What makes a "chuuni" anime?

[Yui Is My Wife]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

How come nobody mentioned Seiken Tsukai no World Break? That series has the aspects you'd see in a chuuni anime, particularly the excessive use of Roman terminology for stuff that could have been left as a Japanese term. Oh, and the looooooooong spell incantations.

Not to mention its deliberately Victorian-Rock Goth-Loli Opening sung by Petit Milady starring Yuuki Aoi and Taketatsu Ayana.

[Eisdrache]

Originally Posted by Yui Is My Wife

This is what makes Suzumiya Haruhi, non-Gothic tendencies aside, a definitive example of a "Chuuni" character. She is adamant in her convictions to live a full, joyful meaningful life even if it means breaking societal rules and expectations, her special little way or the highway; and those who don't see it her way don't even exist, much less matter.
And if there is no inherent meaning? Then she'll FIND one whatever it takes; playing by her rules, of course.

But Haruhi isn't a chuuni to begin with. The only thing she wants is an interesting life. She doesn't have delusions about being someone else than she actually is. Even if she had them she could easily change herself to whatever she wished to be as her powers are real despite her not being aware of that.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Akuma Kinomoto

Well, I'm convinced this term is basically used to describe power fantasy anime I don't like the same way pretentious describes psychological anime I don't like. Chuuni is on thin ice if Lain and No Game No Life can somehow be categorized together.

Not really....Chuu2 is used as a positive term by many of its fans


I mean really, we all proclaim ourselves chuu2 like a rallying cry. Works are openly touted as chuu2. There's not so much negativity associated with the term





There's a more straightforward term for the critical definition used by detractors. That term is simply "pretentious"


But in the original usage, the term does not carry as much negativity as say...."otaku" and even that term is becoming more and more neutral as time passes

[Gpower]

It seems to me that the so called "Chuuni" is the Japanese version of, well, many of the same things that define traditional High Fantasy/Space Operas.

I mean, think about Lord of the Rings, Star Wars. Or Mass Effect and Dragon Age.

Fate of the World? Check
Chosen one/Characters being Special? Check
Fancy titles/made up words? Check
(Overly?) Complex magic systems/lore that can overwhelm casuals? Check
Fancy Clothing? Check

Because of this, I don't think being chuuni is inherently a bad thing. Personally I love the stuff. The problem is that the label itself suggests that chuuni as immature. Often critics would follow up with accusation of flat characters and shallow plot (which can be a valid point), creating the idea that chuuni anime are shows that impress the viewers on the superficial but without substance.

Edit:
I mean, watch this video (lord of the rings montage).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dqOM7sVec0
It inspires a sense of outworldly grandiose. Emphasis on objects, world building, the magic. Not on characters and plot. Shallow from a literary perspective? F**king Awesome? Absolutely on both counts.

[Cosmic Eagle]

There's a difference though.... Chuu2 applies more to the common person.


IE, when it's the common person from (our) everyday life rising up against the odds.


High fantasy or space opera protags tend to be people already part of that setting, not some totally powerless/clueless at first commoner


The difference from shounen is in how in chuu2 genre, the protag is deeply involved in the esoteric or ruling systems of his/her setting and is usually one of a select group aware of said systems

[Gpower]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

There's a difference though.... Chuu2 applies more to the common person.


IE, when it's the common person from (our) everyday life rising up against the odds.


High fantasy or space opera protags tend to be people already part of that setting, not some totally powerless/clueless at first commoner

Really? Frodo lived his life in a peaceful village before a wizard turned up to his doorstep. Luke Skywalker lived in some backwater planet without knowing of his heritage until Obi-Wan Kenobi showed up.

[Cosmic Eagle]

They are still part of their setting in the sense they are still fantasy characters/ space farers etc. They still know of wizards, orcs, space technology, etc even if only through hearsay....in fact Gandalf is still a regular visitor to those hobbits



Not someone who stumbles upon the secrets of how their world functions and only they can do anything about that knowledge etc....ie someone totally alien to the setting who gets thrust into it either willingly or not





The basis of chuu2 after all, is the grand flights of fancy of the young / young at heart of everyday life

[Gpower]

It is true that often "chuuni" anime has setting in the real world with a hidden fantasy world. However, when compared with LotR, between discovering some secret of our world as oppose to discovering a similar secret in a fantasy world (So for LotR, discovering the return of Saron and the One Ring) I find the distinction to be not particularly large.

Anime have a tendency of having settings in high school regardless of actual story, which could explain the difference.

[erneiz_hyde]

I actually agree with Gpower, I would say Star Wars and LoTR ;and while we're at it, Harry Potter; are good examples of western chuu2 works. However, I would say Star Wars only count because it has the Force and the whole Jedi-Sith lore. Such, I don't think Mass Effect count because while they have psychic-like abilities, it doesn't take that much of importance to the whole story. Warhammer 40K is another example of western space chuu2 works imo.

Grandiose world building is also another hallmark of a chuu2 series. If chuu2 must involve a normal everyday character as protagonist, then Index series where superpowers are the everyday thing to all the characters wouldn't count as one despite clearly being one. Then there are things like X-Clamp.

[Klashikari]

By that definition, you are including any heroic fantasy involving magic and the likes which is a bit too broad and generalized.

The whole "point" of a chuuni series is that it involves elements that are completely "pretentious" or over the top/overly complex along with an emphasis on a "special trait" towards the protagonist(s) compared to the other characters from the same series.
It is more about the narrative and the 'background/setting' than really the genre or merely some plot elements.

Otherwise, you are pretty much including stuff like Druaga etc which doesn't make sense whatsoever.
Whereas it is sort of debatable for starwars, I don't see how LOTR or HP could even be qualified as western chuuni at all.

[Marcus H.]

If anyone is still confused, just remember this guy and his attempt at writing his own fantasy series.

[Flower]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Japanese define series etc as "chuuni" if it reminds them delusions of grandeur imagined by middle school kids.

Which means that the very moment the plot covers stuff like "fate of the world", "unique powers/hidden abilities" and the likes, it is deemed as chuuni.

There are way too many genre that has "flashy" appearance and it doesn't mean these stories are part of chuuni genre. It is mostly based on plot/settings.

Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0

Chuunibyou = second year middle school syndrome. Think when a 14 year old suddenly starts acting like they're particularly sophisticated, pretend to be anti-social, pretend to be familiar with the occult, etc. and it just comes across as pretentious....

Originally Posted by Triple_R

...Granted, there is some truth to what 0utf0XZer0 wrote as well. For people who use "chuuni" in a mostly critical sense, they tend to mean what he's pointing to there....

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Not really....Chuu2 is used as a positive term by many of its fans....

I mean really, we all proclaim ourselves chuu2 like a rallying cry. Works are openly touted as chuu2. There's not so much negativity associated with the term....

There's a more straightforward term for the critical definition used by detractors. That term is simply "pretentious"

But in the original usage, the term does not carry as much negativity as say...."otaku" and even that term is becoming more and more neutral as time passes

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

....The basis of chuu2 after all, is the grand flights of fancy of the young / young at heart of everyday life

Originally Posted by Klashikari

...The whole "point" of a chuuni series is that it involves elements that are completely "pretentious" or over the top/overly complex along with an emphasis on a "special trait" towards the protagonist(s) compared to the other characters from the same series.
It is more about the narrative and the 'background/setting' than really the genre or merely some plot elements....

****

To my mind "chuuni" is a very specific term used to identify a very specific mindset often beginning and/or manifesting at a very specific age in a particular person's life. This is also, to my mind, a extremely specific definition from a specific culture.

Yes - the traits can be found throughout history (particular recent history in multimedia entertainment mediums) but rather than try to use the term "chuuni" and inorganically "shoehorn" everything under it's umbrella definition-wise it might be better to go the "other direction", perhaps.

That is, describe common personality traits and ways of presentation in a broad sense first, and then give chuuni as an extremely particular expression of it ... from the large, overarching, generalization to the extraordinarily specific.

NOT to go the other way - starting in a very specific, particularized manifestation of these traits and use it as a label to try and apply it to the overarching common "body" of behavior and attitudes that manifest "cross-culturally". Things just get unnecessarily muddled and needlessly complicated that way.

[0utf0xZer0]

To be honest I think the easiest starting point is to look at Chuunibyou's Yuuta himself and his whole "Dark Flame Master" shtick... he thinks it's awesome when he's 14 and just a couple years later is horrified at how naff it is.

I don't really associate it with sci-fi or fantasy in general, or even teenagers with occults powers - I wouldn't consider Kyoukai no Kanata "chuuni" for example. However, it wouldn't have taken much to make it so - just a few standout pretentious foreign names or a sense the series is in love with its own occult system would have easily done it.

(The unlimited blade works incantation aside, I also wouldn't consider Fate/Stay Night chuuni - it's magic system seems well thought out rather than superficial "isn't this awesome" and while it's philosophical exposition does sometimes make the series feel like it has its head up its own ass, I'd regard most of its philosophy stuff as too mature for true chuuni.)

There are series I consider chuuni that I like, but they tend to be ones that do a good job at getting me to buy into the silliness - if I take things seriously it doesn't tend to work.

[erneiz_hyde]

Hmmm, I do start to wonder if I am being a bit too broad here. I might have to heed my own word that there is the chuu2 genre and then there are genres that chuu2 tend to like.

However, I do think it is true that extensive world building is one of the hallmarks of the chuu2 genre. Often the world building is much more fleshed out and/or bigger than the actual story told. Nasuverse is one example of that. Which is why I kinda automatically associate these kind of world-building as chuu2. (also, it reminds me of my actual middle school period when I was doing exactly that - extensive world building. I never got to write down any of the stories I imagined for that world)

[FRS]

From reading this thread it looks like to me that this term is so vague that it end being used to label something that you dislike.

[Marcus H.]

Actually, no. It's just some people mistake legitimate fantasy like Tolkien and Rowling as a "mere whim of teenage delusion" that fits the term "chuuni" perfectly.

[Gpower]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

Actually, no. It's just some people mistake legitimate fantasy like Tolkien and Rowling as a "mere whim of teenage delusion" that fits the term "chuuni" perfectly.

Come on, I don't think anyone in this thread said that. As erneiz hyde said, the difference in our opinion may be a definitional one. I'm thinking of the type of literature that might have inspired the imaginations of those 14 year olds in Japan. Other posters suggested the definition should only include the literature written by those 14 your olds (or people with their mind set). If we are sticking by that definition, I think there is no room for debate that fiction written with an immature mindset is, well, immature.

So in that context, I think we can agree that the use of "Chuuni" would simply be an accusation that a particular fantasy/sci-fi story is badly written in a particular manner.

[Fizix]

I don't understand how Madoka Magica can have "power fantasy" applied to it at all? Power and being special is the last thing those girls are given. And what power they have is at a sacrifice they didn't really choose or want.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0

To be honest I think the easiest starting point is to look at Chuunibyou's Yuuta himself and his whole "Dark Flame Master" shtick... he thinks it's awesome when he's 14 and just a couple years later is horrified at how naff it is.

I don't really associate it with sci-fi or fantasy in general, or even teenagers with occults powers - I wouldn't consider Kyoukai no Kanata "chuuni" for example. However, it wouldn't have taken much to make it so - just a few standout pretentious foreign names or a sense the series is in love with its own occult system would have easily done it.

(The unlimited blade works incantation aside, I also wouldn't consider Fate/Stay Night chuuni - it's magic system seems well thought out rather than superficial "isn't this awesome" and while it's philosophical exposition does sometimes make the series feel like it has its head up its own ass, I'd regard most of its philosophy stuff as too mature for true chuuni.)

There are series I consider chuuni that I like, but they tend to be ones that do a good job at getting me to buy into the silliness - if I take things seriously it doesn't tend to work.

Well thing is.... Mushroom's works are touted as chuu2 by the Mushroom himself and his community....so no, I don't think well thought out battle system and in depth philosophy discounts something from chuu2 genre

[erneiz_hyde]

I think the chuu2 element in Madoka came from how Madoka essentially became a protector god (I still haven't got around to watching the movie so I only based this on the tv series). But would I say Madoka as a whole is a chuu2 anime? I guess not.

Ah, so that's it. Klash and few others pointed it out earlier. If you include genres that have the elements that make up the chuu2 genre, then there'd be no end to it. But then that takes us back to how do you exactly define chuu2? Since there are clearly chuu2 series where the setting is not of everyday life and where everyone has superpowers, then it's definitely not that. Somebody mentioned Mass Effect earlier and that involved the fate of mankind, but I don't think it's chuu2 at all. Now that I think about it there are also examples where the world building is not grandiose in anyway but still managed to be chuu2.

Hmm, the more I think about this the more confused I am. And Chuu2 is my most favorite genre too.

edit:

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Well thing is.... Mushroom's works are touted as chuu2 by the Mushroom himself and his community....so no, I don't think well thought out battle system and in depth philosophy discounts something from chuu2 genre

Yeah, true that. Actually, in a chuu2 series, "magic" is often not "just magic". There are deep underlying mechanisms and principles that govern them, and the more sophisticated they are, then the more chuu2 the series is. That is why you can discount most magical girl or other fantasy series from chuu2 genre. In fact, chuu2 series are also often quite philosophical.