(L) UQ Holder (Ken Akamatsu's new series)

[SilverGlavenus]

Originally Posted by AstroNerdBoy

Sekkachi Hakushaku to Jikan Dorobou. Chapter 2 is where Kumeta-sensei introduces his Touta parody character (and massively slams Akamatsu-sensei and UQ Holder), then I think it is chapter 4 where this Touta parody character gets brutally killed.

Kumeta-sensei also attacked other titles in his Tonikaku Kawaii introduction chapter, but the big guns were for Akamatsu-sensei.

https://anime.astronerdboy.com/2018/...uq-holder.html

Funny as it is, I still think doing so is pretty unprofessional.

Still prefer Gintama's way of making jokes and parody.

[Homura7]

Sounds like to me he's just crazy jealous his works are not as successful as theirs. That's not just unprofessional, that's being an outright attention whore who cannot write something good without having to lash out at others.

[NapoleonDeCheese]

Originally Posted by Knighto

Sounds like to me he's just crazy jealous his works are not as successful as theirs. That's not just unprofessional, that's being an outright attention whore who cannot write something good without having to lash out at others.

'Sounds to me'. I take from that you're someone who hasn't actually bothered to check the man's work then.

Kumeta is a satirist of the hard-line variety, the kind who puts real bite on the joke, and it's not like his wit is restricted to Akamatsu; he's an equal-opportunity critic who has never shied away from lampooning almost everything under the sun as long as it gives him an opening, and boy, Akamatsu of late has left himself open to justified criticism from all sides. It's not that he's gratuitously name-calling the man himself (unlike what you're doing with bad taste words like 'whore'), he's just calling an unwise storytelling and marketing ploy for what it is. But I guess sometimes it hits too close to the chest...

Edit: Kumeta has also made jokes on Fist of the North Star, Detective Conan, Bleach, Ichigo 100%, and several others. IIRC he's done the requisite Dragon Ball jokes too. I take from that he's also got it against those authors, then?

[SilverGlavenus]

Originally Posted by NapoleonDeCheese

Akamatsu of late has left himself open to justified criticism from all sides

Wholeheartedly agree about Akamatsu. But imo, instead of openly bashing the other authors, he himself should show them how to create a good manga, without the flaws he pointed out.

But then again, if the screams of thousands of hardcore fans cannot make Akamatsu change, I doubt the words of one author could.

[NapoleonDeCheese]

Originally Posted by SilverGlavenus

he himself should show them how to create a good manga, without the flaws he pointed out.

Uh... he already has? Zetsubou Sensei is very good for what it is, as long as one is in that genre, with a very sharp mindscrew ending, and let's all consider this, please:

When Kumeta lost his assistant Hata so he could do Hayate (a commercially successful but ultimately ending in a very bad, half-baked way, series) Kumeta went on to create Zetsubou Sensei, his most successful series to date, spanning several anime adaptations. When Akamatsu lost several assistants, including one who went on to do the very successful Magi (currently having at least two anime series that I know of) he dropped the ball with late Negima, then went on to do UQ Holder, which is very uneven, can't find its own successful identity yet, and only has spawned a very mediocre anime with bad ratings and sales.

I suspect Kumeta has the true talent of his creative team, while Akamatsu's assistants were the real talent of HIS outfit. Your Mileage May Vary, of course.

[Sixth]

Originally Posted by AstroNerdBoy

Sekkachi Hakushaku to Jikan Dorobou. Chapter 2 is where Kumeta-sensei introduces his Touta parody character (and massively slams Akamatsu-sensei and UQ Holder), then I think it is chapter 4 where this Touta parody character gets brutally killed.

Kumeta-sensei also attacked other titles in his Tonikaku Kawaii introduction chapter, but the big guns were for Akamatsu-sensei.

https://anime.astronerdboy.com/2018/...uq-holder.html

Thanks for the info. Maybe I am not the fan of Touta so that chapter made me LOL so hard.

I am glad that even other author thinks what Akamatsu did to UQ Holder was...ya know..

[XFire]

Originally Posted by NapoleonDeCheese

'Sounds to me'. I take from that you're someone who hasn't actually bothered to check the man's work then.

Kumeta is a satirist of the hard-line variety, the kind who puts real bite on the joke, and it's not like his wit is restricted to Akamatsu; he's an equal-opportunity critic who has never shied away from lampooning almost everything under the sun as long as it gives him an opening, and boy, Akamatsu of late has left himself open to justified criticism from all sides. It's not that he's gratuitously name-calling the man himself (unlike what you're doing with bad taste words like 'whore'), he's just calling an unwise storytelling and marketing ploy for what it is. But I guess sometimes it hits too close to the chest...

Edit: Kumeta has also made jokes on Fist of the North Star, Detective Conan, Bleach, Ichigo 100%, and several others. IIRC he's done the requisite Dragon Ball jokes too. I take from that he's also got it against those authors, then?

Yeah, no. From what others have said in the thread he has a pretty blatant grudge, and considering the fact that the two are as far apart thematically as possible when it comes to their work, it comes off as nothing but sour grapes.

You can call him a critic of you want, but someone who criticizes others in their own field is equally subject to examination over that criticism. Considering the absolutely massive disparity between the ones you mentioned and his own work, it can easily be considered an attempt to grab attention.

There's also the basic principle of professional courtesy. Fans, who are the consumers of the media being produced, have at least some right to criticize and complain over that media. But as someone who is at least nominally a peer, deliberately mocking and tearing down another's work is childish at best and entirely unprofessional at worst.

[NapoleonDeCheese]

Originally Posted by XFire

Yeah, no. From what others have said in the thread he has a pretty blatant grudge.

I'll keep discussing this topic with you when you actually have read the works of the man yourself, have seen the nature of Kumeta's humor on your own (and thus realize it's hardly restricted to Akamatsu, other than I still think you don't fully understand the concept of barbed satirism at play here. I mean, that kind of black humor is obviously not for everyone, but still...) and have a leg to stand on besides 'what I, as an Akamatsu fan, have heard from others', in other words, when you actually have an idea of your own of what you're discussing here.

someone who criticizes others in their own field is equally subject to examination over that criticism

That's good and all, but please restrain from giving said criticism until you have actually checked what you are intending to criticize and get the context of Kumeta's humor style and the context of his works, instead of going with what you saw from a couple of posted images and the rumors you hear from second hand sources.

I'll admit I've been one to speculate on Akamatsu's own motives before, sometimes going on hearsay since there's no remedy, Japanese authors are far less sharing of their own issues than American ones, where you can keep tabs of whatever is going on between Dan Slott and Marvel from their Twitter, but I'll always try adding an 'in my opinion...' or 'I believe that...' before that.

deliberately mocking and tearing down another's work is childish at best and entirely unprofessional at worst.

I'll be sure to tell long time established institutions of parody humor (with their highs and lows, but which have spawned several scathing masterpieces here and there over the years) like Koshi 'Excel Saga' Rikudo, Saturday Night Live, The Simpsons, Futurama, South Park, the Warner staffers who populated Animaniacs with all sorts of nasty jabs at Disney and others, and MAD Magazine, that mocking others' work automatically makes you a hack, as long as you aren't kissing your fellow authors' shoes.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by NapoleonDeCheese

I'll keep discussing this topic with you when you actually have read the works of the man yourself, have seen the nature of Kumeta's humor on your own (and thus realize it's hardly restricted to Akamatsu, other than I still think you don't fully understand the concept of barbed satirism at play here. I mean, that kind of black humor is obviously not for everyone, but still...) and have a leg to stand on besides 'what I, as an Akamatsu fan, have heard from others', in other words, when you actually have an idea of your own of what you're discussing here.

You aren't discussing anything anyway, you decided we should all be ashamed of ourselves for not appreciating the nuances of insulting the work of a peer.

It's not "black humor" and barbed satirism is significant in that its specifically intended as a personal attack on the target as opposed to a criticism of the work. That's inherently reprehensible and borderline illegal since it crosses the line into slander, so you'd better hope that's not what he's actually doing.

Originally Posted by NapoleonDeCheese

That's good and all, but please restrain from giving said criticism until you have actually checked what you are intending to criticize and get the context of Kumeta's humor style and the context of his works, instead of going with what you saw from a couple of posted images and the rumors you hear from second hand sources.

I'll admit I've been one to speculate on Akamatsu's own motives before, sometimes going on hearsay since there's no remedy, Japanese authors are far less sharing of their own issues than American ones, where you can keep tabs of whatever is going on between Dan Slott and Marvel from their Twitter, but I'll always try adding an 'in my opinion...' or 'I believe that...' before that.

My criticism isn't of his work. My criticism is of the fact he was unprofessional enough to use his work to deliberately attack another author he's never met and has no relation to. If his sense of humor revolves around attacking other people entirely then he was never their peer in the first place and was just a parody comedian.

Originally Posted by NapoleonDeCheese

I'll be sure to tell long time established institutions of parody humor (with their highs and lows, but which have spawned several scathing masterpieces here and there over the years) like Koshi 'Excel Saga' Rikudo, Saturday Night Live, The Simpsons, Futurama, South Park, the Warner staffers who populated Animaniacs with all sorts of nasty jabs at Disney and others, and MAD Magazine, that mocking others' work automatically makes you a hack, as long as you aren't kissing your fellow authors' shoes.

And I take it you're not particularly good with reading comprehension? Because I said the work of a peer. Any writer who includes a blatant insert of another authors work to tear down is mercilessly mocked and derided in the professional community because its not only unprofessional but a sign of the writer being unable to create their own content.

All the examples you mentioned are parody based comedy. All of them exist under the premise that their sole purpose is to mock others for their failings rather than stand on their own merits. Parody is an inherent step down from the actual thing, because the prerequisite to doing so is that you aren't actually part of that category. You're standing outside throwing jokes at a group you aren't part of. Scary Movie is not an actual horror flick, SNL is not actual politics, etc. None of them are actually part of the things they mock.

But this guy was writing his own stuff, trying to create his own story, and then resorted to mocking one of his peers in the same field for cheap laughs. That demonstrates not only a level of disrespect for a colleague generally reserved for people payed to make fools of themselves and others, but demonstrates an inability to create humor without piggybacking off of others.

So the next time you want to use "satire" and "parody" as excuses for unprofessional conduct, keep in mind those categories are reserved for the realms of meta-commentary, which means the user is nothing more than a spectator.

[NapoleonDeCheese]

Originally Posted by XFire

borderline illegal since it crosses the line into slander,

You obviously either haven't come across real slander or you're way mistaken about the boundaries between it and scathing sarcasm. Anyway, if those really are you absolutist views on what's acceptable or not as taking shots for laughs at people, I pray God you're never put in a position of critical authority over others. And this is coming from someone who lives under a totalitarian regime and thus knows what's that like.

And I take it you're not particularly good with reading comprehension?

Just like I take you take hardline criticism automatically as personal insults because you're somewhat unable of shooting others' points down without insulting their intelligence, which IS an actually offense (and for the record, I don't doubt YOUR intelligence, even if I think you ARE being biased here. A lot of smart people can act that way whenever they feel emotionally afflicted about something they hold dear).

Because I said the work of a peer.

The examples I quoted are also set between creators and fellow creators.

Any writer who includes a blatant insert of another authors work to tear down is mercilessly mocked and derided in the professional community because its not only unprofessional but a sign of the writer being unable to create their own content.

Kumeta has created tons of content of his own. Again, please read or watch the darn things yourself before criticizing them, and you still haven't denied (much less plausibly) you're tearing down the man's body of work without having checked it first. While, yes, I have read more than enough of Akamatsu's recent output to see where he's been royally messing up.

All the examples you mentioned are parody based comedy.

Oh, so just like SZS and most of Kumeta's works, which mostly parody Japanese society as a whole but also take the occasional kick at other fictional pieces, then? What was that about reading comprehension a while back?

Please, please, read the things beyond what you saw in a site once to start slinging mud at a professional without understanding what they're actually doing and why.

And have a very nice day.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by NapoleonDeCheese

You obviously either haven't come across real slander or you're way mistaken about the boundaries between it and scathing sarcasm. Anyway, if those really are you absolutist views on what's acceptable or not as taking shots for laughs at people, I pray God you're never put in a position of critical authority over others. And this is coming from someone who lives under a totalitarian regime and thus knows what's that like.

"Barbed satirism" is the term you used and refers to personal attacks on others. Putting that in a public work qualifies as slander under its dictionary definition. The things shown so far do not qualify as barbed satirism, as they were not personal attacks on Akamatsu but criticism of his work. I was saying that you, specifically, do not understand the literary concepts you are invoking, or else you are accusing Kumeta of an actual crime.

Originally Posted by NapoleonDeCheese

Just like I take you take hardline criticism automatically as personal insults because you're somewhat unable of shooting others' points down without insulting their intelligence, which IS an actually offense (and for the record, I don't doubt YOUR intelligence, even if I think you ARE being biased here. A lot of smart people can act that way whenever they feel emotionally afflicted about something they hold dear).

You said that I called all parody comedians hacks because I think Kumeta's behavior was unprofessional. That demonstrates a lack of comprehension of what I wrote, because what Kumeta did isn't remotely the same as what they do. Hence, you do not appear to have good reading comprehension.

Originally Posted by NapoleonDeCheese

The examples I quoted are also set between creators and fellow creators.

No. The examples you quoted were largely comedy shows that make fun of real world politics and situations (Saturday Night Live, The Simpsons, Futurama, South Park) or actual parody works that from the ground up rely on references to other shows and entertainers. Kumeta is another mangaka writing his own work who decided to take a cheap shot at someone else in the same field he has no relation to. I shouldn't have to explain the difference.

Originally Posted by NapoleonDeCheese

Kumeta has created tons of content of his own. Again, please read or watch the darn things yourself before criticizing them, and you still haven't denied (much less plausibly) you're tearing down the man's body of work without having checked it first. While, yes, I have read more than enough of Akamatsu's recent output to see where he's been royally messing up.

I.

Don't.

Care.

About Kumeta's work. I'm sure its great for those who like the genre. That isn't what I'm talking about.

I am telling you that within the professional writing community, doing what he did in that comic is a massive faux pas. It is objectively unprofessional and when done in the western world the author gets shredded for it by his peers.

Originally Posted by NapoleonDeCheese

Oh, so just like SZS and most of Kumeta's works, which mostly parody Japanese society as a whole but also take the occasional kick at other fictional pieces, then? What was that about reading comprehension a while back?

Please, please, read the things beyond what you saw in a site once to start slinging mud at a professional without understanding what they're actually doing and why.

And have a very nice day.

A parody of Japanese society falls under an entirely different category than taking an actual cheap shot at another author.

The former is, like most of the shows you mentioned, actual parody. A genre of comedy that's been around since politicians.

The latter is just using your platform to insult a fellow creator.

Parody inherently exists at one level lower than the thing it parodies. SNL is not actual political commentary. Spooky Movie and its ilk are not actual horror. Etc.

If all you could come up with in the five days since I responded was "It's parody so it's okay", you may want to take a look at how some of those parody comedians get treated after they start making personal insults at others.

[amtro]

Kumeta's works are popular culture parodies. Don't put too much thought into it and don't get angry, he does this shit with anything and everything. Watch Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei.

[Ultragunner]

Chap 146 is out, and man that troll move

[AstroNerdBoy]

Yes, a massive troll move on Akamatsu-sensei's part. He really had me going there for a bit.

[SilverGlavenus]

Nice chapter. Cutlass died. I hope she is dead for good. But seeing her turning around with eyes in tears, I guess a redemption arc might be coming along.

[Hata]

UQ Holder #16, the one with the eternal first kiss OAD and Kirie’s pactio card,

Spoiler for 16:

has a “big printing mistake”, of "one copying omission", (missing page?) and since the anime is over, Ken does not know when there will be a reprint to fix the problem.

needless to say, the reprint, even if they did, probably would not be the limited edition.

[4th Dimension]

I was actually thinking it strange they didn't replenish when it was happening.

Also I have a problem with

Spoiler for :

Gengiro's solution. In that he tried to contain the blast, rather than to just try to redirect it away from station. He could have done it with LESS than half his lives that way.

[AstroNerdBoy]

@Hata - If I'd purchased the LE edition and it had a major mistake, I'd be pissed with the publisher and want them to rectify that.

[4th Dimension]

It would depend on who made the screwup on who would rectify stuff. If it happened on Ken's side (wrong files sent and such) tough luck, but if the publisher/printer screwed it up, there have to be some sort of penalties involved.

[Hata]

Originally Posted by AstroNerdBoy

If I'd purchased the LE edition and it had a major mistake, I'd be pissed with the publisher and want them to rectify that.

not as major as I first thought,

１４１話目１９ページの５コマ目に、セリフ抜けがあります。「ぐっ！」でも「ちっ！」でも何でもいいんです けどｗ

chapter 141, page 19, frame 5, missing speech line (sound effect almost), people in twitter follow up joking they can do the correction themselves. or treat it as rare collectable first print.

for LE buyer, the only solution probably will be buying a reprint regular edition when it came out to replace the manga, all the extra in LE are fine.