2011-01-21, 21:03 | Link #922 | |||||
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Join Date: Jan 2011
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Don't be; I think that's why you were ultimately able to build the tools. On further poking around, I think the issue I ran into is something similar to this bug in 3.11.0. Since I'm not a complete masochist, I'm not going to try another rebuild ... but maybe that'll be a good starting point if anyone else wants to try a 32-bit build under a 64-bit OS. Fun fact: the last official OSX binaries for OCaml 3.09 were built for Tiger ... which was the last 32-bit iteration of OSX. Quote:
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I have no problem with proofreading things in English, but it's frowned upon by the core team, due to the potential for rewording things in a way that doesn't match the meaning/intent of the original Japanese. That said, I've seen a fair bit of awkward wording just playing through the beginning, and I don't think a little clean-up would hurt ... but it's not something I'd be comfortable doing on the Wiki. -XCN- |
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2011-01-21, 21:28 | Link #923 | |
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Join Date: Jan 2011
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Well, to be fair, it started as the home for the core team, before they vanished into thin air. I wouldn't consider myself to be part of that team; more like a random fan who's desperate to see the project wrapped up, and knows just enough to be able to run build scripts, but not much more. There's not a whole lot I can do, besides be a cheerleader for new translators. Given the choice, I'd much rather see the core team finish this up ... but given that the last beta (r78) shipped in July 2009, you can understand why I'm skeptical of that ever happening. So I'm just doing what I can. Or, to be blunt: if this was a stalled-out open source project, it would've been long since forked by another team, finished, and released as a completed rough edit/beta. I don't know the etiquette of how that works with fan translations (or what sort of drama that would entail), but that's definitely how it works for open source code. -XCN- |
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2011-01-22, 03:32 | Link #924 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
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The good news is I think I've fixed the Python script. The bad news is I've had a closer look at the .ke files in the keksmeister_bugfix branch from SVN, and they're in some weird half-fixed state -- some of the strings have already been replaced, some haven't. Example: SEEN0414.ke already has English replacements on lines 14-15.
So if there are already places where "Whump!" or "Whuump!" have been previously inserted, they'd have to be found and replaced with extra space versions BEFORE replacing the remainder of the Japanese text. Either that, or there would need to be code to check whether there's trailing spaces before an EOL. Probably a piece of cake for anyone familiar with Python ... which I am not. Anyway, in apply_ke_translation.py, replace line 19 with: tl_dict[lines[i].rstrip('\r\n')] = lines[i+1].rstrip('\r\n') Then add extra spaces at the end of the "Whump!" and "Whuump!" lines in the kepago_translations.txt file before you run the new script. I thought about regenerating the .ke files in a disassembly and running the script on that ... but I just found out my build of rldev (the patched version from Assembla SVN) isn't disassembling properly, as the outputs are subtly different from the working versions in keksmeister_bugfix; it's adding extra lines that shouldn't be there, and it's not outputting font size tags properly. No idea why, and no real way to troubleshoot. I can still build a working SEEN.txt, thankfully. -XCN- |
2011-01-23, 00:51 | Link #925 | |||||||||
Dango Digitizer
Join Date: Sep 2010
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Spoiler for Before+after screenshots:
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Now that reminds me: There are still some bugs to fix (e.g. Fuuko prank selections aren't spaced properly, + they "spill" out of their text boxes; there are still BGM issues when gaining Fuuko Master). Time to learn Kepago...? Quote:
BTW, did you manage to get proper English .utf files from kprl? When I tried, my lines were filled with "\s{strS[1901]}" instead of translated game text. Last edited by Polarem; 2011-01-23 at 00:53. Reason: Changed my mind |
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2011-01-23, 04:31 | Link #926 | ||||||
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Join Date: Jan 2011
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I personally think it's OK to fix blatant errors like misspellings or word swaps (one of which I ran into during a play test today), but anything concerning word choice should be left to a translator (and probably * for an editor's attention). Speaking of B-T ... does that script you sent me request files from the Wiki one at a time, or all at once? Sweet! I haven't gotten to that point in the game yet, so I had no way to test it. Quote:
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Oddly enough, I was able to get a proper OCaml 3.09.3 build running on Leopard (which defaults to 32-bit builds). However, the resulting kprl build keeps choking on SEEN7500. However, the questionable kprl on Cygwin has no issues with it, and the resulting SEEN.txt seems to run fine (at least, as far as I can tell without 300 hours of testing). Basically, I have zero confidence in the toolchain, and would feel much more comfortable if the code was updated to OCaml 3.11 or 3.12 -- but that ain't happening. Quote:
-XCN- |
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2011-01-24, 02:47 | Link #927 | |||
Dango Digitizer
Join Date: Sep 2010
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When I first started I restricted myself to correcting typos (there's many of those in the After Story), but the urge to work on the awkward expressions was hard to ignore. As a precaution, for any edit that caused subtle (or massive) changes in meaning, I marked the line and retained the original in the comments for review if necessary. Ended up making many many marks though Quote:
Not sure about the rest though... I marked them in my "to-investigate" list but haven't looked at it since. Quote:
Spoiler for code comparison:
Regarding OCaml and rldev, the same Cygwin bootstrap problem drove me to Ubuntu. Even then, the tests failed on extlib's database and graphics modules, so mine's not a fully-stable build... I actually have trouble with SEEN7500 too; if you got a Ulex exception, try removing the {- -} block quotes. |
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2011-01-24, 18:00 | Link #928 | |||
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
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OK, I can see where you're coming from, and given that everyone else is AWOL, I think you're correct in addressing the awkward wording, as long as it's flagged for review. Of course, in the cases above, you had an alternate option given to you by another translator, so that's an easier call than changing up wording without knowing Japanese. What's really needed here is another translator. Not an editor, but a translator on-call, who can give us options whenever you run into really awkward lines. That would keep the project moving forward, and if an editor from core-team wants to revert the changes, they can do so later. Maybe put up a "to fix" log pointing to things that need re-translation? Quote:
I probably won't have the time to try a disassembly of an English SEEN.txt today, but I will check it as soon as I can. (I'll have to do it in both Cygwin and Leopard for comparison.) Quote:
B-T looks to be back up again. May need to look into scripts to back up the wiki for the next time it implodes. -XCN- |
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2011-01-25, 08:43 | Link #929 | ||
Dango Digitizer
Join Date: Sep 2010
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I grew up in a Chinese elementary school (so Kanji isn't too daunting) and am learning Japanese now, but haven't reached the competency required for Clannad... really felt it when I was trying to decipher the After Story. Should've started learning earlier! The wiki did have a log system going, but it's starting to look unmanageable. Inline asterisks and comments are easier to use... Ctrl+F (or grep) finds them quickly. Quote:
Tarballs. |
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2011-01-25, 09:09 | Link #930 |
Dango Digitizer
Join Date: Sep 2010
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First attempts to modify reallive.exe and graphical text... success!
Spoiler for Movie settings:
Spoiler for Kotomi's almost-epilogue:
Almost 4 months too early for Kotomi's birthday, but oh well. When translating reallive.exe, there seems to be odd limitations on how much text I can embed... write too much and the .exe blows up in size, then refuses to run. I haven't figured out the rules yet... It seems like the I'm allowed less English text than Japanese text. As for Kotomi's story text, the top-left corner of each line is defined in SEEN.txt. I can safely make each line wider, but it'll be off-center. If we want longer lines we'll need to modify the .ke code. |
2011-01-26, 03:19 | Link #931 | |||||
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
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Also, I attempted to disassemble r78 on Cygwin and Leopard. The results were flat-out disastrous -- it kept choking and aborting on each file. Curious, I tried disassembling one of my own SEEN.txt builds; it still choked on Leopard, but on Cygwin, it was slightly better; there were only a few files it couldn't decompile. HOWEVER, it was utterly unable to separate the text strings from the code, resulting in .utf files with the \str[] nonsense you mentioned, and .ke files with the dialogue still embedded in the code. So, as of right now, I have no rldev toolchain that can properly decompile its own SEEN.txt builds. However, on reading (and re-reading, and re-reading) the INSTALL readme, I did notice a couple of things I missed the first few times (specifically, that configure default encoding option.) (facepalm) However, a cursory search through the rldev manual shows only two references to default encoding -- and for the purposes of kprl, specifying "-e UTF-8" (which I always do) should do the exact same thing. A quick grep of the source code seems to confirm this; the variable "default_encoding" is only referenced in kprl and rlc; it acts as default output encoding for kprl, and default input encoding for rlc. I don't think it warrants a rebuild. Quote:
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-XCN- |
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2011-01-27, 05:45 | Link #932 | ||||
Dango Digitizer
Join Date: Sep 2010
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Anyway, there are two blocks of quotes: After <1408> and <2702>. Did you get rid of both? Quote:
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I'm getting more and more convinced that rldev is incapable of properly disassembling English SEEN files, not because the build is broken. kprl -S suggests to me that it looks for Japanese text to decide what to extract. Also, I'm able to use my build to disassemble a Japanese SEEN. |
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2011-01-27, 17:37 | Link #934 | |||
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Join Date: Jan 2011
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There are a couple of things that are telling about this bug. The first is that my Leopard toolchain was behaving correctly, because the RLdev manual clearly states that you cannot nest comments. The second is that, when playing through my freshly-built SEEN.txt from Leopard, I realized that my old build from Cygwin had at least one major bug: it was skipping one of the choices during the "rap" sequence in Sunohara's room -- a choice that was both available AND produced the correct responses later in the classroom with my Leopard rldev. Conclusion: My rldev toolchain on Cygwin is completely broken. It's producing incorrect builds, and it's doing so silently. If core-team was building using a similar toolchain, they would've never seen the compilation error. I plan on doing all my test builds on Leopard from here on out. Quote:
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On a different topic, I have a feeling that this bug is going to be hell to troubleshoot. The weird formatting on the save/load screens is somewhat minor, but having poorly formatted choices during Fuuko's route is bad news. -XCN- |
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2011-01-28, 03:29 | Link #935 | |||||
Dango Digitizer
Join Date: Sep 2010
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My rldev also borks when I put the line "{- -}" anywhere in a .utf file. But we don't have to worry about those anymore. Quote:
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It looks somewhat acceptable if the text is within the box... A possible workaround is to shorten the text, if we can't fix rlBabel. |
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2011-01-28, 04:11 | Link #936 | |
Dango Digitizer
Join Date: Sep 2010
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Thanks for the tip, Zenemis. But just so that I don't act like a stalker, I'll wait a bit more for a reply before sending him another message. |
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2011-01-28, 18:28 | Link #937 | ||||
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Join Date: Jan 2011
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So far, I've ALWAYS gotten the additional options to say stupid things, using the SEEN.TXT built with my Leopard toolchain. Arrrrgh. I suspect this is going to require a lot of Kepago debugging. Quote:
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-XCN- |
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2011-01-29, 03:26 | Link #938 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
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Since I work most of the time on Snow Leopard, I have also been playing on rlvm. I consistently get the secondary option there, even after nuking saves. I'm guessing it's a bug in rlvm. So, after a moment of panic, the Leopard toolchain does seem to be holding up. -XCN- |
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2011-01-29, 11:19 | Link #939 |
Traveler of Infinity
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Japan
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Hey, I just noticed your conversation. If you need an on-call translator, I'll volunteer to do it. Of course, I can't work with you as a full time translator due to my commitment to translating Never7, but I'm willing to work with you as a consultant of sorts if you want to.
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2011-01-29, 11:37 | Link #940 | ||
Dango Digitizer
Join Date: Sep 2010
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Ah sorry, that was a pretty vague description. From my experience in RealLive, the rap options get updated each time you dub Sunohara's tape, AND finish listening to him complain in class (no saving required). It worked for me when I returned to title screen when he said "You really know how to get on someone's nerve, don't you?!" (reading that again... should that be "nerves"?). Restarting before he finishes complaining does not trigger an update.
The first time round, the update enables the option to "say something fitting"; subsequent updates give you a different dumb rap when you choose "say something fitting" (I don't know what happens if you choose "Forget it, this is stupid", but it probably doesn't update). I found a bug in my rlvm installation too: In my Jap version, when I restarted after I the "Mongolian chop" rap, Tomoya says "Forget it, this is stupid" no matter which option I choose :-S Quote:
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Ok, I fixed 2 of the rlc compiler warnings, and unearthed a few more Japanese lines (see Wiki project page), which accounts for the rest of the warnings. I also started making use of the translation category. There was no warning for untranslated #character directives though, like the "Jet Man" in SEEN0422. "Jet Saito" seems to allude to some kind of in-joke, but none of the English discussions I read really knew what it's about... Also found some translations for the graphical text! Here and here. The latter is by DGreater1 who did lots of work on the Wiki, so I'm inclined to use it. |
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bishoujo, game patch, key, pc game, translation |
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