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View Poll Results: Gundam 00 - Episode 25 Rating
Perfect 10 145 47.39%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 49 16.01%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 39 12.75%
7 out of 10 : Good 36 11.76%
6 out of 10 : Average 16 5.23%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 5 1.63%
4 out of 10 : Poor 2 0.65%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 2 0.65%
1 out of 10 : Painful 12 3.92%
Voters: 306. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2017-11-19, 20:43   Link #981
AnimeFangirl
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Finished! Except for the movie, which promises to finally explain what the whole Jupiter thing was about. I'll save final comments on the series until I've watched it.

The jump from the end of the series to "We have a new president and everyone's happy-happy" was really sudden. I hope the movie will explain how things got to that stage. What happened to the rest of the Federation top brass, why did Homer kill himself, how come Katharon is on the council now, and so on. Did Kati have the clout to make all those changes by herself? If not, who were her backers and who was she talking to in the end?

It seems like the world was getting on well enough and then the Gundams came and messed things up until the world unified, which led to even more people getting killed, which led to the Gundams killing even more people, but somehow everything worked out because Setsuna used miracle particles to make it work out. So did he keep using the particles until everyone on earth decided to work together to rebuild or what? Maybe the movie will explain.

The final battle was suitably epic at first. I liked the design and coloring of Ribbons' Gundam, and he gave the 00 a run for its money. All was well until they both changed into near-identical mobile suits. And while I was trying to figure out who was who, the kids started singing and Marina started talking on top of that. At least that part was short.

Patrick survived! And married Kati! That's great, I couldn't bear to lose him after losing both Tieria and Colonel Smirnov. And everyone else lived happily ever after, the end.
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Old 2017-11-19, 21:06   Link #982
bakato
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnimeFangirl View Post
Finished! Except for the movie, which promises to finally explain what the whole Jupiter thing was about. I'll save final comments on the series until I've watched it.

The jump from the end of the series to "We have a new president and everyone's happy-happy" was really sudden. I hope the movie will explain how things got to that stage. What happened to the rest of the Federation top brass, why did Homer kill himself, how come Katharon is on the council now, and so on. Did Kati have the clout to make all those changes by herself? If not, who were her backers and who was she talking to in the end?

It seems like the world was getting on well enough and then the Gundams came and messed things up until the world unified, which led to even more people getting killed, which led to the Gundams killing even more people, but somehow everything worked out because Setsuna used miracle particles to make it work out. So did he keep using the particles until everyone on earth decided to work together to rebuild or what? Maybe the movie will explain.

The final battle was suitably epic at first. I liked the design and coloring of Ribbons' Gundam, and he gave the 00 a run for its money. All was well until they both changed into near-identical mobile suits. And while I was trying to figure out who was who, the kids started singing and Marina started talking on top of that. At least that part was short.

Patrick survived! And married Kati! That's great, I couldn't bear to lose him after losing both Tieria and Colonel Smirnov. And everyone else lived happily ever after, the end.
There's nothing to explain. The A-Laws were using Veda's information control to hide their evil deeds, murdering civilians and various war crimes. After the final battle, it fell into the hands of Katharon and Kati who used it to bring the aforementioned to the public eye. Related personnel and accomplices were arrested. Homer, as the commander of the A-Laws and complicit in the scheme of the innovators, committed suicide rather than stand trial for his crimes. With this reversal, Katharon went from rebel anarchists to revolutionary heroes. As its leader, Klaus was probably offered a political position for his merits. Kati didn't have any backers. She chose to support Katharon in the final battle. Obviously, she wasn't tried for treason afterwards and got promoted to general. She was talking to Andrei Smirnov.

The world was as peaceful as it was with three world superpowers playing a zer-sum game with plenty of smaller countries like Krugis suffering from civil war and other third world problems. CB's interventions never explicitly harmed civilians. The A-Laws murdered countless innocent people willy nilly and the innovators controlled everything while regular people lived their lives blissfully unaware like cattle. CB's war against the A-Laws again never directly harmed civilians.

There was nothing "near identical" about 0 gundam and Exia. You saw the latter for the entirety of the first season.

You know for a guy who presumably binge-watched this, your post indicates a disturbing lack of attention to detail.
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Old 2017-11-19, 21:17   Link #983
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I knew the whole point of the final mission was to recover Veda and expose all the misdeeds of the Federation/A-LAWS. They only said it like 100 times. But it's strange to me how getting the truth out = it was A-LAWS that was bad, the Federation are the good guys! = Everything hunky-dory. Was it really that simple? A little public outrage is all it took to dismantle such a powerful organization and dislodge all the key persons in the Federation? And now everyone understands each other and wants to work together towards the future? Just like that? That's why I wanted to see the intermediate fallout, not just the results.

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The world was as peaceful as it was with three world superpowers playing a zer-sum game with plenty of smaller countries like Krugis suffering from civil war and other third world problems. CB's interventions never explicitly harmed civilians. The A-Laws murdered countless innocent people willy nilly and the innovators controlled everything while regular people lived their lives blissfully unaware like cattle. CB's war against the A-Laws again never directly harmed civilians.
When I say Gundams, I'm including the Thrones in there. They're the ones who kicked things up to the next level and led to unification. Without them it's doubtful if it would ever have happened, certainly not as quickly. Unification led to the formation of A-LAWS, for better or worse. You might call CB + the Thrones the indirect cause of all the civilian deaths that accompanied the forced unification.

And I'm still mystified at the ending - so now no smaller countries are suffering from civil war and all conflict has been wiped out? Because Katharon has been taken into the fold? Because the miracle particles made everyone understand each other? That's nice, but how exactly did it happen?
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Old 2017-11-19, 21:23   Link #984
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Originally Posted by AnimeFangirl View Post
I knew the whole point of the final mission was to recover Veda and expose all the misdeeds of the Federation/A-LAWS. They only said it like 100 times. But it's strange to me how getting the truth out = it was A-LAWS that was bad, the Federation are the good guys! = Everything hunky-dory. Was it really that simple? A little public outrage is all it took to dismantle such a powerful organization and dislodge all the key persons in the Federation? And now everyone understands each other and wants to work together towards the future? Just like that? That's why I wanted to see the intermediate fallout, not just the results.
Yes, it was.
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Old 2017-11-19, 21:39   Link #985
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If Celestial Being has truly eliminated all conflict from the world with the removal of the Innovators and A-LAWS - notwithstanding the fact that fundamental human nature hasn't changed, the fact that humans have been killing each other for as long as humans have existed, and the fact that war isn't so easily gotten rid of and that even miracle particles aren't enough to get aggressors to back off permanently - then that's fine.

Otherwise they've left the world only a little better off than it was before they came, with relative peace everywhere and pockets of conflict and poverty. More prosperity, less war (possibly? unproven), but was it really worth the millions of lives lost and billions of damage in property caused by their direct and indirect actions? Celestial Being will now have to act as World Police stopping conflict every time it crops up, and according to Kati the Feds won't allow that. It's a setup for more conflict in the future (or a sequel hook that never came to pass).

I'll watch the movie tomorrow and see if it convinces me any.
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Old 2017-11-19, 21:56   Link #986
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Originally Posted by AnimeFangirl View Post
If Celestial Being has truly eliminated all conflict from the world with the removal of the Innovators and A-LAWS - notwithstanding the fact that fundamental human nature hasn't changed, the fact that humans have been killing each other for as long as humans have existed, and the fact that war isn't so easily gotten rid of and that even miracle particles aren't enough to get aggressors to back off permanently - then that's fine.

Otherwise they've left the world only a little better off than it was before they came, with relative peace everywhere and pockets of conflict and poverty. More prosperity, less war (possibly? unproven), but was it really worth the millions of lives lost and billions of damage in property caused by their direct and indirect actions? Celestial Being will now have to act as World Police stopping conflict every time it crops up, and according to Kati the Feds won't allow that. It's a setup for more conflict in the future (or a sequel hook that never came to pass).

I'll watch the movie tomorrow and see if it convinces me any.
No one said they did. Saji said it himself. When human nature starts acting up and starting conflicts, they'll be back. However, with the development of innovators Setsuna and the 00 started, humanity is now on a path to the eradication of war. They overthrew a corrupt government that was a pawn of selfish, egotistical individuals who only saw humans as cattle. On the whole, things are a lot better than the beginning and end of season 1. A world government dedicated to peace and cooexistence, which is also making amends to non-member nations wronged by the A-Laws.
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Old 2017-11-19, 23:02   Link #987
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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Originally Posted by AnimeFangirl View Post
I knew the whole point of the final mission was to recover Veda and expose all the misdeeds of the Federation/A-LAWS. They only said it like 100 times. But it's strange to me how getting the truth out = it was A-LAWS that was bad, the Federation are the good guys! = Everything hunky-dory. Was it really that simple? A little public outrage is all it took to dismantle such a powerful organization and dislodge all the key persons in the Federation?
It’s easier and quicker to topple an organization when the said organization is proved to be affiliated or working under a bunch of megalomaniacal Innovades who wanted to rule over mankind like Ribbons & co. Not mentioning how A-Laws lose several of its big leaders and military resources and might. The combined power of CB, Federation and the rest of the world, the remnants of A-Laws didn’t stand a chance anymore. Veda provided the rest of the information for the CB alliance. That’s what A-Laws get by screwing pretty much everybody who weren’t aligned with their agenda.

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And now everyone understands each other and wants to work together towards the future? Just like that? That's why I wanted to see the intermediate fallout, not just the results.
If you put it to scrutiny, it's definitely not that simple, but the writer & director simply has no time and budget to animate the process. As long as the logic is not so farfetched, jumping to the result is good enough.

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When I say Gundams, I'm including the Thrones in there. They're the ones who kicked things up to the next level and led to unification. Without them it's doubtful if it would ever have happened, certainly not as quickly. Unification led to the formation of A-LAWS, for better or worse. You might call CB + the Thrones the indirect cause of all the civilian deaths that accompanied the forced unification.
You’re right in some way. The world will probably unite a bit slower without the Thrones, but even without them, it was inevitable and would've happen sooner rather than later. I mean the battle in the desert back in Season 1 is already a big indication of it. The Thrones & Trinity themselves weren’t really part of the original plan.

Still, maybe I have to tell you that the Thrones, Alejandro Corner and the rebellion of the Innovades like Ribbons & co (which helped created A-LAWS) really put a damper to Aeolia’s original plan. You see, to be simple: his plan was basically meant so that the CB & Gundams’ action will result in the world being truly unified to fight a common enemy and boosting the world’s (military) technology to win the big war that will come.

This “common enemy” that I said above is not CB or the Gundams, but “something” that you will see in the movie. The world must unite first in order to effectively fight the “thing”. If you’ve seen the Muv-Luv series, you’d understand how ineffective and chaotic the world can be when an “outside terror” invade the Earth when it’s still divided and nations keep on bickering with each other. Aeolia didn’t want that. But alas, Aeolia’s plan had to go through a lot of bumps in the road (most of them being treason from parties who were involved with his plan in the first place like Alejandro and Innovades like Ribbons) which considerably delayed and derailed his original plan. Now, even if the world’s is already united, it’s questionable if they can really face the incoming threat.

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And I'm still mystified at the ending - so now no smaller countries are suffering from civil war and all conflict has been wiped out? Because Katharon has been taken into the fold? Because the miracle particles made everyone understand each other? That's nice, but how exactly did it happen?
Basically, with A-Laws down, the world just got rid of considerable number of powerful individuals who have no goodwill towards the prosperity of people at large and many people who do and oppose them rose to power thanks to Federation & CB/Veda’s help. That alone will create a (much) better governance. Some small skirmishes do still happen as you can see CB patrolling the world at the end of S2, but at least it's nowhere near the scale before the events of S1.
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Old 2017-11-19, 23:15   Link #988
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There's way to many replies for me to read them and reply to each point and not get a headache. @_@

In any case, Innovation of humanity is the series's answer to solving the war issues. Everything else including the combat interventions are a temporary measure until that phase is completed. But practically it can only be the last step as opposed to the first.

That's why everything else like the dismantling of nuclear technology and weapons (part of the plan and executed before the anime time), creation of the solar elevators (infinite energy supply for prosperity but required the existence of the power blocs in Season 1).

Season 1's intervention was basically to culminate and force the political will for the blocs to to unite under the Federation.

The creation of the solar elevator was why the blocs were formed in the first place bec

This is all a pre-requisite to third phase of the plan, which is deep space migration and contact with other intelligent being as Tieria mentioned in Episode 24.
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Old 2017-11-20, 05:19   Link #989
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This “common enemy” that I said above is not CB or the Gundams, but “something” that you will see in the movie. The world must unite first in order to effectively fight the “thing”.
Okay, about to watch it now. It will be good to shed more light on the mysteries behind Aeolia for which Kinue had to die.
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Old 2017-11-20, 09:40   Link #990
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Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
Still, maybe I have to tell you that the Thrones, Alejandro Corner and the rebellion of the Innovades like Ribbons & co (which helped created A-LAWS) really put a damper to Aeolia’s original plan. You see, to be simple: his plan was basically meant so that the CB & Gundams’ action will result in the world being truly unified to fight a common enemy and boosting the world’s (military) technology to win the big war that will come.

This “common enemy” that I said above is not CB or the Gundams, but “something” that you will see in the movie. The world must unite first in order to effectively fight the “thing”.
No, that's not it. You're getting the spirit wrong.

Spoiler for Movie Spoilers:


Quote:
If you’ve seen the Muv-Luv series, you’d understand how ineffective and chaotic the world can be when an “outside terror” invade the Earth when it’s still divided and nations keep on bickering with each other.
This is also something that Ribbons very much wanted to do. This is why Ribbons attacked and isolated the Middle Eastern countries that refused to join the Federation. This is why he attacked Seel and Azadistan and forced a lot their people to migrate onto space colonies. This is why he used GN Particles to kill Seel's IT industry as well as isolating the Solar Energy System from countries that aren't in the ESF.

I'm not sure what Aeolia's plan for dealing with holdouts in this situation but Ribbons was very much about uniting the world under his feet to ensure unity during the Dialogues.
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Old 2017-11-20, 20:03   Link #991
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Is there some other site for side story and extra material translations? I'm going by the wiki, but I want to know if there are more detailed sources.
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Old 2017-11-20, 23:34   Link #992
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No, that's not it. You're getting the spirit wrong.
Spoiler for Movie Spoilers. Don't click before you watch the movie!:
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Old 2017-11-21, 05:17   Link #993
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Spoiler for Movie Spoilers. Don't click before you watch the movie!:
This points back to my problem with the whole "miracle particles solve everything" approach. Characters like Ribbons and Ali show full well that some people just can't be negotiated with. You can talk with them all you like and they might even pretend to agree but you turn your back on them and you get shot.

Things like human greed, sin, ambition, lust, drug addictions, all those things can't be done away with just by talking. The show underestimates the ability of human beings to do evil. "Wow I understand you perfectly, and you're a really nice person... but I still want your money/wife/position/oil/lovely blue planet." What then?

Setsuna himself killed lots of enemy pilots even with the magic particles in the air... Why not talk to them all, huh Setsuna? Is it because they're faceless grunts?
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Old 2017-11-21, 05:39   Link #994
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As far as "miracle particles solve everything," supplemental materials concerning events between the conflict in the movie and its epilogue show that's far from the case.

But that's a conversation best saved for the movie thread now that you're caught up.
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Old 2017-11-21, 09:15   Link #995
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Oh so many different discussions, this is going to take awhile for me to write up especially since I also have some fires to deal with in real life. Still good to have em!

I'll respond to some and probabaly out of order.
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