AnimeSuki Forums

synaesthetic · 2011-04-19, 03:34

Or, vsfilter being a whore. I haven't figured it out yet.

I was watching Seitokai Yakuindomo earlier, the Ayako sub, and the intermission scenes drop frames like mad. No A/V desync though, and it catches up instantly after the intermission scenes are done.

It's not a lack of processing power; my laptop has a Core i5-450M. These files barely go over 20% CPU utilization.

The only thing I can think of is that vsfilter is somehow causing problems. With subs off, it doesn't happen.

namaiki · 2011-04-19, 07:58

You could try enable the 'Pre-buffer subpictures' option in VSFilter on the Misc tab to drop rendering of subtitles when it can't keep up if you aren't already.

Mentar · 2011-04-19, 09:37

Do NOT do this unless your CPU is totally insufficient. Sub-picture prebuffering deactivates any kind of moving signs and effected subs.

Dist · 2011-04-19, 16:59

It's a problem with the subs .. I suppose. I remember having similar if not same problem and it only happened with a certain group's releases .. Though I can't recall now which but it probably is the same one. I'd get them from another group and see if it still happens.

synaesthetic · 2011-04-19, 17:28

My CPU is more than sufficient. Sub-picture prebuffering ruins half the effects and doesn't fix the problem.

sneaker · 2011-04-19, 18:03

Which episode (with CRC) is it and at what time does it happen? Kinda curious to test it myself.

Also 20% CPU can mean a lot if the application isn't multi threaded and the CPU has 4 (real+virtual) cores like yours.

synaesthetic · 2011-04-19, 18:37

It was most noticeable in [Ayako]_Seitokai_Yakuindomo_-_08_[720p][H264][43B95F18].mkv, though all of them exhibit the same problem to some degree.

Time is, well, it's a every time the little title card comes in and does the red-stamp effect, there's softsubs translating the stamps. That's when it drops frames.

I am using ffdshow-mt to decode (so it's multithreaded), and my CPU isn't scaling up the multiplier much, so I don't know exactly how much power it's taking to decode. Task Manager shows 20-30% CPU utilization for most 720p H264 encodes, but CPU-Z tells me the CPU isn't even ramping up that much--multiplier stays at either x11 or x13, clockspeed stays at or below 1.7GHz. Spikes a bit here and there, but generally stays around that.

Edit: Worst bit is 16:55-17:00. Really obvious there. Multiplier hit x20 at that point, but utilization stayed below 35%. Must be borked subs.

sneaker · 2011-04-19, 18:53

ffdshow may be multithread, but vsfilter is not AFAIK. Don't just look at the percentage but also at the CPU usage graphs to right - it's sufficient if a single graph reaches the top for the playback to become choppy, even if overall CPU usage is well under 50%.

But I have to agree: I would be surprised, too, if your CPU couldn't handle it. I heard there were some vsfilter versions with increased CPU usage (I just tested this one), so maybe you could try a different one. Another option would be to try MPC's internal renderer, ffdshow's subtitle renderer or freeing up additional CPU by using DXVA.

But in general I think your CPU should be enough to handle it. You don't have "double resolution" ticked in vsfilter, do you?

About your CPU clock speed - are any power saving features activated that would stop the CPU from going all out?

Dist · 2011-04-19, 18:54

I wasn't sure what you meant by intermission but now that you explained it .. Yeah, it's a problem with Ayako's releases. I didn't have this problem with Ryuumaru so you may want to try them, or CoalGirls for BD. Or, you can keep fiddling with the settings but I find that kinda pointless since you'll end up with settings that may then cause problems with other releases that work fine now though.

I'm using a bit older processor than you .. That being Phenom II X4 3.0ghz but it's a 720p anime so if it was encoded correctly, it would work properly.

Edit : I thought so .. I had same problem with some other anime and they had included two subtitles track and advised to switch to the second if the first one caused problems. I tried it, and it works for Yakuindomo too .. There's two available so just right click on the white icon thingy and pick the second one.

synaesthetic · 2011-04-19, 19:13

Looks like wonky subbing, thanks guys. I tried a different release of the same episode and the problem doesn't exist.

sneaker · 2011-04-19, 19:20

Well, I guess animated subs just hook up a lot of resources (esp. with vsfilter). Not really a fault of the group per se.

namaiki · 2011-04-19, 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mentar

Do NOT do this unless your CPU is totally insufficient. Sub-picture prebuffering deactivates any kind of moving signs and effected subs.

The latest VSFilter buffers effects as well.

sneaker · 2011-04-19, 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by namaiki

The latest VSFilter buffers effects as well.

Seems to work indeed. Can't believe someone's still working on that one. Too bad no one ported libass to DirectShow yet, while even VLC has it.

synaesthetic · 2011-04-19, 21:31

Thing is, if they were actually eating a lot of resources, then I'd be able to see it. But I'm not seeing my CPU hit anywhere near 100% utilization, so it's not running out of processing power. It's either the subs themselves or vsfilter being a pain in the ass. I'll have to update vsfilter (my version is probably old) and see if that helps.

Thanks for everything, folks.

2011-04-19, 03:34	Link #1
synaesthetic blinded by blood Author Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Oakland, CA Age: 40	Weird framedrop problem Or, vsfilter being a whore. I haven't figured it out yet. I was watching Seitokai Yakuindomo earlier, the Ayako sub, and the intermission scenes drop frames like mad. No A/V desync though, and it catches up instantly after the intermission scenes are done. It's not a lack of processing power; my laptop has a Core i5-450M. These files barely go over 20% CPU utilization. The only thing I can think of is that vsfilter is somehow causing problems. With subs off, it doesn't happen. __________________ Indie science fiction author and all-around weirdo: Check out my original fiction here! Read an excerpt from my sci-fi novel Binary System!

2011-04-19, 16:59	Link #4
Dist Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Finland Age: 33	It's a problem with the subs .. I suppose. I remember having similar if not same problem and it only happened with a certain group's releases .. Though I can't recall now which but it probably is the same one. I'd get them from another group and see if it still happens. __________________

2011-04-19, 17:28	Link #5
synaesthetic blinded by blood Author Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Oakland, CA Age: 40	My CPU is more than sufficient. Sub-picture prebuffering ruins half the effects and doesn't fix the problem. __________________ Indie science fiction author and all-around weirdo: Check out my original fiction here! Read an excerpt from my sci-fi novel Binary System!

2011-04-19, 18:37	Link #7
synaesthetic blinded by blood Author Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Oakland, CA Age: 40	It was most noticeable in [Ayako]_Seitokai_Yakuindomo_-_08_[720p][H264][43B95F18].mkv, though all of them exhibit the same problem to some degree. Time is, well, it's a every time the little title card comes in and does the red-stamp effect, there's softsubs translating the stamps. That's when it drops frames. I am using ffdshow-mt to decode (so it's multithreaded), and my CPU isn't scaling up the multiplier much, so I don't know exactly how much power it's taking to decode. Task Manager shows 20-30% CPU utilization for most 720p H264 encodes, but CPU-Z tells me the CPU isn't even ramping up that much--multiplier stays at either x11 or x13, clockspeed stays at or below 1.7GHz. Spikes a bit here and there, but generally stays around that. Edit: Worst bit is 16:55-17:00. Really obvious there. Multiplier hit x20 at that point, but utilization stayed below 35%. Must be borked subs. __________________ Indie science fiction author and all-around weirdo: Check out my original fiction here! Read an excerpt from my sci-fi novel Binary System!

2011-04-19, 18:54	Link #9
Dist Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Finland Age: 33	I wasn't sure what you meant by intermission but now that you explained it .. Yeah, it's a problem with Ayako's releases. I didn't have this problem with Ryuumaru so you may want to try them, or CoalGirls for BD. Or, you can keep fiddling with the settings but I find that kinda pointless since you'll end up with settings that may then cause problems with other releases that work fine now though. I'm using a bit older processor than you .. That being Phenom II X4 3.0ghz but it's a 720p anime so if it was encoded correctly, it would work properly. Edit : I thought so .. I had same problem with some other anime and they had included two subtitles track and advised to switch to the second if the first one caused problems. I tried it, and it works for Yakuindomo too .. There's two available so just right click on the white icon thingy and pick the second one. __________________

2011-04-19, 07:58	Link #2
namaiki Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia	You could try enable the 'Pre-buffer subpictures' option in VSFilter on the Misc tab to drop rendering of subtitles when it can't keep up if you aren't already.

2011-04-19, 09:37	Link #3
Mentar Banned Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Hamburg Age: 54	Do NOT do this unless your CPU is totally insufficient. Sub-picture prebuffering deactivates any kind of moving signs and effected subs.

2011-04-19, 18:03	Link #6
sneaker Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008	Which episode (with CRC) is it and at what time does it happen? Kinda curious to test it myself. Also 20% CPU can mean a lot if the application isn't multi threaded and the CPU has 4 (real+virtual) cores like yours.

2011-04-19, 18:53	Link #8
sneaker Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008	ffdshow may be multithread, but vsfilter is not AFAIK. Don't just look at the percentage but also at the CPU usage graphs to right - it's sufficient if a single graph reaches the top for the playback to become choppy, even if overall CPU usage is well under 50%. But I have to agree: I would be surprised, too, if your CPU couldn't handle it. I heard there were some vsfilter versions with increased CPU usage (I just tested this one), so maybe you could try a different one. Another option would be to try MPC's internal renderer, ffdshow's subtitle renderer or freeing up additional CPU by using DXVA. But in general I think your CPU should be enough to handle it. You don't have "double resolution" ticked in vsfilter, do you? About your CPU clock speed - are any power saving features activated that would stop the CPU from going all out?

2011-04-19, 19:13	Link #10
synaesthetic blinded by blood Author Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Oakland, CA Age: 40	Looks like wonky subbing, thanks guys. I tried a different release of the same episode and the problem doesn't exist. __________________ Indie science fiction author and all-around weirdo: Check out my original fiction here! Read an excerpt from my sci-fi novel Binary System!

2011-04-19, 19:20	Link #11
sneaker Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008	Well, I guess animated subs just hook up a lot of resources (esp. with vsfilter). Not really a fault of the group per se.

2011-04-19, 21:31	Link #14
synaesthetic blinded by blood Author Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Oakland, CA Age: 40	Thing is, if they were actually eating a lot of resources, then I'd be able to see it. But I'm not seeing my CPU hit anywhere near 100% utilization, so it's not running out of processing power. It's either the subs themselves or vsfilter being a pain in the ass. I'll have to update vsfilter (my version is probably old) and see if that helps. Thanks for everything, folks. __________________ Indie science fiction author and all-around weirdo: Check out my original fiction here! Read an excerpt from my sci-fi novel Binary System!