2006-11-06, 12:30 | Link #101 | ||||
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
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According the pieces, it appears that Takano believes in it (talking about the queen, though it is to herself). so it is possible it wasn't discarded from late takano. (this is pure speculation) Quote:
At the current time, she isn't really taken seriously, so imagine this situation 4 years before, this would be hard. also, i don't think rika has the information (when exactly) to prevent it. also, she doesn't have the physical ability to do so. and finally, the villagers wouldn't bother to prevent it : how would be possible for rika to convince any villager to prevent some crazy guys to kill the dam manager, one of the top hated people in hinamizawa? also, due to her age, i wouldn't possible that ooishi or his men could believe her (there weren't any incident before, and even when every villager has a motive to kill the dam manager, it would be troublesome to believe that, completely out of the blue, and especially from a little girl) also, we don't know how many years rika could reboot the very first time (although it was said she could come back even before akasaka comes for the first time in hinamizawa) and the time lost between each reboot. also, like you said : it is possible that rika wouldn't connect all the incidents between them. 1) the first incident happen because of 6 random culprits. 2) for satoko's parents, everything appears to be an accident. 3) Furede Priest is dead by a mysterious illness, the mother is presumbly dead of suicide (how would someone imagine it was covered by the goverment? the police didn't noticed any suspect thing, except the impossibility to name the disease) so, there is a really small chance for her to understand that even the first murder would permit the others. Quote:
though, there is facts that are avoided by pure/some luck. i'm referring to KJ post: -As luck would have it, Akasaka lives in this world. However, his wife still dies. 3. In Himatsubushi what change happened to prevent Akasaka from dying? => Numerous factors, including luck. It isn't clearly stated, except that Rika was able to save him from dying by leading him away from the hospital, and that his chances of survival was very low to begin with. Satoko's uncle is also a random factor itself : sometimes he comes back to hinamizawa, sometimes he doesn't. your example is a bit extreme, but realisable. however, what would rika do to prevent keiichi going with rena to the trash site? there isn't a lot involvement from her for such trivial things which lead, impendingly to some paranoia for any people. in conclusion, acting with such a strict and identical pattern won't always prevent an event X, to happen a Y time, at Z world. Quote:
you see, the number of different CG are really really poor for each character. You will NEVER see rena with her trademark cleaver in game. however, just like a novel (wait a min.. it's a novel ! duh ), it is described very well.
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2006-11-06, 13:32 | Link #102 | ||
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And for further interest, Rika's most worst life that she lived through was the one in which Keiichi doesn't come to Hinamizawa. In the past hundred years of her life, there were once or twice in which that happened. According to Rika, those were the most boring days that she had ever lived, and considers that to be a loss from the start. Last edited by kj1980; 2006-11-06 at 13:57. |
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2006-11-06, 13:45 | Link #103 |
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
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yes, this was that quote ^^ (i couldn't remember the exact words or the original poster... i tried to search all of sushi's post and yours, but this was really a pain without any solid key search and the huge amount you have done )
if rika was able to do something so extreme, it would be really huge to know each plan of "survival" she tried in most worlds XD EDIT : oh yeah, that was also another important reboot information (sheesh, how could i forget that? XD). rika had a good reasoning here : how would be hinamizawa without THE K? ~~ (even mion would be really boring, depleting her ideas of fun with the long run without the smashing boy around XD) really, the game gives some small details which can answers a lot... no wonder why people with only anime/manga knowledge are really limited in their brainstorming
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Last edited by Klashikari; 2006-11-06 at 14:12. |
2006-11-09, 02:47 | Link #104 | ||||||||||||
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I guess that she became fatalistic about everything before something like occurred to her. Quote:
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Also, I've been wondering why, in Tsumihoroboshi-hen, the notebook that Takano gave to Rena contained some of the truth (there being a parasite that changed people's behavior), while all of the other notebooks she handed out to other people (and were gathered by the Sonozakis) contained none of the truth. Was she hoping that Rena would give it to the police, so that at least a little bit of the truth her grandfather uncovered would be in the hands of officials, while putting in stuff about aliens and Sonozaki conspiracies into Rena's notebook, and completely ludicrous stuff into the other notebooks, so that the government wouldn't notice that she'd leaked top secret info? |
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2006-11-09, 11:37 | Link #105 | ||||||||||
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
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also, it seems there isn't a lot of media available in hinamizawa. Rika doesn't have few to none important information to begin with. Quote:
so, she is stuck with the festival. Quote:
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since she knows hanyuu, there is no reason why she would think there is a curse, while hanyuu is simply a "ultimate moe-kaii-sweet" spirit, with ONLY the ability to talk, follow, reboot, keeping the memories. so, she knows the curse about oyashiro-sama doesn't exist, since oyashiro-sama itself isn't harmful at all. so, except if she knows there is something (the pathogen) behind the first incident, there is no reason for her to think there is something behind the murder, or someone is taking the advantage of this incident, with the houjou case. the only thing she knows : one of her friends will going berserk, and she will die around june 1983 (she doesn't know anything about the disaster, also, she doesn't know the truth behind each previous event, since every incidents are apparently disconnected from each other.) 1) workers are killing the dam manager : no obvious reason at all 2) houjou case : accident (the only witness : satoko, she could have some doubt of satoko, with irie's help) 3) furude case : illness and suicide (she could be suspicious about her father, nothing else) 4) houjou aunt case : satoshi as the killer, vanishing from hinamizawa after his crime. as you can see, since she doesn't know the cause of the incidents, there is no possibility for her to connect them, except with the "madness" for the 1) 2) and 4). also, she doesn't know what would be useful for the cultprit for killing rika. she has really no capital information at all (except the pathogen, that's it.) Quote:
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sure it could be possible for some abstract theories, but something like a "make your own adventure" story, basing of randomness of the real life, huh... this should be really huge that rika could prevent anything happening with X/Y/Z actions, since she already experimented enough with her reboot (so if she really has a power around this, she would already control some factors already, wich isn't the case) Quote:
also, they were trying to extract some spinal fluid, so obviously around the back of the skull. It's already hard to feel such hole with a dense hairy head, but if you add that keiichi pat the top/front head, and the hole is at the back, well... Quote:
but not for the government. Takano wants to eradicate the village as a measure taken seriously by the goverment (the "god" thing). She wanted to reveal her grandfather's greatness by developping the whole mystery behind the syndrome, and also putting forcefully in it the fact the human mind was mainly composed of parasites. (so, she needed data about the syndrome etc) but as you could read in the recent tips, the alphabet project was aborted, except the "cure" part of the initial project. So she wouldn't be able to provide an excellent bioweapon since the government isn't interested with it anymore. the only possibility for her, to fulfill all of her objective is to "prove" the theories and deal a huge event in history => the syndrome is totally hazardous => disaster => takano happy. Quote:
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2006-11-09, 12:44 | Link #106 | ||
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Takano>>>>>>>>>>>>>>(unscalable wall)>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Rika and her friends. Takano has the resources, the money, the political backing, and the brains of a mad scientist versus just a group of kids whose main strength is their friendship. A trivial change is not going to make a big difference. Like Rika said, it takes a miracle to overcome these things that reinforces the Rules X, Y, and Z. |
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2006-11-10, 06:27 | Link #107 | |
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Now some of the variations seem to have been thrown in by Rika just to keep from boredom, like the different games they play at the start. Rika probably suggests them to Mion since she doesn't want to play the same card game every loop. Other changes though, seem to be pure butterfly effects. For example how does Rika taking Satoshi over to cook dinner for K1 lead to the return of the evil uncle? Oh by the way, there's no real need to explain Hanyu's relative lack of mobility. She's a shinto spirit. She can't leave the village (much) because she's the spirit of the village. Note incidentally that Hanyu is the variable the scientists are oblivious to when they concoct their nonsense about queen strains of viruses. People get calmer when they're around the Furudes because Hanyu's frequently around the Furudes and their shrine and most of Hanyu's energies go into trying to soothe the developing psychoses of her villagers. That's "Oyashiro-sama making peace with the oni" as the story goes. |
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2006-11-10, 08:04 | Link #108 |
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Oh by the way, there's no real need to explain Hanyu's relative lack of mobility. She's a shinto spirit. She can't leave the village (much) because she's the spirit of the village. Note incidentally that Hanyu is the variable the scientists are oblivious to when they concoct their nonsense about queen strains of viruses. People get calmer when they're around the Furudes because Hanyu's frequently around the Furudes and their shrine and most of Hanyu's energies go into trying to soothe the developing psychoses of her villagers. That's "Oyashiro-sama making peace with the oni" as the story goes.[/QUOTE] hmmm.... then can anyone explain how do Rena heard of the "footstep" when she was paranoid as her parents got divorced? I still cannot figure out if it's Hanyuu's footsteps, how she can travel so far away from the village. |
2006-11-10, 09:53 | Link #109 | |
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So it seems Hanyuu can travel that far. |
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2006-11-10, 09:55 | Link #110 | |
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However "much" doesn't mean "at all". I'm guessing, purely guessing that Hanyuu can leave for relatively brief periods. She just couldn't spend a lot of time wandering around. |
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2006-11-10, 10:40 | Link #111 | |||
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
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When keiichi grabbed the bat for the first time, satoko just leaves without saying anything, and rika said it was nice to think about his health (meaning some physical exercise) but she asked that he should not lose the bat. if you are not mistaken, i would say it was also due the paranoia, but i really can't find that part of the first chapter, except if it is a detail only in the game. also, i meant that "if she could really prevent something while acting a set pattern, it would be already a huge impact, which isn't the case". although she tried hundreds years of random worlds, she couldn't really foresee what she has to do to prevent X things (she couldn't prevent shion for snapping, so she could only kill herself) Quote:
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there is no guarantee hanyuu is rebooting right after rika's death (especially that hanyuu is probably telling things about rika's death in minagoroshi, for matsuribayashi) so this isn't really possible to explain each paranoid symptoms, since some can be completely false, or others are facts that are misinterpreted.
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2006-11-11, 23:42 | Link #112 | |
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2006-11-13, 22:17 | Link #114 |
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Well, after pieces #03, #26 and #39,
I think by now all these "I'm sorry, I'm sorry!" from Hanyuu are kind of clear (well, maybe not). I think: The Furudes have the power to keep the syndrome under control due to Hanyuu's presence (In fact it's all Hanyuus doing, but since she's always with the Furudes...). However due the extreme stress due to the dam war (or maybe some kind of weakening of her powers) her powers are not being enough to keep the situation in peace. She feels guilty for it and says: "I'm sorry, I'm sorry! [I'm sorry for not being able to save you. My powers are not enough at the moment.] It also explains why the whole village doesn't go crazy because of Rika's death, and the Queen theory not being so accurate.
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2006-11-14, 23:24 | Link #115 | |
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2006-11-15, 00:32 | Link #116 | |
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Here's a somewhat but not very relevant link: http://cameraslens.com/stranglingritual.php But the interesting part is that after the Great Disaster, the survivors of Hinamazawa go to ground, try to hide their background because the publication of one of Takaru's scrapbooks with all that juicy stuff about disembowelment and ritual cannibalism makes other people regard them basically as burakamin Here's another semirelevant link: http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=477694 |
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2006-11-15, 00:46 | Link #117 |
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But isn't "Watanagashi = human sacrifice" a theory of Takano's, a theory that she doesn't start sharing until later? Also, Rena talks about misogi changing Japanese culture in general, not Hinamizawa culture in particular.
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2006-11-15, 01:05 | Link #118 | |
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
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now, the "current" watanagashi is the same as david johson described : people are filling their filith and sins in the coton, representing a symbol of "absorbing" their bad deeds. Rena is concerned about the change of the misogi : in fact, people tought the misogi should be killed, in order to cleanse the filith (you know, if the "container" dies, the "contents" will dies as well). Now, they consider that the filith taken by the "non living misogi" is now enough
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2006-11-15, 01:20 | Link #119 | ||
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2006-11-15, 01:24 | Link #120 |
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
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i guess not : it appears that rena was just thinking "too much" about the misogi.
back about her condition, she considered herself filthy, and she should die. however, due the "oyashiro-sama apologizes and curse", she is a bit "relieved". with that extent, she was just thinking about the "coton purification" and linked her condition with the watanagashi ritual. She then understood that "killing" someone filthy is not really the best logical response to all this matter. so, i guess she simply doesn't know anything about the ancient ritual. i may be wrong though
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