Gundam Seed/Seed Destiny General Discussion Thread

[monster]

If anyone can make Kira mad, it's Athrun. But man, Kira is too soft with Athrun. He should've dealt with Athrun much earlier.

[Aquaman OS]

Was there really a good reason for Shinn to smash the bridge? The ship was already dead in the water, sinking and ON FIRE. All of the crew but one guy abandoned ship.

[The American Average]

its a raging Shinn you really think, he was thinking. all he was thinking was "Shinn smash!"=p.

now who shot Reys arm off in the episode? he lost his left arm due to a murasame, and then later he just lost his right arm. did we see who shot him? was it Kira i don't think it was....

[monster]

Originally Posted by The American Average

now who shot Reys arm off in the episode? he lost his left arm due to a murasame, and then later he just lost his right arm. did we see who shot him? was it Kira i don't think it was....

Why not Kira? The Freedom was firing in the scene right before the Zaku losing its right arm. Beside, who else was targeting extremities?

[Blazer-X]

Originally Posted by I Fail at Life

Noticable addittions...

- HD'fied Freedom when using the ciws to shoot down the missiles Shinn shot at Cagalli, when Freedom swings at Impulse and when Freedom swings at Chaos.

- HD'fied Strike Rouge Ootori (Phoenix), with some added scenes of it maneuvering.

- A slight character expression altered.

Everything else stayed relatively the same.

Think they also updated Saviour vs Freedom for a couple of scenes, but kept majority of the battle, including Freedom chopping up Saviour the same.

Kira's expression switched from "getting serious and giving judgment to his friend" to more of a "I feel uneasy having to do this". Makes him more... human.

[Destined_Fate]

Shinn smashed because he has great power now but wasn't taught how to control it well enough because Athrun has been slacking.

Athrun needs to understand that beating Shinn for doing his job doesn't make him a good teacher and if anything this will make Shinn's anger management issues even worse.

That and they "really" angered him when they should have known better. It's also war. The more enemies he kills the less likely they'll fight back and kill possibly kill his allies.

[Washu-Chan]

As one poster once said:

"If you were Kira Yamato's sister, crying justifies everything!!"

[Destined_Fate]

If only my tears could solve and justify everything...

"I let a known terrorist escape my country and into space to kill thousands more because I defended him from the law! But it's okay and justified because I cried a bit over it and thus I'm still a good person."

-

Great on Shinn. After Lunamaria was taken out he made them pay in blood, first taking out those that destroyed her Gunner ZAKU Warrior and than took out the rest of the ORB Fleet in a matter of minutes.

[zeroexia]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

If only my tears could solve and justify everything...

"I let a known terrorist escape my country and into space to kill thousands more because I defended him from the law! But it's okay and justified because I cried a bit over it and thus I'm still a good person."

-

Great on Shinn. After Lunamaria was taken out he made them pay in blood, first taking out those that destroyed h er Gunner ZAKU Warrior and than took out the rest of the ORB Fleet in a matter of minutes.

Which terrorist is that? Forgive but it's been a couple years since I watched Destiny.

Anyway, while watching this episode, I just realized how stupid Athrun and the Minerva team was. The commander Murasame was going to kill the entire bridge if Freedom didn't show up. But they still decide to be antagonistic against the people that just saved their lives.

Additionally if Athrun didn't keep Freedom from entering the battle, it's extremely likely the heavy causalities on both sides wouldn't have occurred. I mean the previous battle showed that. It was the exact same battle in the sense that the Minerva was being swarmed by Orb and the EF.

Honestly, that's what Kira should have yelled at Athrun for, not "Cagilli is crying". Kira could have prevented a good deal of those deaths. The condition of the Minerva after this battle without Kira's aid is proof enough.

On Shinn, the beginning of his mental instability has started. His raging is unsettling for a protagonist to have. And of course he killed the same guy that actually helped him.

[Aquaman OS]

He's probably talking about when Djbril gets away from Orb because the Clyne Faction stopped Zaft from taking the place over to stop him. And then he goes and kills some faceless Plant people we don't care about (seriously nobody that even a main character knew in passing died there. At least Athrun's mother died at Junius Seven.) and it's forgotten about 5 minutes later.

I guess it says alot about Destiny's writing that thousands of people could die and I could honestly not care less about them. If anything I was relieved it was Plant people that died and not Orb, because at least we see Orb civilians frequently and they look like good people. All we see of Plant people in the minute of footage we get of them all season are angry mobs and people blindly worshipping Durandal.

[Washu-Chan]

Originally Posted by zeroexia

And of course he killed the same guy that actually helped him.

Could it be that Shinn was unaware that the guy who saved him was the ship's commander?

[monster]

Originally Posted by zeroexia

Additionally if Athrun didn't keep Freedom from entering the battle, it's extremely likely the heavy causalities on both sides wouldn't have occurred. I mean the previous battle showed that. It was the exact same battle in the sense that the Minerva was being swarmed by Orb and the EF.

Honestly, that's what Kira should have yelled at Athrun for, not "Cagilli is crying".

People pay too much attention to the "crying" part. It's not about the crying, it's about why she's crying.

Basically, Athrun is telling them to leave to try to convince the Orb government to pull their troops back, but in the meantime, Orb soldiers will still be attacking the Minerva and vice versa. Not to mention there is no guarantee that Cagalli will be able to convince the Orb government anyway.

Kira only mentioned the crying part because he's talking to Athrun. Kira expected Athrun to understand Cagalli better than anyone else.

[zeroexia]

Originally Posted by Washu-Chan

Could it be that Shinn was unaware that the guy who saved him was the ship's commander?

He didn't know, of course. Even though there's a good second of the Impulse looking at the bridge seeing the commander so that it would be plausible that Shinn could at least have seen his face.

But then again even if he knew, the rampage he was in wouldn't have stopped anyway and he would probably have killed him anyway.

I was just noting his status as protagonist started to drastically decline at this point. He killed an objectively good person in a rage mode. Usually the protagonist, the good guy types at least, regret their actions they did in the rage mode. More so if they hurt or kill someone that was good.

Shinn never has such a moment. He becomes a "bad guy" by continuing to be a enraged killing machine. And any moment he stops to think on his actions, he's redirected by Durundal of Rey, reducing him to being a puppet. A bad direction for a protagonist.

[zeroexia]

Originally Posted by monster

People pay too much attention to the "crying" part. It's not about the crying, it's about why she's crying.

Basically, Athrun is telling them to leave to try to convince the Orb government to pull their troops back, but in the meantime, Orb soldiers will still be attacking the Minerva and vice versa. Not to mention there is no guarantee that Cagalli will be able to convince the Orb government anyway.

Kira only mentioned the crying part because he's talking to Athrun. Kira expected Athrun to understand Cagalli better than anyone else.

I understand that. I understood that Kira meant that he doesn't get why Athrun would be against Cagalli trying to stop Orb soldiers from dying and stopping him from helping her. And in the eyes of Kira, Athrun was blaming everything on Orb and Cagalli.

And the remastered version actually makes this scene a bit better in that Cagalli was flying to the Orb soldiers and was in danger so Kira tried to fly to her too but Athrun was still in the way so he was pissed off at Athrun.

I just personally felt that using Cagalli is crying as a premise for his argument isn't very good writing. Or to be accurate, the dialogue on Kira's part wasn't well crafted.

The intention is received but the method of transmission is lacking.

[Destined_Fate]

Originally Posted by zeroexia

Which terrorist is that? Forgive but it's been a couple years since I watched Destiny.

Anyway, while watching this episode, I just realized how stupid Athrun and the Minerva team was. The commander Murasame was going to kill the entire bridge if Freedom didn't show up. But they still decide to be antagonistic against the people that just saved their lives.

Additionally if Athrun didn't keep Freedom from entering the battle, it's extremely likely the heavy causalities on both sides wouldn't have occurred. I mean the previous battle showed that. It was the exact same battle in the sense that the Minerva was being swarmed by Orb and the EF.

Honestly, that's what Kira should have yelled at Athrun for, not "Cagilli is crying". Kira could have prevented a good deal of those deaths. The condition of the Minerva after this battle without Kira's aid is proof enough.

On Shinn, the beginning of his mental instability has started. His raging is unsettling for a protagonist to have. And of course he killed the same guy that actually helped him.

Kira's only good deed this episode was appearing so Shinn can go SEED and take out the entire ORB Fleet, kill Auel, and force the Feds to retreat out of fear of his prowess. Furthermore Shinn didn't know he killed the guy that helped him, for all he knows that guy retired or was somewhere else. How's he supposed to know, during the heat of combat, that one of the many ships he's sinking is commanded by the guy that helped him?

Another thing is that the Minerva would never have been in this situation in the first place if Kira hadn't bothered them earlier which is mentioned in this episode.

[Gundamx]

Originally Posted by zeroexia

I understand that. I understood that Kira meant that he doesn't get why Athrun would be against Cagalli trying to stop Orb soldiers from dying and stopping him from helping her. And in the eyes of Kira, Athrun was blaming everything on Orb and Cagalli.

And the remastered version actually makes this scene a bit better in that Cagalli was flying to the Orb soldiers and was in danger so Kira tried to fly to her too but Athrun was still in the way so he was pissed off at Athrun.

I just personally felt that using Cagalli is crying as a premise for his argument isn't very good writing. Or to be accurate, the dialogue on Kira's part wasn't well crafted.

The intention is received but the method of transmission is lacking.

Kira was trying to convince friends not random people
Kira don't need to say many word to let him understand Cagalli heart.

If he said that to Shin or any other person =Than yes it was stupid.

Though I like how people said that Kira always said that to justified his fight even though he only said it once to his best friends

[zeroexia]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Kira's only good deed this episode was appearing so Shinn can go SEED and take out the entire ORB Fleet, kill Auel, and force the Feds to retreat out of fear of his prowess. Furthermore Shinn didn't know he killed the guy that helped him, for all he knows that guy retired or was somewhere else. How's he supposed to know, during the heat of combat, that one of the many ships he's sinking is commanded by the guy that helped him?

Another thing is that the Minerva would never have been in this situation in the first place if Kira hadn't bothered them earlier which is mentioned in this episode.

The reason that's all Kira did was because Athrun was preventing him from doing any further. As I said before, there's no reason he wouldn't be able to prevent most of the causalities as previously.

And him killing the commander isn't Shinn's fault although I'm pretty sure the Impulse's cameras would have been able to have seen the commander considering the Impulse looks at the bridge for over 5 seconds. However it does show a decrease in his "good guy protagonist" status in doing that.

Minerva would still have been attacked regardless of what Kira did before hand. The EF and Orb were always out to get them, waiting for them to leave port. Besides the EF fleet itself wasn't greatly damaged with Orb always receiving most of the damage due to being used as shield. So even if Orb's fleet was destroyed by Minerva in the first engagement, there would still be an EF fleet to face.

Besides the damage to the Minerva from the previous battle was repaired.

That's irrelevant anyway considering the Minerva would likely have been destroyed if Kira wasn't there. It's true regardless of what happened before that this time Kira saved the Minerva.

[zeroexia]

Originally Posted by Gundamx

Kira was trying to convince friends not random people
Kira don't need to say many word to let him understand Cagalli heart.

If he said that to Shin or any other person =Than yes it was stupid.

Though I like how people said that Kira always said that to justified his fight even though he only said it once to his best friends

I didn't say that was wrong of him to say that. I'm saying that the writing for this dialogue was bad enough that people continue to use as an example of Destiny's flaws.

I'm blaming the writer not Kira.

[monster]

Originally Posted by zeroexia

I just personally felt that using Cagalli is crying as a premise for his argument isn't very good writing. Or to be accurate, the dialogue on Kira's part wasn't well crafted.

The intention is received but the method of transmission is lacking.

If Kira was talking to Shinn, or anyone else not directly related to Cagalli, then yeah, it wouldn't make sense to bring up her crying. But Kira is talking to Athrun, and that makes it personal. The method of transmission is appropriate given Athrun's relationship to Cagalli. Kira is pointing out that Cagalli is hurting and, more importantly, why she's hurting.

Originally Posted by zeroexia

I didn't say that was wrong of him to say that.

If it's not wrong, then why do you think it's bad writing?

[The American Average]

Originally Posted by monster

If it's not wrong, then why do you think it's bad writing?

lol talking like that for Destiny, the show where Kira and co look like they're in the wrong making everything worse but then we find out they're right all along.