Fate/stay night Game discussion (Warning: Spoilers)

[Cherry_Lover]

Originally Posted by BladeEntity

After watching Fate/Zero Episode 1 I can't help but feel that there were some aspects that should have been covered in Fate and UBW route. Namely Sakura's situation which was only revealed in HF, honestly I felt that the Fate and UBW routes simply brushed her aside.

Well, it would have been nice, but I'm not sure how they could have done that without spoilering the plot of HF itself.

And sort of makes you wonder what kind of life she has after the war.

Yeah....

I dislike the Fate and (especially) UBW endings for this reason. They're played as "happy endings" and yet, behind the scenes, Sakura is left to be tortured by Zouken indefinitely.

Out of the 3 heroines I dislike Sakura and yet I feel her character needs to be concluded in the other routes.

Yeah, I wish Nasu would give at least some indication of what happens to her.

Seriously someone needs to kill Zokan

Yeah....

That's another thing that really irritates me with the Fate and UBW endings. How Zouken basically gets off scot-free for everything he's done.

Also, that's not really a spoiler, it's stated in the game that she was with the Matous for eleven years prior to FSN.

[whatbob1]

I think the problem with Sakura's situation for Fate and UBW is due to how Zouken is characterized and probably Nasu's fault as well. For Sakura to be saved, Zouken has to be defeated but he isn't even introduced at all in Fate or UBW.

And even if he was introduced in Fate or UBW, I think it was said he wasn't even planning on getting involved in the 5th war.

I honestly just think Nasu wrote Fate first, then UBW, and HF last. When he finished HF, he probably facepalmed or something and realized if he wanted to address Sakura's situation he would have to re-write Fate/UBW quite a bit and make Zouken the big bad guy instead of Kotomine and Gilgamesh for those two routes. But that would also mean having to re-do Zouken's characterization as well and where his soul is.

Now if Zouken had been portrayed as the big bad guy in Fate and UBW, then it would of address Sakura's situation without having to possibly spoil the plot for HF.

[Cherry_Lover]

Originally Posted by whatbob1

I think the problem with Sakura's situation for Fate and UBW is due to how Zouken is characterized and probably Nasu's fault as well.

Well, yeah. The whole way her situation is set up makes it hard to save her "incidentally".

For Sakura to be saved, Zouken has to be defeated but he isn't even introduced at all in Fate or UBW.

Yeah, exactly. But, if he was, it'd be a spoiler, so....

And even if he was introduced in Fate or UBW, I think it was said he wasn't even planning on getting involved in the 5th war.

Yeah.

I honestly just think Nasu wrote Fate first, then UBW, and HF last. When he finished HF, he probably facepalmed or something and realized if he wanted to address Sakura's situation he would have to re-write Fate/UBW quite a bit and make Zouken the big bad guy instead of Kotomine and Gilgamesh for those two routes. But that would also mean having to re-do Zouken's characterization as well and where his soul is.

That's probably partially true.

He almost certainly did write Fate and UBW before HF, but equally I think he had decided on Sakura's backstory before he actually wrote Fate and UBW in any detail. Certainly, there is enough foreshadowing in the first two routes that it's clear that Nasu had HF in mind when he wrote them, at least in part.

Now if Zouken had been portrayed as the big bad guy in Fate and UBW, then it would of address Sakura's situation without having to possibly spoil the plot for HF.

The problem with that is that it'd have made HF somewhat more anti-climatic. Also, given how Zouken is, addressing Sakura's situation without spoilering it would be very difficult.

[DragoZERO]

It's all about the heroine in each route. It happens in so many eroges. And I think leaving Sakura out of Fate and UBW made the drama of HF that much more powerful. There is no single route where everyone makes it out perfectly. They are separate stories, after all.

[Jaden]

Yep, same kind of writing in Tsukihime. It's definately something Nasu does deliberately, not some kind of oversight. In each ending the minor characters of the route get shafted, and some serious issue is left unresolved. It's not a problem as long as he doesn't make sequels.

[DragoZERO]

Not to mention Nasu is a major troll.

[Reckoner]

Saving someone means not saving another.

[Cherry_Lover]

Originally Posted by Jaden

Yep, same kind of writing in Tsukihime. It's definately something Nasu does deliberately, not some kind of oversight. In each ending the minor characters of the route get shafted, and some serious issue is left unresolved. It's not a problem as long as he doesn't make sequels.

It makes the ending of the first two routes totally shit in hindsight, though, especially given Sakura's relationship to Rin.

Plus, I don't recall seeing Saber getting shafted in UBW, or Rin getting shafted in any route, so why should Sakura be ignored?

[DragoZERO]

Originally Posted by Reckoner

Saving someone means not saving another.

You sir, deserve ten cookies for that. Excellent... simply excellent.

*applause*

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Reckoner

Saving someone means not saving another.

Screw that. Ilya's death in UBW almost made me cry. Saber's death in HF pissed me off. And Sakura's absence in the other two disturbed the hell out of me.

I want to save them all. DX

[alumnox]

Originally Posted by Haak

Screw that. Ilya's death in UBW almost made me cry. Saber's death in HF pissed me off. And Sakura's absence in the other two disturbed the hell out of me.

I want to save them all. DX

heheheh well I think that's why the games are awesome. The game makes you care for the characters to much that when you get the classic Nasu ending you just want to go to japan and kick his ass.

Yes I confess, I tried to save saber at the end in HF

I think the normal ending in UBW is the closest to everyone happy of course you need to overlook the fact that Sakura would continue under zouken vigilant care

And Ilya well this one its just sad anyway you look at it but we will find out more about it in fate /zero.

Ilia truly is one you can't save no matter what.

[Cherry_Lover]

Originally Posted by alumnox

I think the normal ending in UBW is the closest to everyone happy of course you need to overlook the fact that Sakura would continue under zouken vigilant care

In what way is UBW Good the closest to everyone being happy? Rider is dead, Ilya is dead and Sakura (who is Rin's sister and who Shirou sees as "family", remember) is still being tortured, with no obvious way to save her even if they do find out.

[Auria]

Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover

In what way is UBW Good the closest to everyone being happy? Rider is dead, Ilya is dead and Sakura (who is Rin's sister and who Shirou sees as "family", remember) is still being tortured, with no obvious way to save her even if they do find out.

Well, it was already admitted that Sakuras situation has to be overlooked to consider that a good ending (and at this point in the game you don't know anything about what will happen in the 3rd route), Rider is a servant so one doesn't expect her to stay in this world (tbh I found her presence in the HF true end even a bit awkward) and Ilya would have died soon anyway, so this route is probably one of the most positive endings F/SN has to offer, though it of course depends on the player's priorities

[Haak]

Paradoxically, I consider UBW Good End to be the worst one since it felt like the cheapest.

[Auria]

Originally Posted by Haak

Paradoxically, I consider UBW Good End to be the worst one since it felt like the cheapest.

Well, my analysis of this good end was under different aspects... I'm no fan of that ending either (This smiley is overused)

[alumnox]

Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover

In what way is UBW Good the closest to everyone being happy? Rider is dead, Ilya is dead and Sakura (who is Rin's sister and who Shirou sees as "family", remember) is still being tortured, with no obvious way to save her even if they do find out.

hehehe just as Auria said I was talking in terms of Nasu "happy endings".

Just as the tiger dojo says in life you just cant have it all.

About Rider surviving in HF (pure speculation here) I think that one comes from the fact that ataraxia was already an on going project and Stheno and Euryale (rider/medea sisters) existed at least as drawings since the initial FSN.

[Reckoner]

Originally Posted by Haak

Screw that. Ilya's death in UBW almost made me cry. Saber's death in HF pissed me off. And Sakura's absence in the other two disturbed the hell out of me.

I want to save them all. DX

Hey, hey, hey. It was the character in your avatar who said it, not me .

[Cherry_Lover]

Originally Posted by Auria

Well, it was already admitted that Sakuras situation has to be overlooked to consider that a good ending (and at this point in the game you don't know anything about what will happen in the 3rd route), Rider is a servant so one doesn't expect her to stay in this world (tbh I found her presence in the HF true end even a bit awkward) and Ilya would have died soon anyway, so this route is probably one of the most positive endings F/SN has to offer, though it of course depends on the player's priorities

But the only real difference between HF True and UBW Good is that Sakura has been saved and Saber has been swapped with Rider. Plus Ilya at least gets to die happy. So, how exactly is the UBW Good ending better?

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover

But the only real difference between HF True and UBW Good is that Sakura has been saved and Saber has been swapped with Rider. Plus Ilya at least gets to die happy. So, how exactly is the UBW Good ending better?

It all depends on what characters you like. For Saber fans, UBW Good is great because it's all the awesome of UBW with Saber at the end, which is why I like it. For people like those, UBW Good would be better than HF True.

Not to mention, all those innocent townspeople don't die in UBW Good, so if you feel pity for them...

[Cherry_Lover]

Originally Posted by Endscape

It all depends on what characters you like. For Saber fans, UBW Good is great because it's all the awesome of UBW with Saber at the end, which is why I like it. For people like those, UBW Good would be better than HF True.

Well, perhaps, but it's clearly not a truly "happy" ending, certainly not any more than HF True is anyway.

Not to mention, all those innocent townspeople don't die in UBW Good, so if you feel pity for them...

No, but it's said that there's going to be another big war in ten or so years time to shut down the Grail permanently, and innocent people are sure to die in that, so....