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ZeroXSEED · 2012-02-11, 01:55

I'm not very sure, in fact, even though using Charl the way he did in canon automatically making him an ass, we never know what kind of people actually he is.

We never know his reason not talk to Charl heart to heart. We never know why he still kept Charl until she turned 7 instead of banish her right away or even abort her. And more, why must Charlotte who's sent to be close with Ichika, instead of random girl that is totally loyal to him.

There's more question I want to ask regarding his position as villain, and now you know most of them.

Note: Yes, he did, she already appear as early as the last part of chapter 7. As for how he reached second shift... Tabane likened the creation of Setsura with a cancer

Eratas123 · 2012-02-11, 01:58

Charlotte was sent because of her high IS ranking, not her identity. He probably would've sent for anyone if they had the same rank or higher as her.

demino_hellsin · 2012-02-11, 02:11

would it be a boring upgrade to go from AIC to near identically psychokinesis?

ZeroXSEED · 2012-02-11, 02:12

@ Demi

Yes, it's boring... and more of a handwave than technobabble. No offense.

Just remember about your complain about the underwhelming performance of the BITs, remember that even in Gundam (minus 00's Fangs, which I hate) Funnel/Bit/Incom wasn't supposed to be used within atmosphere.

For example, Chaos Gundam has one, but they're not much more agile than the mecha carried it.

And now we knew

demino_hellsin · 2012-02-11, 02:19

Thought so... so hard to actually give Laura a real one off ability.

The BIT performance being so poor could be excused with that argument but... aren't they also under influence of PIC? meaning they also have anti-grav and are able to ignore the law of inertia?

StratoSpear · 2012-02-11, 02:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by demino_hellsin

The BIT performance being so poor could be excused with that argument but... aren't they also under influence of PIC? meaning they also have anti-grav and are able to ignore the law of inertia?

This.

I thought this would be the issue as to why remote weapons in IS would be as effective as it would out-of-atmosphere.

ZeroXSEED · 2012-02-11, 02:23

I never said about gravity, I said about air resistance, but you're right...

They might as well has the same barrier that solve the aerodynamic issue of the parent unit... because if they didn't, that would explain their piss-poor performance

demino_hellsin · 2012-02-11, 02:27

the bits look a bit too streamlined to be bothered by airflow that much. Remember that they look a lot like arrow head or pointy at the tip and fattens towards the rear? That's not only to make it look sharp but that's aerodynamic design right there. The fact they're quite flat also suggest aerodynamic design on top of being more compact.

EDIT: I can only imagine the bit control interface being inferior to that of gundam which puts a lot of stress on the pilot. Also the pilots in gundam are either superhuman or using quantum computer assistance. But still, It's the IS! quantum computer computations should be nothing @_@

ZeroXSEED · 2012-02-11, 02:31

Still basically a glorified missile.

If so, then we has no explanation except "Cecilia suck" because M operate her BITs at such efficiency that she's almost invincible, even against three unit.

demino_hellsin · 2012-02-11, 02:35

I blame it more on the fact that since Cecilia is the only one thus far who can actually use them that well, she assumes that there is no higher degree of control. So she got conscious or subconsciously too comfy with that fact.

ZeroXSEED · 2012-02-11, 02:43

In my fic, Madoka explained it as 'using two at a time', that is, alternating between BITs in a well-calculated arrangement, allowing her to move and even fought using rifle and bayonet.

Cecilia is too dependent of attacking with all of the BITs at the same time, therefore giving a certain problem about burdening CPU.

Justified that Silent Zephyr has 15% higher computational speed.

demino_hellsin · 2012-02-11, 02:55

Hmmm basic ideas for Laura 2nd shift.

collapsible quad rail gun array

armored heavy mode

agile blitz mode

ZeroXSEED · 2012-02-11, 02:58

Elaborate

demino_hellsin · 2012-02-11, 03:20

Spoiler for Scwarzer Regen 2nd shift development log:

When I studied Scwarzer Regen's frame, it's much like other IS in that it's actually very thin. The heavy hitting nature of it only comes from the railgun. So seeing as the SR was actually a melee suit, I thought of how should I deal with this thing that seems so out of place? Then I remembered an interest I had in multi-barrel guns which somehow led into quad barrel flak cannons that saw service in the German army. Thus I was inspired to make a quad railgun array as an upgrade for Schwarzer Regen.

However 4 railguns would be bulky. How to solve this? I initially decided to use only 2 railguns and then split the barrels to use them as magnetic field emitters that could see use as ion boosters or magnetic shield. But that seemed too odd so I went with the quad cannon approach again. This time I tried to cut the barrel into pieces. These pieces are all highly magnetic and the shape seemed to be similar to most heavy mecha I've seen before. So I imagined storing those on the Scwarzer Regen's fore-arms so they'd also double as bracers. The bracers are connected via pure magnetism which is quite powerful considering what they're used for. The plasma blade stick out since the rails don't compeltely encolse around the arm.

The beam blades, I initially left them as is and tried to give them a beam pistol function but I didn't really have an idea how. But now it may be plausible to actually add another plasma blade unit on the overhand side and use the magnetic fields of the rails to focus and fire beam bolts.

The daggers which were originally distributed to the skirt, leg and boosters were initially modified so the boosters could hold 3 wire-guided daggers each and the skirt could hold anothe r6 larger versions of the original wire daggers. However that idea is scraped as it would seem too awkward. Currently the wire guided daggers have no place in the design. However the booster units have been increased to 4 and serve as the main firing mechanism of the railgun.

The current design of SR 2nd shift focuses more on artillary than before but still allows fine use of its melee capabilities giving it a somewhat balanced all-range combat capabilities.

The heavy form features the attatchment of the rails as gauntlets and greaves which give greater physical defense as well as heavier blows. The boosters cluster as one single back unit that functions as a magnetic ion booster to compensate the speed lost due to weight. The rails, in this form can use the magnetic fields they exert as focusing barrels for the charged particles released by the beam blade emitters to allow a limited beam pistol/cannon function. A function I'm contemplating is the additional function of using the magnetic fields to control the motions of the rails on the arms and legs to increase ease of motion.

The offensive blitz form purges the rails and combines with the boosters to comprise the quad rail gun array. This quad railgun array can be used normally for artillary fire. Instead of a purging system, the railguns can be reorganized into a separated ion booster array which can function as high speed ion thrusters.

huge wall o text

EDIT: erm... too elaborate?

EthernalRain · 2012-02-11, 03:27

Here if anyone needs it.

ZeroXSEED · 2012-02-11, 03:32

@ Demi

Using gunbarrel as armor/parrying weapon was well known as... rather dumb decision, ever since the invention of guns. It's not about potential, but about the risk.

Otherwise, the rest of concept is interesting and plausible.

@ Rain

Join the mayhem of tech-wank

Eratas123 · 2012-02-11, 03:35

@ Rain - Welcome

@ Senpai - Any idea what the IS runs off of? It can't be nuclear power.

demino_hellsin · 2012-02-11, 03:36

but the rails are actually quite thick

even as compared to standard gunpowder fire arms. I think railguns use far heavier and sturdier barrels. Though they can act purely as magnetic field emitter and repel/minimize damage from physical bullets.

ZeroXSEED · 2012-02-11, 03:43

@ Eras
Magic.

On a more serious note, I theorized it as Proton Decay or Matter-antimatter, or even more esoteric source than that. How else it can obtain such high power output despite the small size of the core (which ALSO contains microcomputer)

@ Demi

And then you find the rails are chipped/bent, and there's no guarantee the bullet used in I.S. firearm are ferromagnetic

Once again, it's an interesting concept, and seriously cool, unless you want to go realistic (which... admittedly equal to trying too hard, like me

)

I propose third solution: It wasn't the rail that make the rail gun bulky, but the railgun FRAME, which can be used as additional armor, at the risk of exposing the (theoretically) fragile rails.

Eratas123 · 2012-02-11, 03:44

Next chapter of White Knight is 12k words.......I think I'm in over my head here.

Side note - Reading Negima and Baka to Test to get ideas.

@ Senpai - Maybe they solved the fuel problem in their world

Also, how odd is it for a male to know girlish hobbies?

2012-02-11, 01:55	Link #21621
ZeroXSEED I am no one Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Inside your head	I'm not very sure, in fact, even though using Charl the way he did in canon automatically making him an ass, we never know what kind of people actually he is. We never know his reason not talk to Charl heart to heart. We never know why he still kept Charl until she turned 7 instead of banish her right away or even abort her. And more, why must Charlotte who's sent to be close with Ichika, instead of random girl that is totally loyal to him. There's more question I want to ask regarding his position as villain, and now you know most of them. Note: Yes, he did, she already appear as early as the last part of chapter 7. As for how he reached second shift... Tabane likened the creation of Setsura with a cancer __________________

2012-02-11, 01:58	Link #21622
Eratas123 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011	Charlotte was sent because of her high IS ranking, not her identity. He probably would've sent for anyone if they had the same rank or higher as her. __________________

2012-02-11, 02:12	Link #21624
ZeroXSEED I am no one Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Inside your head	@ Demi Yes, it's boring... and more of a handwave than technobabble. No offense. Just remember about your complain about the underwhelming performance of the BITs, remember that even in Gundam (minus 00's Fangs, which I hate) Funnel/Bit/Incom wasn't supposed to be used within atmosphere. For example, Chaos Gundam has one, but they're not much more agile than the mecha carried it. And now we knew __________________

2012-02-11, 02:23	Link #21627
ZeroXSEED I am no one Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Inside your head	I never said about gravity, I said about air resistance, but you're right... They might as well has the same barrier that solve the aerodynamic issue of the parent unit... because if they didn't, that would explain their piss-poor performance __________________

2012-02-11, 02:31	Link #21629
ZeroXSEED I am no one Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Inside your head	Still basically a glorified missile. If so, then we has no explanation except "Cecilia suck" because M operate her BITs at such efficiency that she's almost invincible, even against three unit. __________________

2012-02-11, 02:11	Link #21623
demino_hellsin That one guy Join Date: Nov 2011	would it be a boring upgrade to go from AIC to near identically psychokinesis?

2012-02-11, 02:19	Link #21625
demino_hellsin That one guy Join Date: Nov 2011	Thought so... so hard to actually give Laura a real one off ability. The BIT performance being so poor could be excused with that argument but... aren't they also under influence of PIC? meaning they also have anti-grav and are able to ignore the law of inertia?

2012-02-11, 02:27	Link #21628
demino_hellsin That one guy Join Date: Nov 2011	the bits look a bit too streamlined to be bothered by airflow that much. Remember that they look a lot like arrow head or pointy at the tip and fattens towards the rear? That's not only to make it look sharp but that's aerodynamic design right there. The fact they're quite flat also suggest aerodynamic design on top of being more compact. EDIT: I can only imagine the bit control interface being inferior to that of gundam which puts a lot of stress on the pilot. Also the pilots in gundam are either superhuman or using quantum computer assistance. But still, It's the IS! quantum computer computations should be nothing @_@

2012-02-11, 02:35	Link #21630
demino_hellsin That one guy Join Date: Nov 2011	I blame it more on the fact that since Cecilia is the only one thus far who can actually use them that well, she assumes that there is no higher degree of control. So she got conscious or subconsciously too comfy with that fact.

2012-02-11, 02:43	Link #21631
ZeroXSEED I am no one Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Inside your head	In my fic, Madoka explained it as 'using two at a time', that is, alternating between BITs in a well-calculated arrangement, allowing her to move and even fought using rifle and bayonet. Cecilia is too dependent of attacking with all of the BITs at the same time, therefore giving a certain problem about burdening CPU. Justified that Silent Zephyr has 15% higher computational speed. __________________

2012-02-11, 02:55	Link #21632
demino_hellsin That one guy Join Date: Nov 2011	Hmmm basic ideas for Laura 2nd shift. collapsible quad rail gun array armored heavy mode agile blitz mode

2012-02-11, 02:58	Link #21633
ZeroXSEED I am no one Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Inside your head	Elaborate __________________

2012-02-11, 03:20	Link #21634
demino_hellsin That one guy Join Date: Nov 2011	Spoiler for Scwarzer Regen 2nd shift development log: When I studied Scwarzer Regen's frame, it's much like other IS in that it's actually very thin. The heavy hitting nature of it only comes from the railgun. So seeing as the SR was actually a melee suit, I thought of how should I deal with this thing that seems so out of place? Then I remembered an interest I had in multi-barrel guns which somehow led into quad barrel flak cannons that saw service in the German army. Thus I was inspired to make a quad railgun array as an upgrade for Schwarzer Regen. However 4 railguns would be bulky. How to solve this? I initially decided to use only 2 railguns and then split the barrels to use them as magnetic field emitters that could see use as ion boosters or magnetic shield. But that seemed too odd so I went with the quad cannon approach again. This time I tried to cut the barrel into pieces. These pieces are all highly magnetic and the shape seemed to be similar to most heavy mecha I've seen before. So I imagined storing those on the Scwarzer Regen's fore-arms so they'd also double as bracers. The bracers are connected via pure magnetism which is quite powerful considering what they're used for. The plasma blade stick out since the rails don't compeltely encolse around the arm. The beam blades, I initially left them as is and tried to give them a beam pistol function but I didn't really have an idea how. But now it may be plausible to actually add another plasma blade unit on the overhand side and use the magnetic fields of the rails to focus and fire beam bolts. The daggers which were originally distributed to the skirt, leg and boosters were initially modified so the boosters could hold 3 wire-guided daggers each and the skirt could hold anothe r6 larger versions of the original wire daggers. However that idea is scraped as it would seem too awkward. Currently the wire guided daggers have no place in the design. However the booster units have been increased to 4 and serve as the main firing mechanism of the railgun. The current design of SR 2nd shift focuses more on artillary than before but still allows fine use of its melee capabilities giving it a somewhat balanced all-range combat capabilities. The heavy form features the attatchment of the rails as gauntlets and greaves which give greater physical defense as well as heavier blows. The boosters cluster as one single back unit that functions as a magnetic ion booster to compensate the speed lost due to weight. The rails, in this form can use the magnetic fields they exert as focusing barrels for the charged particles released by the beam blade emitters to allow a limited beam pistol/cannon function. A function I'm contemplating is the additional function of using the magnetic fields to control the motions of the rails on the arms and legs to increase ease of motion. The offensive blitz form purges the rails and combines with the boosters to comprise the quad rail gun array. This quad railgun array can be used normally for artillary fire. Instead of a purging system, the railguns can be reorganized into a separated ion booster array which can function as high speed ion thrusters. huge wall o text EDIT: erm... too elaborate? Last edited by demino_hellsin; 2012-02-11 at 03:30.

2012-02-11, 03:27	Link #21635
EthernalRain Head of FRACTURE R&D Join Date: Oct 2011	Here if anyone needs it.

2012-02-11, 03:32	Link #21636
ZeroXSEED I am no one Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Inside your head	@ Demi Using gunbarrel as armor/parrying weapon was well known as... rather dumb decision, ever since the invention of guns. It's not about potential, but about the risk. Otherwise, the rest of concept is interesting and plausible. @ Rain Join the mayhem of tech-wank __________________

2012-02-11, 03:35	Link #21637
Eratas123 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011	@ Rain - Welcome @ Senpai - Any idea what the IS runs off of? It can't be nuclear power. __________________

2012-02-11, 03:36	Link #21638
demino_hellsin That one guy Join Date: Nov 2011	but the rails are actually quite thick even as compared to standard gunpowder fire arms. I think railguns use far heavier and sturdier barrels. Though they can act purely as magnetic field emitter and repel/minimize damage from physical bullets.

2012-02-11, 03:43	Link #21639
ZeroXSEED I am no one Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Inside your head	@ Eras Magic. On a more serious note, I theorized it as Proton Decay or Matter-antimatter, or even more esoteric source than that. How else it can obtain such high power output despite the small size of the core (which ALSO contains microcomputer) @ Demi And then you find the rails are chipped/bent, and there's no guarantee the bullet used in I.S. firearm are ferromagnetic Once again, it's an interesting concept, and seriously cool, unless you want to go realistic (which... admittedly equal to trying too hard, like me ) I propose third solution: It wasn't the rail that make the rail gun bulky, but the railgun FRAME, which can be used as additional armor, at the risk of exposing the (theoretically) fragile rails. __________________

2012-02-11, 03:44	Link #21640
Eratas123 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011	Next chapter of White Knight is 12k words.......I think I'm in over my head here. Side note - Reading Negima and Baka to Test to get ideas. @ Senpai - Maybe they solved the fuel problem in their world Also, how odd is it for a male to know girlish hobbies? __________________