Gundam AGE General Discussion Thread

[Westlo]

Originally Posted by Key Board

Even if they didn't intentionally sabotage AGE

Haha don't be silly man, Level 5 have just turfed out bomb after bomb the last couple of years and AGE is just another victim. I think the Danbooru Senki anime and video game is the only successful thing they've produced in that period... how do you fail with a Ghibli game? Ask Hino!

[SonicSP]

Originally Posted by Key Board

Level 5 was responsible for Inazuma Eleven and Danbooru Senki which are popular with kids

Sunrise wanted Gundam to have that audience, so they approached Level 5 for it, but in retrospect, perhaps that is their greatest mistake

Isn't that like Microsoft asking Apple to design an OS for PCs?

You're asking your direct competitor to make something that will take away from your very own market share?

Even if they didn't intentionally sabotage AGE, I'm sure there are people in Level 5 that were making steps to ensure that AGE would never steal away Danbooru Senki's thunder

I doubt that would be the case. Even if it's a Gundam series, how good or bad AGE do would actually reflect on Level 5 itself in one way or another and companies in a similar industry team up to do things all the time. If anything, one of the example post mortem tests we saw in the article not too long ago might suggest that AGE's problem is that it might be too Gundam, in the sense that it has a decent amount of war and science in them which the test found that kids associate less with. It probably more than just that though.

[Arabesque]

Originally Posted by Key Board

Isn't that like Microsoft asking Apple to design an OS for PCs?

You're asking your direct competitor to make something that will take away from your very own market share?

No, your thinking of this the wrong way.

This isn't a competitor asking an equal for help, this is a large, old, well established (and connected) successful organization asking (or rather, agreeing with the request of) a young, up and coming company to re-introduce their flagship title to a demographic that Bandai/Sunrise had been having problems with in the last decade reaching, and Level 5, a company that is specialized in that demographic, understands what ''clicks'' with that young demographic.

Level 5, and what Hino is aiming for was to expand their horizon and prove to everyone that they are here to stay, that this company has a future and that they can reach high places no one else would dream off. Being handed the management of the next Gundam TV title is a HUGE deal for them, and screwing it up would not work in their best interest at all. Hino wanted this to work, he wanted to take his company to the next level.

This isn't taking away a competitor (who's not even really direct, Sunrise/Bandai hold the lions share of the market when compared to Level 5) segment of the market, this is getting on the good side of a big organization so that in the future, it would help make your company even more significant.

Originally Posted by SonicSP

I doubt that would be the case. Even if it's a Gundam series, how good or bad AGE do would actually reflect on Level 5 itself in one way or another and companies in a similar industry team up to do things all the time.

Exactly.

Originally Posted by SonicSP

If anything, one of the example post mortem tests we saw in the article not too long ago might suggest that AGE's problem is that it might be too Gundam, in the sense that it has a decent amount of war and science in them which the test found that kids associate less with. It probably more than just that though.

Yeah, that seems to be the issue here. There isn't enough wars to make kids really appreciate Gundam over in Japan, or the generational shift had already (largely) moved on past the mentality of the defeated WW2 soldiers that gave birth to the brand of cynicism found in the 0079 series.

What a paradoxical problem. For AGE to do better, we need to have more war, but that goes against the very message the franchise had been sending (war is evil).

[SonicSP]

Originally Posted by Arabesque

Yeah, that seems to be the issue here. There isn't enough wars to make kids really appreciate Gundam over in Japan, or the generational shift had already (largely) moved on past the mentality of the defeated WW2 soldiers that gave birth to the brand of cynicism found in the 0079 series.

What a paradoxical problem. For AGE to do better, we need to have more war, but that goes against the very message the franchise had been sending (war is evil)..

Its also a big problem for Gundam in general in Japan and would in part explain why getting get kids to stick with Gundam than before is harder (which led to them to trying AGE in the 1st place). Unfortunately, considering war and science are two big elements of the Gundam series, Bandai's next attempt on the younger audience (and there will be one if they want to survive as they are in the long term) might have to deviate further from this elements.

What I'm curious about is how they are going to balance this attempt of trying to bring in newer younger audiences with different tastes without alienating the older and different Gundam audiences and diluting existing brand equity with them as more and more attempts are made. AGE seems to be more of a fair balance between the two but either because of premise or lack of quality is not doing well with either. Bandai's got tough task ahead and hopefully AGE can provide them with data that can help their future efforts.

[Arabesque]

Originally Posted by SonicSP

Its also a big problem for Gundam in general in Japan and would in part explain why getting get kids to stick with Gundam than before is harder (which led to them to trying AGE in the 1st place). Unfortunately, considering war and science are two big elements of the Gundam series, Bandai's next attempt on the younger audience (and there will be one if they want to survive as they are in the long term) might have to deviate further from this elements.

What I'm curious about is how they are going to balance this attempt of trying to bring in newer younger audiences with different tastes without alienating the older and different Gundam audiences and diluting existing brand equity with them as more and more attempts are made.

I want to say that it's doable, but will be very hard ... but the reality is that it might as will be impossible at this point , if the reaction to AGE, 00 and SeeD had shown us in the last decade.

The only fandom that Bandai can count on for reaching thoroughly is the older, more established UC fandom when it comes to Gundam, and if they want to target a younger audience as you said in order to make sure the franchise survives (which is really common sense) that would insure that a large segment of that fandom isn't going to support it, effectively removing one of the central pillars for the show's success before it even gets off the ground. Factor in all the other fandoms, and you might have a handful of people of older Gundam fans from past shows willing to support the new one.

That's not even coming across the issue that you pointed out: the next show is going to have to be drastically different from what Gundam shows had traditionally been in the past, deviating away from the focus on war (which will have every Gundam fanatic up in arms and calling for the executioner) in order to attract the sort of young demographic that Bandai needs at this point ... and you have a show that not only has no support from the fanbase, but sometimes even active hatred and scorn, leaving it on it's own to try and be successful in an already tough environment.

I think the only realistic option at this point is for the next Gundam series to stop trying to appease both the older fans and draw in new ones, since if AGE had shown us anything, trying to do both things at once is going to please on one. Really, the next Gundam series needs to be closer to what G Gundam had tried to do, a completely new take on the idea that will draw in kids, all the hate be damned.

Originally Posted by SonicSP

AGE seems to be more of a fair balance between the two but either because of premise or lack of quality is not doing well with either. Bandai's got tough task ahead and hopefully AGE can provide them with data that can help their future efforts.

I doubt it's the lack of quality so much the premise it self and trying to draw in two different demographics into the show. I do hope that the next Gundam show will do better, even if at this point I want to side with GN0010 Nosferatu and say that it's not the end yet for this one since my heart wants AGE to go on for it's full intended run, but at the same time me head is telling me differently ...

Regardless, the info they have from AGE will help them greatly in the future. Gundam isn't dead yet and I'm sure the Bandai Builder over at their office is cooking up something for the future. Hopefully it'll be more focused on what it tries to do.

[Key Board]

I agree

It's trying to draw in two audiences and not really succeeding in either

[Nivek von Beldo]

Originally Posted by Key Board

Level 5 was responsible for Inazuma Eleven and Danbooru Senki which are popular with kids

Sunrise wanted Gundam to have that audience, so they approached Level 5 for it, but in retrospect, perhaps that is their greatest mistake

Isn't that like Microsoft asking Apple to design an OS for PCs?

You're asking your direct competitor to make something that will take away from your very own market share?

Even if they didn't intentionally sabotage AGE, I'm sure there are people in Level 5 that were making steps to ensure that AGE would never steal away Danbooru Senki's thunder

Ehh Nop, In Fact AGE start with the Interest of a Gundam RPG make by Level-5 but the original desing and plot was so like by sunrise who ask to a colaborative effort in the new frontline Gundam TV Series for the new decade, and the rest is history.


The main problem of AGE as developmt in the topic... the Fan Dumb was so big that make a mortal wound to this series who hasn't fully recovered, but again, maybe in the mother of all Ironies, this series will be Reivindicated by Cable(Satellite Now) and become a fan favorite in a few years...(well after Gundam 2014 will be another Fujoshi bait with Yaoi Subtext... Aka Gundam SEED 2.0)

Even at the Eleven Hour.... AGE make his work, make fell more love with the franchise, and better being original and fail... than lauching soo common that is not new.

[justavisitor]

Originally Posted by SonicSP

If anything, one of the example post mortem tests we saw in the article not too long ago might suggest that AGE's problem is that it might be too Gundam, in the sense that it has a decent amount of war and science in them which the test found that kids associate less with. It probably more than just that though.

To someone who stopped at episode 5, my response would be: No way...how does making a gun in less than 30 sec too science? (unless they change that setting in later episode..which I have no idea since I have never watched it past episode 5)..that was more like a fairy tale to me and probably that was one of the reason to make me drop the show.

Anyway, I still hope Age can finish what it had intended to bring in the first place. Regarding to the next series, my suggestion would be the staff should just focus on making a good series instead of trying to appease all sides.

[SonicSP]

Originally Posted by justavisitor

To someone who stopped at episode 5, my response would be: No way...how does making a gun in less than 30 sec too science? (unless they change that setting in later episode..which I have no idea since I have never watched it past episode 5)..that was more like a fairy tale to me and probably that was one of the reason to make me drop the show.

Anyway, I still hope Age can finish what it had intended to bring in the first place. Regarding to the next series, my suggestion would be the staff should just focus on making a good series instead of trying to appease all sides.

Its hardly realistic but its still "science" since what you essentially have is a souped up quick efficient miniaturized factory and is far from an impossibility. The science factor refers more than just one example but rather the whole "future human civilization" feeling that Gundam series are all so well known as. In this regard, AGE is similar to most other AUs. With the new younger generation, it becomes a neutral rather than a plus point.

For the record, AGE hardly had examples where things are built in split seconds, the DODS Rifle is actually the only one (the closest "fast creation example" to it would be Madorna's Photon Cannon modificati to the Diva being another feat that was done even more unrealistically quickly though it wasnt split second either). The wears always take time to build and is hardly designed and built in one instance.

[Nivek von Beldo]

Originally Posted by justavisitor

To someone who stopped at episode 5, my response would be: No way...how does making a gun in less than 30 sec too science? (unless they change that setting in later episode..which I have no idea since I have never watched it past episode 5)..that was more like a fairy tale to me and probably that was one of the reason to make me drop the show.

Anyway, I still hope Age can finish what it had intended to bring in the first place. Regarding to the next series, my suggestion would be the staff should just focus on making a good series instead of trying to appease all sides.

That is Called Science Fiction Techonology Marches On, heck even the Original Gundam run on tapes... YES ON TAPES

What is called fantasy for someone is the technology of the tomorrow.

[brightman]

Originally Posted by justavisitor

Anyway, I still hope Age can finish what it had intended to bring in the first place. Regarding to the next series, my suggestion would be the staff should just focus on making a good series instead of trying to appease all sides.

Any form of media production still needs to have a target audience... That sets the basis for what the creative team wants to achieve with the show.

I think they need to stick with the formula that has been working for them - teenagers. The most successful TV series all appealed to teenagers while the disappointments tend not to.

And the teen market is still a younger market than the average Gundam fan so there's your audience diversification right there.

Then again, the anime market has changed a ton since Gundam Seed revived the franchise in the early 00's, so it might not be as easy to repeat Seed's success in appealing to teenagers.

[monster]

Originally Posted by brightman

Then again, the anime market has changed a ton since Gundam Seed revived the franchise in the early 00's, so it might not be as easy to repeat Seed's success in appealing to teenagers.

Well, they'll just have to figure out what current teens could possibly be attracted to in an anime that features giant war machines piloted by humans, assuming they want to keep Gundam that way.

It doesn't even have to be for teens. Whichever market they choose, they just have to know what that market wants, produce it, and then correctly advertise that they have whatever it is the market wants. Of course, it's easier said than done, but it's not like Bandai/Sunrise is some startup company. They should know the business by now.

[bio9205]

Even though so many signs point to AGE not doing well and hence the high possibility that Sunrise cut the number of episodes, but after today's episode, I'm really hoping, praying, that (if they did cut) the second arc was cut so that they had more time for the third, and not that they're cutting AGE prematurely from the initially announced 50 episodes. The third arc is shaping up to be fantastic. Hated the first, loved the second, the third sets to blow the second away!

[atilim]

Gundam should just target on teens between the age of 13-16/17.

If what I read is true then Seed targeted teens and 00 targeted bit older audience.

However the animation of Seed doesn't really discourage the avarage older person since overall it isn't to light but also not to dark. The animation of 00 may have been to dark for teens and childeren. Also with dark I mean the animation and not the story, overall Seed looks a bit more childish then 00.

Also what every Gundam show needs are attractive fights with allot of acrobatics. In general my favourite scene's in any Gundam show is when they bring out Funnels (or whatever they call it) and the pilot has to dodge the attacks from every direction. Another good example of awsome fights is when kira and the Strike fight in the dessert. Put in some good background music to set the mood and your done.

Gundam Age was a nice experiment I hope Sunrise learns from the strength of Age and uses it in the next Gundam show.

The good point in Age are in my opinion the 3 stories, it would have been better if each arc lasted longer (26 eps).
Having commanders that aren't incompetent Flit is the first commander that uses tactics to defeat the enemy in all of Gundam, normally is just ''launch mobile suits and all ships fire beams'', at best you get individual captains giving out movement orders but nothing on a large scale.

[brightman]

Originally Posted by atilim

If what I read is true then Seed targeted teens and 00 targeted bit older audience.

00 was meant to target teens too. But it instead appealed to young adults more than teens.

However the animation of Seed doesn't really discourage the avarage older person since overall it isn't to light but also not to dark. The animation of 00 may have been to dark for teens and childeren. Also with dark I mean the animation and not the story, overall Seed looks a bit more childish then 00.

Its just an art style difference. They're both heavily influenced by the shoujo manga look, which is meant to aim at a preteen-teen demographic.

[SonicSP]

Originally Posted by bio9205

Even though so many signs point to AGE not doing well and hence the high possibility that Sunrise cut the number of episodes, but after today's episode, I'm really hoping, praying, that (if they did cut) the second arc was cut so that they had more time for the third, and not that they're cutting AGE prematurely from the initially announced 50 episodes. The third arc is shaping up to be fantastic. Hated the first, loved the second, the third sets to blow the second away!

I don't recall AGE's episode count to have ever been announced.

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

Likewise, I've never seen an official episode count.

[brightman]

Originally Posted by GN0010 Nosferatu

Likewise, I've never seen an official episode count.

They said it would be a year-long show, so its safe to assume that it would have been around 50 eps.

[Nivek von Beldo]

I've a little Discussion/Scenario for all the people here.

If the histories are true, Gundam AGE was 'mostly' planned by Level-5 as his own Original IP(i think their own effort to the mecha genre) but at the same time they won the right to make a Gundam Game, thus the Level-5 President show the 'prototype' of 'AGE'(pre gundam) to the sunrise executives and those were pretty interested in the original history and setting with the multimedia potential(with the potential to bring new fans to the franchise), and the rest is history...

But What if..... Level-5 never won the rights for the gundam game and they want to make the series for his own? maybe other toy titan(like Takara-Tommy or Hasbro) would give support(they have support in the tv space thanks to Inazuka sucess).

How the think would have fare?

What would have done Sunrise in this scenario? relauch Gundam SEED HD as the main gundam for the 2011? wait and them launch Gundam the Origin as the new series for the decade and a way to revive and bring more UC interest?

In fact I loved Gundam AGE So far, was the most Innovative thing since G gundam, but here the backlash was so bad... maybe as a Level-5 Original IP would fare better?

[SonicSP]

Backlash would only be from older Gundams fan, the way I see it they'll also be a decent amount of the fanbase that would and did try it out because the Gundam fanbase is quite big. Gundam is a famous name on it's own. The people who boycotted it from the start sound like they're unlikely to watch it if it wasn't Gundam either.

IMO, I still think the Gundam family brand here worked as a net positive for AGE, even if that positive might have been more lower than what the brand name have contributed to other animation series in the past. In a worst case scenario, it probably would have had a net neutral effect rather than say a net negative effect to how much it attracts people in the series. I could be wrong but that's what I think is the case at the moment.

It might have seem more successful if it wasn't branded Gundam but that may be the fact that you'll have little to no conservative Gundam fans jumping to it. I'm no expert in TV ratings but I recall hearing comments here that the TV ratings for Gen I aren't really that bad as TV ratings, they're just bad for TV Ratings for a Gundam series standards. It's lowered since then though so who knows, perhaps it is bad now as well.