(L) UQ Holder (Ken Akamatsu's new series)

[Breimoon]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

Idiocy generaly refere to lack of IQ, actualy originaly it meant person is on mental level of three years old children or less. So drolling moron is quite fitting comparison.

Being hot-blooded and stupid isn't exclusive, but being genius and hot-blooded isn't exclusive either

Being idiot is metter of intelect, hot-bloodness of personality. There is no relation between these two.

idiot:
a stupid person or someone who is behaving in a stupid way

this taken from cambridge dictionary. So STUPID = IDIOT .

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Mars Mode

I think the problem is not the time it took Negi, it was the amount of chapters it took to develop.

I also dont like touta at this moment of history, not only because he is so cliche, but also because the history is all over the place. I think not even akamatsu has an ideaof what does he want. Not only he teases us repeatedly with Negi and little bit of connections with Negima, and doesnt give us something, he doesnt properly devote time to the proper characterization of Touta, which make me feel he is a Hollow human being. Its not like he is Medaka or something like that.

Quite the contrary, it's pretty clear to me that Akamatsu is up to something here. For Negima readers, Negi surely has done amazing things to make a great age to allow solar system olympic, but what is shown more is the shadow behind all that greatness. This shadow can never be shaken from all that Negi had achieved, and this is something that cannot be drawn in Negima because it will break the tone of the work.

While it's not uncommon to have all those abandoned town and slum setup, and hot headed guy may sound cliche, I found Touta is a bit different from the other hot headed heros and it's necessary storywise for him to be like that and in such history. The whole tone of the background being immortal and at the bottom layer of society is like a dark shadow, yet the scenarios so far has been carried out in a comedy tone, with Touta being the bright one. So it's quite clear that it's about becoming the light into the dark shadows.

One might ask, even genius like Negi have such flaw in his work, what can Touta do with the not the smartest group of head of him? But as many has noted Touta is very similar to Nagi (and it seems he's smart in ways similar to Nagi), and I think that might be the type of hero needed to cover what Negi has left behind. He may not going to change the whole world like Negi did, but it sounds like he will do something about it, and he need to find his mission in the way of his growth. IMHO that's what can be expected.

But surely it's taking a lot of chapters to develop the whole stage and Akamatsu surely should do something to keep people following. It's not everyone can appreciate his type of humor. Touta haven't developed much depth except for the first few chapters. The rush to jump through different stages seems like a bad move, but perhaps he's actually on schedule to reach certain stage by book 3.

[bludvein]

It's quite unfair for anyone to place blame for the current state of things on Negi. Just like Rakan quotes earlier in Negima, the world has to wipe its own ass. Negi is apparently dead, and he can't solve all the world's problems even if he wasn't. He did everything he set out to do and then some. The current situation doesn't "tarnish" that in any way.

[AstroNerdBoy]

Originally Posted by Endscape

I figured she taught him on the road.

Ah. No wonder. You just fill in the gaps with what you believe to be true, not what has actually been stated, thus what you believe to be true is true until told otherwise. That's fine. I now know where you are coming from. ^_^

The first tankoubon, with cover art, is up on Amazon JP. Not the usual Akamatsu-type cover IMO.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by galdr

Idiot hero =/= drooling moron.

Touta is obviously in the same archetype as Nagi Springfield.
Shonen hero who don't think long-term and use hot-blood spirit to carry through.
Example: Goku, Natsu, Naruto.

That's why I dislike that trope name, because it implies a lack of intelligence where there isn't always one. The trope would be better off named "Hot Blooded Hero" or something.

Originally Posted by Eisdrache

My definition of idiot isn't drooling moron either, so there goes your point. Super hotblooded and being an idiot aren't mutually exclusive traits in my eyes, they rather go hand-in-hand.

So you believe they're mutually inclusive then? All hot blooded people are idiots and all idiots are hot blooded people?

Originally Posted by AstroNerdBoy

Ah. No wonder. You just fill in the gaps with what you believe to be true, not what has actually been stated, thus what you believe to be true is true until told otherwise. That's fine. I now know where you are coming from. ^_^

*Shrugs*

Perhaps, but it's no different from you. I can't see you would believe he picked up shundo instantly, even though we know Eva was planning on teaching it to him, and we know they were having lessons on the road, and we know there was a gap in time. I'll go with what makes a little more sense.

[Alf]

Originally Posted by bludvein

It's quite unfair for anyone to place blame for the current state of things on Negi. Just like Rakan quotes earlier in Negima, the world has to wipe its own ass. Negi is apparently dead, and he can't solve all the world's problems even if he wasn't. He did everything he set out to do and then some. The current situation doesn't "tarnish" that in any way.

Actually I don't consider that a blame, but the way things work. Great things are done, but nothing is perfect. When the greatest time has passed, bad things emerge. It's just that we're first being shown the slum. I think it is necessary to let Touta see the bright side of city at some point to add more depth to the background for those who didn't read Negima.

[Eisdrache]

Originally Posted by Endscape

So you believe they're mutually inclusive then? All hot blooded people are idiots and all idiots are hot blooded people?

No I don't. Correct me if I misunderstood your argument, but it seems to me that you're saying that because Touta is hot-blooded he can't be an idiot. My impression of him was that he does a lot of silly/stupid/(idiotic?) things and therefore is an idiot. Whether this is caused by being hot-blooded or not is secondary.

[OverMaster]

Originally Posted by Endscape

Touta, as of right now, probably could not defeat Negi at the start of Negima!

Well, he can tank anything Negi can throw at him, thanks to his regen, other than (most likely) the forbidden ninth spell, which we've never seen but it's been hinted destroys the soul rather than damaging the body. In a normal fight, Start of Negima Negi was far more docile and less fight-crazy Touta is (not saying Touta is a bloodthirsty maniac, but he's far more likely to jump into a fight than Negi), so Touta would probably get the first hit. Let's not forget he's been training under Eva, being apparently fast enough to keep with her sparring and to surprise her in the baths (in a situation where Eva knew he was after her). So yeah, in addition to his broken healing, I'd say Touta has an edge on both combat training and speed on Start of Series Negi (Merdiana's courses didn't seem to have taught him too much on actual fighting, and it's unlikely anyone there was as good a teacher as Eva anyway). Since Negi would never use the ninth spell in a situation like this (it's an absolutely last do or die resource), and even if he were willing to, Touta could blitz him before he got the spell out, I'd give the win to Touta.

Negi's only real chance would be flying up with his staff and attacking from above, since Touta lacks flight, but Touta would still keep getting up from everything thrown at him (moreso considering Negi wouldn't want to kill him) and eventually Negi will tire down before he does. Not to mention, depending on the battlefield, Touta could find something to jump on to reach Negi.

The first tankoubon, with cover art, is up on Amazon JP. Not the usual Akamatsu-type cover IMO.

I hope he keeps including the little character bios with the full body portraits in the back covers. I always liked all of those.

It's quite unfair for anyone to place blame for the current state of things on Negi. Just like Rakan quotes earlier in Negima, the world has to wipe its own ass. Negi is apparently dead, and he can't solve all the world's problems even if he wasn't.

But if he had done nothing, Mundus Magicus would be bottled up in its own eternal fantasy (as disturbing as the concept is on its own) and thus Earth would never be in any danger of a war with it. The looming and eventual bloody war between worlds would have never happened if Negi hadn't interfered, so yes, it WAS his fault, even if unwillingly so. And we know how much Negi blames himself over everything anyway.

He did everything he set out to do and then some

So what's the lesson kids in the target audience will be getting from this? "No matter how much you do, no matter if you devote your whole life to a goal even sacrificing your own personal life, the world will be screwed regardless"? This isn't a simple matter of "Oh well, you tried but some things went wrong". That happens to everyone. THIS, however, is a much wider and more depressing affair. It's about thousands, probably millions of deaths in two worlds. It's not the kind of thing anyone can just shrug off and say "Let the world wipe its own ass", Rakan's words be damned, not like we have to believe the man, who let's not forget is irresponsible and could have prevented Ala Alba and thus Mundus Magicus a whole world of pain if he had just been at the place and time where he had agreed to be, has the word of a God. Rakan is cool and all, but he had no business trying to teach on responsibilities to anyone (I think even Konoka called him out on this once). Once Negi interfered, for better or worse, he had assumed responsibility on whatever his actions would unfold. Is it wrong to place such responsibility on a 10-year old? Certainly, but then blame Akamatsu for building the plot that way, and for the previous generation to fail at doing what had to be done (like finding a solution a child could figure out before them).

[kagato3]

Originally Posted by OverMaster

But if he had done nothing, Mundus Magicus would be bottled up in its own eternal fantasy (as disturbing as the concept is on its own) and thus Earth would never be in any danger of a war with it. The looming and eventual bloody war between worlds would have never happened if Negi hadn't interfered, so yes, it WAS his fault, even if unwillingly so. And we know how much Negi blames himself over everything anyway.

You are forgetting the unknown number of people that were "real" and there for could not be bottled up. They would either die in the collapse as they were thrown to the Martian surface or be force to settle back on earth potentially causing a population crisis that could end up with mage/normal war as resources become much tighter.

The slums aren't a direct result of the space elevator they are a result of the existing trend of urbanization as people move from rural areas to urban ones as they tend to offer more economic stability the only reason they are so bad here is that the elevator offer the greatest opportunity around

[bludvein]

Originally Posted by OverMaster

Well, he can tank anything Negi can throw at him, thanks to his regen, other than (most likely) the forbidden ninth spell, which we've never seen but it's been hinted destroys the soul rather than damaging the body. In a normal fight, Start of Negima Negi was far more docile and less fight-crazy Touta is (not saying Touta is a bloodthirsty maniac, but he's far more likely to jump into a fight than Negi), so Touta would probably get the first hit. Let's not forget he's been training under Eva, being apparently fast enough to keep with her sparring and to surprise her in the baths (in a situation where Eva knew he was after her). So yeah, in addition to his broken healing, I'd say Touta has an edge on both combat training and speed on Start of Series Negi (Merdiana's courses didn't seem to have taught him too much on actual fighting, and it's unlikely anyone there was as good a teacher as Eva anyway). Since Negi would never use the ninth spell in a situation like this (it's an absolutely last do or die resource), and even if he were willing to, Touta could blitz him before he got the spell out, I'd give the win to Touta.

Negi's only real chance would be flying up with his staff and attacking from above, since Touta lacks flight, but Touta would still keep getting up from everything thrown at him (moreso considering Negi wouldn't want to kill him) and eventually Negi will tire down before he does. Not to mention, depending on the battlefield, Touta could find something to jump on to reach Negi.



I hope he keeps including the little character bios with the full body portraits in the back covers. I always liked all of those.



But if he had done nothing, Mundus Magicus would be bottled up in its own eternal fantasy (as disturbing as the concept is on its own) and thus Earth would never be in any danger of a war with it. The looming and eventual bloody war between worlds would have never happened if Negi hadn't interfered, so yes, it WAS his fault, even if unwillingly so. And we know how much Negi blames himself over everything anyway.



So what's the lesson kids in the target audience will be getting from this? "No matter how much you do, no matter if you devote your whole life to a goal even sacrificing your own personal life, the world will be screwed regardless"? This isn't a simple matter of "Oh well, you tried but some things went wrong". That happens to everyone. THIS, however, is a much wider and more depressing affair. It's about thousands, probably millions of deaths in two worlds. It's not the kind of thing anyone can just shrug off and say "Let the world wipe its own ass", Rakan's words be damned, not like we have to believe the man, who let's not forget is irresponsible and could have prevented Ala Alba and thus Mundus Magicus a whole world of pain if he had just been at the place and time where he had agreed to be, has the word of a God. Rakan is cool and all, but he had no business trying to teach on responsibilities to anyone (I think even Konoka called him out on this once). Once Negi interfered, for better or worse, he had assumed responsibility on whatever his actions would unfold. Is it wrong to place such responsibility on a 10-year old? Certainly, but then blame Akamatsu for building the plot that way, and for the previous generation to fail at doing what had to be done (like finding a solution a child could figure out before them).

If the reader needs a moral, its that you can't solve the world's problems by yourself. People are people, with all the problems that come with that. The only way to totally eliminate that is to take away their free will. Negi was not some all-seeing protagonist that rights all the wrongs of the world.

Within the scope of what he set out to do he had total success. He secured a way for everyone to go on living and freed his dad.

[chaosprophet]

Originally Posted by kagato3

You are forgetting the unknown number of people that were "real" and there for could not be bottled up. They would either die in the collapse as they were thrown to the Martian surface or be force to settle back on earth potentially causing a population crisis that could end up with mage/normal war as resources become much tighter.

Actually from Dynamis explanation to Nodoka on chapter 279, normal people would also be enclosed and live in the eternal dream. They would leave their bodies behind, because their bodies are real, but their soul would be within CE.

Although one thing to consider is that, at the same time he stopped that option, (which seems like it wouldn't affect earth much, although we don't know how much that could affect the mages and mages societies in Earth with the Magic World suddenly gone) he also stopped the other possibles result of the strife which would means the natural end of the magic world or the CE ritual if Asuna wasn't placed at the Altar, which would do the same as the natural end but at once.

But once again I don't think the fact that there will be problems as a surprise nor against what Negi did. As humans, it's natural that problems will arise. We already were shown that back at Negima end with Mana epilogue. From it we can see that both in the timeline Negi apparently died early (likely UQ one?) and in the timeline after Asuna goes to the past, there will be a Mars Independence war. Should we blame Negi that? After all, if he just let the magical world in mars die there wouldn't be people in mars to start a war.

[OverMaster]

Originally Posted by chaosprophet

Should we blame Negi that?

If it's an unescapable outcome, the only real option is taking the Doylist approach rather than the Watsonian and blaming the author, since his stance is basically having it an unavoidable fact no matter what any generation (including the UQ Holder one) does, which is why I feel this is just a cosmic Shoot the Shaggy Dog story of sorts. I'm not sure of what was the mental proccess going behind the idea "You know what I need to top my universe of youth-oriented romantic adventures and comedies? An impossible to prevent all out war where two worlds are littered with corpses!" and I'm sure I'm better off not knowing, but Jesus.

It still doesn't change the fact he's making all the generation basically incompetent by plot default- judging from all Chao said, and what Asuna must have said about the future if this is the 355 timeline, Eva and Company must know very well where is everything leading to. They have had resources, manpower, and a whole lot of time; if they are just as unsuccessful at making the worlds coexist as the previous generations were, then either the world is impossible to save by any means, or they are just bad at it, by choice or incompetence.

[SoloPanda]

Originally Posted by OverMaster

If it's an unescapable outcome, the only real option is taking the Doylist approach rather than the Watsonian and blaming the author, since his stance is basically having it an unavoidable fact no matter what any generation (including the UQ Holder one) does, which is why I feel this is just a cosmic Shoot the Shaggy Dog story of sorts. I'm not sure of what was the mental proccess going behind the idea "You know what I need to top my universe of youth-oriented romantic adventures and comedies? An impossible to prevent all out war where two worlds are littered with corpses!" and I'm sure I'm better off not knowing, but Jesus.

It still doesn't change the fact he's making all the generation basically incompetent by plot default- judging from all Chao said, and what Asuna must have said about the future if this is the 355 timeline, Eva and Company must know very well where is everything leading to. They have had resources, manpower, and a whole lot of time; if they are just as unsuccessful at making the worlds coexist as the previous generations were, then either the world is impossible to save by any means, or they are just bad at it, by choice or incompetence.

I was under the impression that one of the underlying themes of these stories is that no matter how strong you are or smart, you can't fix the world. That's something Negi and Nagi both had to come to terms with in the last manga. They just had to do what they could about what was in front of them. I'm sure Touta will end up in a similar way. He'll learn some life lessons and fix the things he can and such. I'm sure UQ holder has been working to do what they can but they can't fix the world either. Remember that Negi learned that no matter what he does he will be the villain in someones eyes. Eva wasn't able to make a Utopia but I'm sure she prevented tragedy where she could.

[OverMaster]

We're running in circles. There's a difference between making an Utopia and making for a world that doesn't destroy itself. Even in the real world, two major powers with the power to destroy each other several times over and major conflicting interests can stay civil enough to avoid going to war (think of USA and the USSR for decades). Akamatsu just wants a global war for whatever reason and is forcing the outcome to that point despite having several generations of super geniuses and people with extraordinary resources who are supposed to have far more sincere intentions to avoid Armageddon than our world's leaders and scientists ever have been. It rings like he just wants to have an angsty outcome for the sake of it, despite not only clashing with the tone of most of his works so far making for a jarring global experience, but the fact managing grim and gritty isn't exactly his forte (think of how sloppily the whole drama with Asuna being sacrificed was handled, and how clumsily it was solved).

[Alf]

The disorder period in the 2050's don't necessary means full scale war. It can also be political/economical/social unstable status. Given the current condition of Japan, it is very understandable that a worse scenario being imaginable, and it is actually possible for minor warfare happening to Japan, because of its economical status.

[galdr]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

Idiocy generaly refere to lack of IQ, actualy originaly it meant person is on mental level of three years old children or less. So drolling moron is quite fitting comparison.

Being hot-blooded and stupid isn't exclusive, but being genius and hot-blooded isn't exclusive either

Being idiot is metter of intelect, hot-bloodness of personality. There is no relation between these two.

The reason why people usually used Idiot Hero is because those characters (Touta, Nagi) do action without using their brain first.

Like in previous chapter, Touta attacked the UQ Holder crews head on without waiting acknowledgment from Karin. He never considered that they are actually not the enemies.

[Breimoon]

new ch came out.

[Homura7]

Spoiler for 14:

Damn, Karin has got very well developed, curvaceous body.

[Breimoon]

Spoiler for 14:

does someone remember all the members of the organization 13? Cause i have bad memory and don't seem to remember any immortal one

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Breimoon

Spoiler for 14:

does someone remember all the members of the organization 13? Cause i have bad memory and don't seem to remember any immortal one

Well, Xemnas doesn't seem to die no matter how many times (and in how many forms) you kill him. And I don't think Roxas died at all, so....