AnimeSuki Forums

Ithekro · 2017-05-02, 23:35

While going into concepts about 15 inch guns vs 12 inch guns comes into the issue of number of guns, that shouldn't be an issue with the Fuso or Ise classes 14 inch guns, which are equal in number on the broadside to Gangut's 12"s.

As for armor, Gangut was designed to fight the previous war, which was just before the Dreadnought revolutionized naval warfare. So Gangut is designed to combat Japanese pre-dreadnoughts and other ships with 12 inch guns or those that have a tendany to use HE shells. They also would do well against Pre-Jutland British AP shells, since those had rather poor penetrator tips compared to the Germans or later British shells.

By World War II standards? The phrase, "dead meat" comes to mind. The only ships with comprable armaments that might be resisted by Gangut's armor scheme, would be the early 1930s French and German battlecruisers (with their 13 and 11 inch guns in smaller numers), and the likes of USS Arkansas, which had similar numbers of 12 inch guns.

Still, a semi-loli Babushka, to take some heat off Kongo, is fine too.

AC-Phoenix · 2017-05-03, 07:11

^- Pretty much that yeah. No calculator needed for that.
The issue I have with her guns is that they basically go 'Oh she has more barrels, than Bisko - should have the same firepower oh and lets give it additional armor, despite having a thinner armor than Bisko's turrets.)
And the armor wouldn't even bother me as you can say 'K the gangut has no towering turrets, so lets give her that' (weak explaination, but acceptable imho) Plus Bismarcks turrets basically keep themself in place through their own weight

The true probelm is that more barrels don't automatically amount to having the same firepower as a ship with less turrets but stronger cannons.
The turrets don't make it through armor as well as Bismarcks.
And while the Gangut may be a beautiful ship in its own right, it simply shouldn't be able to competer with later ships under normal cirumstances. .
Point is no matter what ones says 12 inch guns stay 12 inch guns even if you 'kai' them, they still won't get magically twice as strong.

That being said, that is of course for normal guns. a 12 inch Railgun would be a totally different chapter.

Edit: Sidenote: the number of turrets being the same on Ise and Gangut is only partially correct, since two turrets were removed in favor of the flight deck.

Kakurin · 2017-05-03, 07:16

Good god, just admit your displeasure that they added a Russian instead of a USN ship and quit your whining. There's enough "unrealistic" stuff in Kancolle already, where was your outrage then?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ithekro

As for armor, Gangut was designed to fight the previous war, which was just before the Dreadnought revolutionized naval warfare. So Gangut is designed to combat Japanese pre-dreadnoughts and other ships with 12 inch guns or those that have a tendany to use HE shells. They also would do well against Pre-Jutland British AP shells, since those had rather poor penetrator tips compared to the Germans or later British shells.

The Gangut was actually Russia's first dreadnought.

Sheba · 2017-05-03, 07:38

Gangut IS useful. For early event maps that allow BBs but no slow BBs. Think Kinugasa, Kako and Furutaka who are the CAs to go when you dont want to lose out the Myoukou, Maya, Choukai and Purin to shiplocking.

AC-Phoenix · 2017-05-03, 07:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakurin-san

Good god, just admit your displeasure that they added a Russian instead of a USN ship and quit your whining. There's enough "unrealistic" stuff in Kancolle already, where was your outrage then?

I'm not whining I'm comnplaining -

Aside from genre savic unrealistic stuff: I wasn't around when the Fusou got their K2, that aside their buff is overall still less. ~ So yeah. I also remember having made notions with the F6F-3s AA, and that isn't remotely as bad as the buff those 12 inchers get >> - Say its whining all you want but no other ship gets buffed that much.
And again, no I have nothing agaisnt a russian ship being added in general, would have personally preferred a cruiser though

In terms of BB however there were other choices that are also more on the level of the other BBs in the game without gving them a a 100% buff.

E: another example where I'm pretty sure I said something about where the cranes or Hiryuu and Souryuus stats vs Kagas and Akagis; armor and HP in particular if I remember that right.

Adn you can bet i'd make the same comments too if they had given those stats to a Wyoming's Turrets.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheba

Gangut IS useful. For early event maps that allow BBs but no slow BBs. Think Kinugasa, Kako and Furutaka who are the CAs to go when you dont want to lose out the Myoukou, Maya, Choukai and Purin to shiplocking.

Aside from it apparently not being fixated that she will be an FBB, yeah thats the ironic point about her, especially considering how Mutsu is called snail an faster

Edit: and even if her ship stats ar eno so great now, she'd be useful alone for her guns already as you can use them on the kongou's

E/:
Are there any news regarding that 5th lock btw?
Because Verny really wants to go to E5

Estavali · 2017-05-03, 10:29

The opening of E4 and E5 has been postponed to 02:30 JST. In the meantime:

Images

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E5 is named "Witch of the North". Another new high-ranking Abyssal yet to be revealed?

Quote:

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

E/:
Are there any news regarding that 5th lock btw?
Because Verny really wants to go to E5

No tag there so it could be a open-to-all map.

Ithekro · 2017-05-03, 12:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakurin-san

The Gangut was actually Russia's first dreadnought.

I am aware of this. The armor scheme was designed to fight at the Battle of Tsushima, as that was the lesion the Russians learned.

AC-Phoenix · 2017-05-03, 13:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Estavali

The opening of E4 and E5 has been postponed to 02:30 JST. In the meantime:

Images

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

E5 is named "Witch of the North". Another new high-ranking Abyssal yet to be revealed?

No tag there so it could be a open-to-all map.

Yeah there are 3 arrows though and 4 tags. or its a light blue tag :/

LoweGear · 2017-05-03, 13:05

Images

Oktyabrskaya Revolyutsiya

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Images

Gangut Dva

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Images

Etorofu

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Gangut Dva looks a lot better than the previous versions of the ship, and Etorofu looks more like a Warship Girls character.

Ithekro · 2017-05-03, 13:08

They missed out on the distinctive Soviet curved funnel. But damn that's a lot of little guns.

Also cleavage.

LoweGear · 2017-05-03, 13:22

Also, Gangut Dva, if you haven't noticed from her CG, has torpedos, and it's reflected in her stats.

Ithekro · 2017-05-03, 13:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoweGear

Also, Gangut Dva, if you haven't noticed from her CG, has torpedos, and it's reflected in her stats.

Well that cleavage demands something to put in them.....

But the submerged tubes being represented is good.

AC-Phoenix · 2017-05-03, 13:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ithekro

They missed out on the distinctive Soviet curved funnel. But damn that's a lot of little guns.

Also cleavage.

In exchange the Northern hime has her other funnel very visibly... as a crown on her head lol.
Also is it just me or does that darkeened look on the Northern Water hjime look like she is pouting a bit?

E: Actually nvm the funnel is separate. No idea what that crown thing is supposed to be then.. oh wait... is that supposed to be a WWI mast?

Edit2:
Deng... They actually count that slow-poke a FBB now

(slow FBB though, so maybe placeholder?)
She also has a lot of armor and luck...Wait is she a drop ship?

e3: Assuming 2 of their best weapons equipped (without upgrades, or additional equipment)
The Best-fit Yasen powers would now be
Hotels 199
Bismarck 169
Iowa 163
Gangut Dva 156
Warspite 144

At least she fits in nicely, although I would have preferred her having a higher Torp stat - given the OP cannons it seems fair though.
I'm too tired to discuss her other stats atm and will leave it at that the final boss is either a real pain in the ass or that she is a drop ship.

I'll definitely safe Yamato and Iowa for the last map on this...

LoweGear · 2017-05-03, 13:46

Another odd thing about Gangut: while she is classified as a Fast Battleship (FBB), her listed speed is "Slow".

So she's a... Slow FBB?

Ithekro · 2017-05-03, 13:53

Contradictory Russian concepts?

LoweGear · 2017-05-03, 14:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Contradictory Russian concepts?

More like Kancolle's early game mechanics implementation finally catching up to it and biting it in the ass - basically, they've now come across a situation where they have a ship that's supposed to have the game properties of a Fast Battleship, and yet the ship it's based on is supposed to be slow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

Deng... They actually count that slow-poke a FBB now

(slow FBB though, so maybe placeholder?)

These are the stats as taken from the now complete set of data in the recent update, so it's definitely not a placeholder.

AC-Phoenix · 2017-05-03, 14:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoweGear

Another odd thing about Gangut: while she is classified as a Fast Battleship (FBB), her listed speed is "Slow".

So she's a... Slow FBB?

Maybe a placeholder but yeah thats what I thought too when I read that - she isn't fast at all though so yeah...

E/

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoweGear

These are the stats as taken from the now complete set of data in the recent update, so it's definitely not a placeholder.

You misunderstood me there. I meant that the word FBB might be a placeholder for now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Contradictory Russian concepts?

Did someone say contradiction?

Images

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Cyprene · 2017-05-03, 14:56

People are clearing E5, is the full lock and reward information available anywhere yet?

I need my catapult...

AC-Phoenix · 2017-05-03, 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyprene

People are clearing E5, is the full lock and reward information available anywhere yet?

I need my catapult...

This very question is what is currently keeping me to make e1 easier for me by replacing my lv 50 libeccio with Verny.

Cyprene · 2017-05-03, 15:03

I didn't particularly want that crappy interceptor, so I just did it on Medium with some junk ships in their 30s and 50s.

I'm gonna be pissed if Naganami and Makigumo determine routes this time...

2017-05-02, 23:35	Link #20061
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	While going into concepts about 15 inch guns vs 12 inch guns comes into the issue of number of guns, that shouldn't be an issue with the Fuso or Ise classes 14 inch guns, which are equal in number on the broadside to Gangut's 12"s. As for armor, Gangut was designed to fight the previous war, which was just before the Dreadnought revolutionized naval warfare. So Gangut is designed to combat Japanese pre-dreadnoughts and other ships with 12 inch guns or those that have a tendany to use HE shells. They also would do well against Pre-Jutland British AP shells, since those had rather poor penetrator tips compared to the Germans or later British shells. By World War II standards? The phrase, "dead meat" comes to mind. The only ships with comprable armaments that might be resisted by Gangut's armor scheme, would be the early 1930s French and German battlecruisers (with their 13 and 11 inch guns in smaller numers), and the likes of USS Arkansas, which had similar numbers of 12 inch guns. Still, a semi-loli Babushka, to take some heat off Kongo, is fine too. __________________ Last edited by Ithekro; 2017-05-03 at 02:50.

2017-05-03, 07:11	Link #20062
AC-Phoenix Detective Join Date: Aug 2010 Age: 36	^- Pretty much that yeah. No calculator needed for that. The issue I have with her guns is that they basically go 'Oh she has more barrels, than Bisko - should have the same firepower oh and lets give it additional armor, despite having a thinner armor than Bisko's turrets.) And the armor wouldn't even bother me as you can say 'K the gangut has no towering turrets, so lets give her that' (weak explaination, but acceptable imho) Plus Bismarcks turrets basically keep themself in place through their own weight The true probelm is that more barrels don't automatically amount to having the same firepower as a ship with less turrets but stronger cannons. The turrets don't make it through armor as well as Bismarcks. And while the Gangut may be a beautiful ship in its own right, it simply shouldn't be able to competer with later ships under normal cirumstances. . Point is no matter what ones says 12 inch guns stay 12 inch guns even if you 'kai' them, they still won't get magically twice as strong. That being said, that is of course for normal guns. a 12 inch Railgun would be a totally different chapter. Edit: Sidenote: the number of turrets being the same on Ise and Gangut is only partially correct, since two turrets were removed in favor of the flight deck. __________________ Those who forget about the past are condemned to repeat it - Santayana Sidenote: I'm seemingly too dumb for my current keyboard, so if you see the same character twice in a row, when it doesn't belong there just ignore it.

2017-05-03, 13:05	Link #20069
LoweGear Secret Society BLANKET Graphic Designer Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: 3 times the passion of normal flamenco	Images Oktyabrskaya Revolyutsiya Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload? Images Gangut Dva Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload? Images Etorofu Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload? Gangut Dva looks a lot better than the previous versions of the ship, and Etorofu looks more like a Warship Girls character. __________________ Against all the evil that hell can conjure, all wickedness that mankind can produce... We will send unto them, only you.

2017-05-03, 13:08	Link #20070
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	They missed out on the distinctive Soviet curved funnel. But damn that's a lot of little guns. Also cleavage. __________________

2017-05-03, 13:22	Link #20071
LoweGear Secret Society BLANKET Graphic Designer Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: 3 times the passion of normal flamenco	Also, Gangut Dva, if you haven't noticed from her CG, has torpedos, and it's reflected in her stats. __________________ Against all the evil that hell can conjure, all wickedness that mankind can produce... We will send unto them, only you.

2017-05-03, 07:38	Link #20064
Sheba RUN, YOU FOOLS! Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Formerly Iwakawa base and Chaldea. Now Teyvat, the Astral Express & the Outpost Age: 44	Gangut IS useful. For early event maps that allow BBs but no slow BBs. Think Kinugasa, Kako and Furutaka who are the CAs to go when you dont want to lose out the Myoukou, Maya, Choukai and Purin to shiplocking.

2017-05-03, 13:46	Link #20074
LoweGear Secret Society BLANKET Graphic Designer Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: 3 times the passion of normal flamenco	Another odd thing about Gangut: while she is classified as a Fast Battleship (FBB), her listed speed is "Slow". So she's a... Slow FBB? __________________ Against all the evil that hell can conjure, all wickedness that mankind can produce... We will send unto them, only you.

2017-05-03, 13:53	Link #20075
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Contradictory Russian concepts? __________________

2017-05-03, 14:56	Link #20078
Cyprene Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006	People are clearing E5, is the full lock and reward information available anywhere yet? I need my catapult...

2017-05-03, 15:03	Link #20080
Cyprene Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006	I didn't particularly want that crappy interceptor, so I just did it on Medium with some junk ships in their 30s and 50s. I'm gonna be pissed if Naganami and Makigumo determine routes this time...