Character Discussion - Kallen

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by Fruit Punch Samurai

She already did! Episode 18, I think she is in due for her own thrashing right now especially if she hadn't gotten the full scope of Zero's Requiem by then.

She trashed him in a vastly superior mech under orders, not in an even battle. In a relatively even battle, she's still down by a point, and Suzaku's always getting away in their fights. He needs to go down, because like always he'll be in the way out of stubborn dedication to duty.

[Fruit Punch Samurai]

Originally Posted by NoLongerSane

I am really wondering how the writers are going to finnally conclude this bizarre relationship that Suzaku and Kallen have? Does anyone recall their last fight, before the upgrade of the Lancelot, he was going to take on her upgraded Garren. Gino tries to intervine on behalf of Suzaku and become Kallen's opponent, and her reaction to that was somewhat odd. She had this wicked smile like they were no longer "exclusive" and that another pilot had taken interest.

Like this:

Good god why does that turn me on?

Originally Posted by morbosfist

She trashed him in a vastly superior mech under orders, not in an even battle. In a relatively even battle, she's still down by a point, and Suzaku's always getting away in their fights. He needs to go down, because like always he'll be in the way out of stubborn dedication to duty.

Meh...she still held her own in the season finale despite the Lancelot recieving an upgrade beforehand not only that but all this season she has been getting a lot of leeway (mid flight upgrades being captured in order to receive more upgrades) you can't disagree with that

[youngde]

Originally Posted by NoLongerSane

I am really wondering how the writers are going to finnally conclude this bizarre relationship that Suzaku and Kallen have? Does anyone recall their last fight, before the upgrade of the Lancelot, he was going to take on her upgraded Garren. Gino tries to intervine on behalf of Suzaku and become Kallen's opponent, and her reaction to that was somewhat odd. She had this wicked smile like they were no longer "exclusive" and that another pilot had taken interest.

Personally, I would hope that if Suzaku could somehow revert to the way he was in the first season, they could reconcile eventually. I've always interpreted Kallen's "I hate you" to Suzaku as being more "I hate what you've become." And she did sound a little sad when she said goodbye when she was about to kill him.

Admittably, initially after finding out they were on opposite sides, she did try to kill him (due to misinformation from Diethard), but when she found out they weren't going to kill him, she was releaved. Even after they both knew, they agreed to remain friends while at school. If Suzaku hadn't lost it when Euphie died, they probably would still be friends...problem is all the crap that's gone on between them since then.

Even so, Suzaku did seem geniuinely sorry for what he did to Kallen and didn't want to fight her when she was defending Zero, so on his side there might be hope. Kallen, I'm pretty sure, while a part of her may want to reconcile, doesn't trust him anymore and probably can't reconcile with him unless he goes back to season 1 Suzaku.

Probably not going to happen in series, but maybe if there was an epilouge.

[Fruit Punch Samurai]

Originally Posted by youngde

Personally, I would hope that if Suzaku could somehow revert to the way he was in the first season, they could reconcile eventually. I've always interpreted Kallen's "I hate you" to Suzaku as being more "I hate what you've become." And she did sound a little sad when she said goodbye when she was about to kill him.

Admittably, initially after finding out they were on opposite sides, she did try to kill him (due to misinformation from Diethard), but when she found out they weren't going to kill him, she was releaved. Even after they both knew, they agreed to remain friends while at school. If Suzaku hadn't lost it when Euphie died, they probably would still be friends...problem is all the crap that's gone on between them since then.

Even so, Suzaku did seem geniuinely sorry for what he did to Kallen and didn't want to fight her when she was defending Zero, so on his side there might be hope. Kallen, I'm pretty sure, while a part of her may want to reconcile, doesn't trust him anymore and probably can't reconcile with him unless he goes back to season 1 Suzaku.

Probably not going to happen in series, but maybe if there was an epilouge.

If they're alive that is, I have a feeling that one of them might not make it pass that battle alive .

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by Fruit Punch Samurai

Meh...she still held her own in the season finale despite the Lancelot recieving an upgrade beforehand not only that but all this season she has been getting a lot of leeway (mid flight upgrades being captured in order to receive more upgrades) you can't disagree with that

No I can't, but I consider it only fair. Suzaku got his upgrade before her in that first fight and they were going to give him the Guren when he had the Lancelot Albion coming.

Originally Posted by youngde

Even so, Suzaku did seem geniuinely sorry for what he did to Kallen and didn't want to fight her when she was defending Zero, so on his side there might be hope. Kallen, I'm pretty sure, while a part of her may want to reconcile, doesn't trust him anymore and probably can't reconcile with him unless he goes back to season 1 Suzaku.

I disagree that he didn't want to fight her. He wanted her out of the way, and tried to blast Zero with the intention of either getting her out of the way or hitting his mark. If he didn't want to fight her, he'd have let Gino handle her.

[prototype_sky]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

She trashed him in a vastly superior mech under orders, not in an even battle. In a relatively even battle, she's still down by a point, and Suzaku's always getting away in their fights. He needs to go down, because like always he'll be in the way out of stubborn dedication to duty.

If that is the case then Suzaku's advantages at the end of season 1 don't count as well then.

Suzaku isn't that stubborn you've seen him bend the rules quite a bit

Not shooting lulu when ordered in Season 1
Not arresting kallen in Season 1 when he knew about her double life
Not killing all the zero imposters
Protecting Zero from Crazy Nina
Offering to help Lulu with the nunnally situation
Assassination attempt on charles

[youngde]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

I disagree that he didn't want to fight her. He wanted her out of the way, and tried to blast Zero with the intention of either getting her out of the way or hitting his mark. If he didn't want to fight her, he'd have let Gino handle her.

I guess I just interpret that scene differently. In response to Gino asking to switch opponents, Suzaku seemed to indicate that Kallen wouldn't allow it. It just seems to me that it was Kallen who wasn't going to let Suzaku off the hook, rather than the other way around.

[Fruit Punch Samurai]

Originally Posted by prototype_sky

If that is the case then Suzaku's advantages at the end of season 1 don't count as well then.

Suzaku isn't that stubborn you've seen him bend the rules quite a bit

Not shooting lulu when ordered in Season 1
Not arresting kallen in Season 1 when he knew about her double life
Not killing all the zero imposters
Protecting Zero from Crazy Nina
Offering to help Lulu with the nunnally situation
Assassination attempt on charles

I agree with everything accept for the Crazy Nina since he was willing to let her go after she mentioned Euphie's name

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by prototype_sky

If that is the case then Suzaku's advantages at the end of season 1 don't count as well then.

He could fly, which allowed him to nearly gun her down after sacrificing an arm.

Originally Posted by prototype_sky

Suzaku isn't that stubborn you've seen him bend the rules quite a bit

Not shooting lulu when ordered in Season 1
Not arresting kallen in Season 1 when he knew about her double life
Not killing all the zero imposters
Protecting Zero from Crazy Nina
Offering to help Lulu with the nunnally situation
Assassination attempt on charles

The season 1 instances were when his morals weren't falling apart after Euphy's death. Kallen he just thought he could win over. The Zero impostors he let go because of Nunnally and Euphy. He'd have shot them otherwise. He let Nina go after she called him on his loyalties. He only offered to help by using Nunnally to get Lulu to act by his methods. It wasn't genuine help, he played him like a fiddle. Finally, assassinating Charles was when he was broken from nuking Tokyo.

[NoLongerSane]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

I disagree that he didn't want to fight her. He wanted her out of the way, and tried to blast Zero with the intention of either getting her out of the way or hitting his mark. If he didn't want to fight her, he'd have let Gino handle her.

I was under the impression that the reason that he willing fought the upgraded Gurren was that he was claiming responsibility for her. As for him firing at her, it was under the live geass command. Plus, was he not going to let her kill him before the command overrided his will.

Also, Fruit Punch Samurai, thanks for the visual. I am amazed of some of the facial expressions that are given to some of the characters in this show. Lol, I am sad to say this, but Monica was given an odd facial expression that looked more like recieving a pink slip rather than being killed.

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by NoLongerSane

I was under the impression that the reason that he willing fought the upgraded Gurren was that he was claiming responsibility for her. As for him firing at her, it was under the live geass command. Plus, was he not going to let her kill him before the command overrided his will.

He didn't claim responsibility. He was under the impression that she wouldn't let him leave. Then he just got it stuck in his head that he had to get Zero rather than pay attention to the people telling him he was fucked. As for firing on her, when he first tried to Hadron blast her is what I'm referring to, not when he fired the nuke. Finally, yes, he was going to let her kill him. He thought it was his atonement to die by her hand.

[Fruit Punch Samurai]

Originally Posted by NoLongerSane

Also, Fruit Punch Samurai, thanks for the visual. I am amazed of some of the facial expressions that are given to some of the characters in this show. Lol, I am sad to say this, but Monica was given an odd facial expression that looked more like recieving a pink slip rather than being killed.

Like this:

[NoLongerSane]

Originally Posted by Fruit Punch Samurai

Like this:

Lol, saddly yes.

As for Kallen, I really do hope that the writers have a definate course for her character to follow.

[prototype_sky]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

He could fly, which allowed him to nearly gun her down after sacrificing an arm.

The season 1 instances were when his morals weren't falling apart after Euphy's death. Kallen he just thought he could win over. The Zero impostors he let go because of Nunnally and Euphy. He'd have shot them otherwise. He let Nina go after she called him on his loyalties. He only offered to help by using Nunnally to get Lulu to act by his methods. It wasn't genuine help, he played him like a fiddle. Finally, assassinating Charles was when he was broken from nuking Tokyo.

A stubborn person shouldn't be so indecisive They stick to their guns no matter what so the outcome would've been

kill his best friend
wouldn't have been so conflicted over executing Tudo and the JLF
have the brittainnian equivalent of the ATF storm kallen's home
kill all the Zero's the fewer the better
kallen would have killed crazy Nina

He has been pretty fickle the entire show being conflicted between serving the brittainnia's and looking out for the japanese

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by prototype_sky

A stubborn person shouldn't be so indecisive They stick to their guns no matter what so the outcome would've been

kill his best friend
wouldn't have been so conflicted over executing Tudo and the JLF
have the brittainnian equivalent of the ATF storm kallen's home
kill all the Zero's the fewer the better
kallen would have killed crazy Nina

He has been pretty fickle the entire show being conflicted between serving the brittainnia's and looking out for the japanese

A stubborn person can be swayed occasionally. Doesn't mean they're not stubborn, just means there are things that get them.

He made leeway for his friends, but that changed when Euphy died. He was conflicted over killing Tohdoh and the JLF, but if he had the chance to do it, what would have come of it I wonder? He didn't kill the Zeroes because, the public fiasco of such a thing aside, it is not what Nunnally or Euphy wanted. She would have been pissed if he had ordered it.

As for him being fickle, in season 1 he is completely insensitive to the Japanese. All he cared about was his ideals, and if that meant Japan would suffer under Brtiannian rule, so be it.

[prototype_sky]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

A stubborn person can be swayed occasionally. Doesn't mean they're not stubborn, just means there are things that get them.

He made leeway for his friends, but that changed when Euphy died. He was conflicted over killing Tohdoh and the JLF, but if he had the chance to do it, what would have come of it I wonder? He didn't kill the Zeroes because, the public fiasco of such a thing aside, it is not what Nunnally or Euphy wanted. She would have been pissed if he had ordered it.

As for him being fickle, in season 1 he is completely insensitive to the Japanese. All he cared about was his ideals, and if that meant Japan would suffer under Brtiannian rule, so be it.

Ok so you are attacking Suzaku stubborn trait as a reason he should lose to Kallen right?

Can you prove that Kallen is not just as stubborn.
We've seen suzaku swayed occasionally when has Kallen altered her stance?

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by prototype_sky

Ok so you are attacking Suzaku stubborn trait as a reason he should lose to Kallen right?

Can you prove that Kallen is not just as stubborn.
We've seen suzaku swayed occasionally when has Kallen altered her stance?

We sorta ventured off Kallen entirely here, so it's good to get back. I'm saying it would be preferable for him to lose because he'd be stubbornly tuck to their plan, which isn't likely to end well. As long as Suzaku can fight, he will, because it's all he knows. As long as he's fighting, he'll be keeping Lulu on his path, which will probably include keeping Kallen away.

Kallen, unlike Suzaku, has rarely had the chance to alter her stance, and they are hardly circumstances where both answers work out. "Quit the Black Knights" is really the only choice people have given her.

[youngde]

Originally Posted by prototype_sky

Ok so you are attacking Suzaku stubborn trait as a reason he should lose to Kallen right?

Can you prove that Kallen is not just as stubborn.
We've seen suzaku swayed occasionally when has Kallen altered her stance?

At the very beginning of the series when Zero/Lelouch convinced her that she shouldn't attack Britannian civilians.

[lovecakecookies]

Originally Posted by Var

I got really bored and threw this together...

Spoiler for Overanalyzing!:

LOL..This was soo funny.... Now I know why they zoomed in...

I just noticed that Lulu is very pale compared to Kallen..

[Var]

Originally Posted by lovecakecookies

LOL..This was soo funny.... Now I know why they zoomed in...

I just noticed that Lulu is very pale compared to Kallen..

Of course, can't show tougnue kissing without zooming in, silly. First kiss they've ever zoomed in on the lips before too.