The Macross Universe - Analysis and Discussion

[pkang0327]

Originally Posted by squaresphere

^ on the suspended fold theory. The fold explanation states the longer they're in fold the energy demands grow at an exponential rate (i think).

You got a point. Now I'm remembering that fleets would have to make multiple folds to get to far away places. If they could just fold indefinitely, they would just make one long jump.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Been watching Macross 7 again for the long wait on Frontier 13.

I've noticed Macross 5 has 3 shelldome cities, one factory ship and one Neo Nupetiet-Vergnitzs bis class battleship.
Now I don't think all of them are with a New Macross class battleship.

Two shelldome cities are probably with Uruga class carriers.

Compared to Macross 7 fleet that has one shelldome city (Akusho island ship and forest dome also) with one New Macross class battleship, a West Point Class Macro-Training Base Ship, Riviera Resort Ship, Einstein Research Experimental Ship, Hollywood Amusement Ship, Sunnyflower Agricultural Ship, Three Star Factory Ship, a cemetery ship (Macross 7 Trash) and the recent addition in 2047 the Budoukan Concert Ship.

Compare them to Macross Frontier where they prefer a more integrated setup.
A bigger shelldome island and interconnected island ships that are big enough for biospheres and Zentradi.

These fleets are surounded by Urugas, Guantanamos and Bologneses (Zentradi variant for Macross 5)
Macross Frontier uniquely has the SMS Macross Quarter.

Macross Galaxy on the otherhand is radically different from the shelldome concept.
Probably taking a page from the Megaroad series or the original SDF-1 Macross city. Unlike the three mentioned fleets above this one is surounded by the Dulfim and Kaitos types of ships. Though it is described as New Macross class we as of yet are to make heads or tails if it has a New Macross class battleship or where it is docked.

edit:

Apparently when the Megaroads came into production the SDF class wasn't truly abandoned.

The SDF-4 Global of the 117 Reseach Fleet is one of these.

I suppose not every Megaroad had a benefit of a refit Nupetiet-Vergnitzs or Neo Nupetiet-Vergnitzs bis Class Battleship.

Thus the SDF filled the roll of a battleship flagship.

The SDF Macross class therefore is a precursor to the New Macross class.

The New Macross class being the marriage between the two concepts.

[pkang0327]

Even after the building of Megaroad 1, UN Spacy would still have a need for Battleships without cities.

Makes sense that they'd build a few SDF class ships. Building SDF Macross class ships in conjunction to Megaroad class until the New Macross replaced them.


Personally, I didn't like finding out that they made more SDF class ships. I wanted to think that the SDF-1 was unique and one of a kind.

[Wesley84]

What exactly is a Research Fleet?

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by Wesley84

What exactly is a Research Fleet?

Not a immigration fleet that's for sure.

In one of the Macross 7 Plus clips there are such fleets as recon/exploration fleets where they investigate planets.

But given that a certain Dr. Mao Nome was a member of this fleet (117th Research fleet) I suppose this fleet is science fleet. (Watch Macross Zero)

With Mao Nome's connection I postulate that this particular fleet is researching Protoculture related artifacts.

Mao's a Mayan native that has genetic links to the Protoculture Birdman aka AFOS.

If I'm right Ranka, Brera and Sheryl are her grandchildren.

Mao's entire family getting wiped out in the 177th fleet could explain the orphan status of both Ranka and Sheryl.

[Wesley84]

Didn't something like a thousand people die though? A Macross-class would seem a little undermanned with only a thousand.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Well they're not carrying a bunch of refugees or immigrants are they?

Lots of space for experiments and research.

But as we've seen in episode 5 there are survivors of the 117th fleet being consulted by Leon.

Just that it was kept hush-hush by the government.

Since the cover story is a fold accident the Global and other ships like the infested Guantanamo carrier were taken by the Vajra.

[squaresphere]

Wait wait, when did we find out that Dr. Nome was in the 177th fleet?

[TwilightHack]

Originally Posted by squaresphere

Wait wait, when did we find out that Dr. Nome was in the 177th fleet?

We haven't. The only reference we have to Dr. Nome is when Ozma was talking about destiny/fate concerning Ranka playing Mao.

If we had found out, there would have been a lot of commotion.

[squaresphere]

Thought so, something like that would be part of a big reveal in the show.

[Vulcannis]

Originally Posted by squaresphere

Wait wait, when did we find out that Dr. Nome was in the 177th fleet?

I speculated on it in the ep 10 thread but got no replies. Since then I've seen a few people mentioning it, though. At the time I was just trying to explain the irony that Ozma noted, but it still fits nicely with the new details from the last ep.

[Jimmy C]

It's obvious that Ranka has a closer connection to Mao than merely being in the same fleet. That would not be enough for Ozma's remark. Ranka's either a relative or connected to Mao's research.

[encia]

Originally Posted by Tak

That was the flagship, in an observing position, not attacking.
- Tak

Starships involved in multiple skyscraper 911 level destruction in S1 EP02
http://i328.photobucket.com/albums/l327/encia/1527.jpg

To vaporise(Latent Heat of Evaporation) 24.2mx31.9mx15.5m Laihunite based rock; It may need ~256 kiloton(assuming if my calcs and assumptions are correct).

In http://i328.photobucket.com/albums/l327/encia/1527.jpg
The Macross canon vaporised rock size larger than my estimates.

Originally Posted by 4Tran

I don't recall it ever being shown, but the Quiltra-Quelamitz Class ships should be roughly equivalent to SDF-1 in firepower. Indirectly, we can calculate the amount of firepower shown in episode 27 to get a rough idea of how much the individual Zentradi ships dish out. I suggest that if you want to discuss this point further, you're better off putting it in the Mecha thread.

About 05:58, one large beam destroys a city.
http://i328.photobucket.com/albums/l...cia/270558.jpg
WWII ~12 kiloton nuke can do a similar damage.

[JokerD]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

Not a immigration fleet that's for sure.

In one of the Macross 7 Plus clips there are such fleets as recon/exploration fleets where they investigate planets.

But given that a certain Dr. Mao Nome was a member of this fleet (117th Research fleet) I suppose this fleet is science fleet. (Watch Macross Zero)

With Mao Nome's connection I postulate that this particular fleet is researching Protoculture related artifacts.

Mao's a Mayan native that has genetic links to the Protoculture Birdman aka AFOS.

If I'm right Ranka, Brera and Sheryl are her grandchildren.

Mao's entire family getting wiped out in the 177th fleet could explain the orphan status of both Ranka and Sheryl.

Maybe it would be something like a scouting fleet, like a pathfinder sort of thing.
Something for those pretty low on the pecking order since it seems likes they are using a ship with a 50 year old (40 year old then) design as the centerpiece.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by encia

About 05:58, one large beam destroys a city.
http://i328.photobucket.com/albums/l...cia/270558.jpg
WWII ~12 kiloton nuke can do a similar damage.

You're a little bit off. What the picture depicts is a beam that causes a fireball at least large enough to engulf the city. If the city were 20km across, and the beam was as capable of producing a fireball as a nuclear bomb airburst, then the beam would have had the energy equivalent of 1550 megatons of TNT as a lower limit.

In comparison, Little Boy's 12 kiloton explosion produced a fireball of only a couple hundred meters in diameter. It was the ensuing blast and firestorm effects that ended up destroying Hiroshima (and these effects were confined to about 3.5km of the epicenter). In modern-day nuclear weapons projections, it would be impossible for any single nuclear device to destroy a city the size of New York - it'd take multiple overlapping explosions to do the same thing.

[SymphonicRain]

A single nuclear device, even if not enough to destroy New York physically, is more than enough to render the entire city useless. There are side effects of EMP blasts that is enough to fry circuits to render electronics, communication useless, radiation to make the environment too hostile to live and survive. If you include the factor of the black rain and even wind, the radius of the radiation effects could be even far bigger than thought.

So I think its a bad example to use nuclear weapon as a comparison to the beam explosion which the latter, has a relatively unknown side effects than a nuclear weapon device.

[March]

I saw fans posting some figures and just had to post.

I was wondering if any of you have a fan-made firepower analysis of the SDF-1 Macross main gun. It was calculated based on the first firing of the weapon in episode 1 of the original series. I read through it years ago on another message board and I'm still kicking myself for not saving a copy of it.

Basically, the fan calculated everything from the first firing; the beam's vaporization of the mountain range on South Ataria Island, the thousands of kilometers of water through which the beam traveled, the 280,000 kilometers out into space and the two Zentradi Pickets the two beams destroyed. I remember this fan ended up with a firepower figure of about one teraton explosive yield.

Anyone ever seen it? Or better yet, anyone capable of figuring it out themselves? Just thought I'd give it a shot, since I'd love to include it in the "For Fans Only" section of my website.

[ReddyRedWolf]

March how about trying experts at the mech and tech thread to collect data.
Usually we talk here about politics and culture in the Macross universe.

Since we are talking about nukes here how about their politically correct overtechnology version which was recently used on the Vajra.

(Copy pasta from my post in MW)

If the events of VFX-2 had an effect of decentranlization due to distrust with UN Spacy's reliability.
There is still a treaty that prohibits the use of reaction weapons as a first strike weapon.
It is illegal to even smuggle them as shown in Macross Dynamite 7.

One of the biggest issues in Macross 7 was fleet abandonment by Earth UN Spacy.
Indeed 3 fleets were almost lost is the region of space which the Protodevlin roamed.
This may account for the current independence of fleets

Glass authorizing the use of reaction weapons without any effort to negotiate with a new species will not go well diplomaticly with the rest of the fleets and colonies. That is why he was quesy in using them. Leon pushed the right buttons for him to authorize it.

The memory Lynn Minmay and Nekki Basara is still fresh in the minds of the people.

No doubt even Ranka Lee's effort in the memory of the former insubordinate 33rd fleet will remind them even more that as Basara would say "War is stupid".

Then again Grace O'Connor appears to be the antithesis of Basara. Spreading a song of destruction.

[encia]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

You're a little bit off. What the picture depicts is a beam that causes a fireball at least large enough to engulf the city. If the city were 20km across,

It's less than 20Km. i.e. you can see the building box structures. Run google maps and zoom 20km worth of city vs 2 km worth of city.

Originally Posted by 4Tran

and the beam was as capable of producing a fireball

It's more likely higher EM frequency flash (>visual) before it degrades to inferred EM frequency. A fireball is basically IR.

This is not an air burst based weapon. The beam has to impact the ground and this produces a larger fireball i.e. the EM frequency would have degraded as the energy is reflected from the ground.

Anyway,
05:57; blue beam terminates;
05:58; yellow star shaped energy spread (around 15 buildings across);
05:58: around 7 buildings across for initial spherical flash blast; initial shockwave size 30 buildings across.
05:58: The flash spreads and engulfs the entire city.

[Tak]

So I learned an interesting fact today about the Itano Circus.

Apparently, Itano and Kawamori got the idea from observing live mock dogfights, but Itano wasn't satisfied. Thus, he went through the laborious process of acquiring a bike license, then purchased his own bike, mounted at least 50 plastic tubes on it and an equivalent amount of fireworks, then cruised at really high speeds while setting the fireworks off near a river.

But, that wasn't enough, as it was taken from an offensive point of view. So Itano later got a kohai he really hated, and did the same thing to his bike. Itano ordered him to ride near the river at high speeds while setting the fireworks off so he could look at it from a defensive point of view. Rest assured, after numerous trial, errors and burns (thats a fact, he lost his t-shirt at one point due to a direct hit), the Itano Circus was born...

- Tak (Well, that was random)