civilian killed and then facing two EC-infected at once, and c) having a small chance of both saving the civilian, and restraining both EC-infected separately. The fact that Cypha forced that choice upon her is cheating, because it's not knightly at all. I do agree, however, that it is not cheating in warfare terms: all war is based on deception. On a side note, Signum herself also did some unknightly things in A's, but at least she cared about restoring her honor later, which made the consequences less drastic and herself, easier to forgive. Cypha... not so much. And here I was, hoping that another hot swordswoman I could root for was introduced... However, the whole motif of machineguns replacing chivalry is plain depressing. Do not want.
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Last edited by Koveras Alvane; 2010-06-20 at 07:47. |
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2010-06-20, 09:18 | Link #10019 | |||
Labda Prakarsa Nirwikara
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Pekanbaru (UTC+07:00)
Age: 37
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— King Archidamus of Sparta (IV century B.C.), according to Plutarch, cried out on seeing the missile shot by a catapult. . Yeah, the notion that technology kills chivalry is really old. Then again, all is fair in love and war . To be fair though, the arms race has already begun during A's. In case you forgotten, one of the reason Fate and Nanoha got curb-stomped in their first encounter against the Wolkenritter is that the latter can boost their powers using the Cartridge System. When their own devices got upgraded with the Cartridge System, skill and strength once again mattered . History repeats. Quote:
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This one's quite appropriate I assume the Magic Knight refers to the sad ending (though I still hate CLAMP in general), but I don't get the DBZ one Too few missile barrages for Macross Quite fitting I'll hold my opinion on this one until I actually see where the series is really heading I think Modern Warfare series fits better than HALO though, Spoiler for MW2:
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Last edited by Tiresias; 2010-06-20 at 11:20. |
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2010-06-20, 09:23 | Link #10020 |
Secret Society BLANKET
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 3 times the passion of normal flamenco
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From what we're seeing of Force Next though, the new devices are introduced to complement the existing devices rather than replace them: RH is reassigned to a large Bit when Nanoha has the Strike Cannon, and Subaru's Sword Breaker completes her arsenal of extremity-mounted devices by taking residence on her previously unarmed left hand while keeping Mach Caliber and Revolver Knuckle in place.
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adventure, manga, nanoha, seinen |
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