(L) Tiger & Bunny (Sunrise)

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

No offense, but I think you've managed to completely miss the point of this show. This isn't built as a pure big budget action series, it's built as a deconstruction of the hero archetype, ...

No, it's not. A true deconstruction of the hero archetype would be Alan Moore's The Watchmen, or Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns.

Tiger and Bunny is a massive homage to the hero archetype, if anything.

I don't have any significant problems with the rest of your post, but no, this is not a deconstruction of the hero archetype. Indeed, this anime reflects the original spirit of superhero comics incredibly well. It's much closer to a reconstruction than a deconstruction.

...where the bonds that the heroes forge in their personal relationships take center stage and their personal problems frequently threaten to overwhelm their desire to do good and leave them in despair instead. Each episode is about overcoming each new challenge on a personal level and the heroes finding that which allows them to carry on doing good and being a hero for the people.

Yeah... and all of that is perfectly consistent with the spirit of superhero comics.

Hell, a really large chunk of Spiderman comic books can be summed up in the exact same way.

[Guardian Enzo]

Am I the only one who thought there were strong hints that something was "off" with Ben? As in, maybe even he's secretly in league with Maverick? His nervousness, too many close-ups, the odd timing of his arrival... It sure seemed that way to me.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

No, it's not. A true deconstruction of the hero archetype would be Alan Moore's The Watchmen, or Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns.

Tiger and Bunny is a massive homage to the hero archetype, if anything.

I don't have any significant problems with the rest of your post, but no, this is not a deconstruction of the hero archetype. Indeed, this anime reflects the original spirit of superhero comics incredibly well. It's much closer to a reconstruction than a deconstruction.

Yeah... and all of that is perfectly consistent with the spirit of superhero comics.

Hell, a really large chunk of Spiderman comic books can be summed up in the exact same way.

You might be right actually. Descontruction stories tend to deal more with superheroes gone rogue or anti-hero and giving into their human flaws. If anything I guess Lunatic is the only real example of a deconstruction type character while the others are more in line with classical hero ideals. Did classic superhero comics (Gold/Silver Age) really deal with personal issues though? I always though they were more camp fare where the good guy always wins and is pure good (Superman )and the bad guy is often pure generic evil and the story rarely concerns itself with what goes on in the heroes civilian identity. Might be wrong though as I've read very few if any stories from that era other than some DC ones my friend gave me that lead up to the legendary Crisis On Infinite Earths arc.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Am I the only one who thought there were strong hints that something was "off" with Ben? As in, maybe even he's secretly in league with Maverick? His nervousness, too many close-ups, the odd timing of his arrival... It sure seemed that way to me.

That actually crossed my mind aswell. I thought he was acting a little strange but it might've just been a mistake.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

You might be right actually. Descontruction stories tend to deal more with superheroes gone rogue or anti-hero and giving into their human flaws.

Right.

If anything I guess Lunatic is the only real example of a deconstruction type character while the others are more in line with classical hero ideals. Did classic superhero comics (Gold/Silver Age) really deal with personal issues though? I always though they were more camp fare where the good guy always wins and is pure good (Superman )and the bad guy is often pure generic evil and the story rarely concerns itself with what goes on in the heroes civilian identity. Might be wrong though as I've read very few if any stories from that era other than some DC ones my friend gave me that lead up to the legendary Crisis On Infinite Earths arc.

Well, in fairness to you, you could be right about pre-CoIE comic books.

I do think that Tiger and Bunny is playing around a bit with the hero archetype (this is mostly seen in the commercialization of heroes aspect), but for the most part, it plays the tropes straight.

But really, words like "homage" and "deconstruction" are just short-hand ways to try to capture what a show is aiming for. In the case of Tiger and Bunny, it is aiming to be more than just simply an action-packed blockbuster, I 100% agree with you there.

I think its trying to take the spirit of superheros, and challenge it with a very realistic world (but likely let the spirit succeed in the end). That's what makes Tiger and Bunny unique, imo.

[Jeffry2009]

Guys, did you guys saw the ep23 recently?! I was right, people! See?! I told you that Rotwang from ep15 will returned back! But you guys didn't believed me from what I said last time! He's the one who created Dark Tiger suit!

That Bastard! He's how working for Maverick & he's captured all of the Heroes including Kaede just like that!?

Where's Lunatic where I need him...

[orion]

Originally Posted by Jeffry2009

Where's Lunatic where I need him...

At his desk laughing and prob wondering what the hell were the heroes good for if they got caught by one robot.

[Saturn Beaver]

Originally Posted by orion

At his desk laughing and prob wondering what the hell were the heroes good for if they got caught by one robot.

He should talk, if I remember correctly he's also fighting the same robot before, and which one is missing while the other is still running around without a scratch...

[BetoJR]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Well, in fairness to you, you could be right about pre-CoIE comic books.

You guys should probably read some Marvel comics from the 60's or some DC ones from the 70's. Heroes with flaws and personal dramas have been around for quite a while. Just ask Stan Lee...

On topic, I just cannot wait for the next episode! This show is just too good!

[Triple_R]

I think that Lunatic is going to kill Maverick. I think he's viewing this whole conflict between the Heroes and Dark Tiger/Rotwang as a good distraction while he determines Maverick's location, and then hunts him down.

[Jeffry2009]

Originally Posted by orion

At his desk laughing and prob wondering what the hell were the heroes good for if they got caught by one robot.

You really think so?

[darkmanure]

Maybe the robot beat the beat out of Lunatic?

[Bombo]

Saito talking with speaker!? omg

[Wakan Tanka]

Originally Posted by Bombo

Saito talking with speaker!? omg

ROFL<< He's a tensai, though.

[Sackett]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Episode 23 thoughts below...

Spoiler for Tiger and Bunny Episode 23:

I really liked the appropriately short and intense Tiger vs. Bunny fight. Short of one hospitalizing the other - Which would set the stage for more angst than I think this show could handle in what time it has left - This was the best way they could have handled the fight, imo. I'm certainly not disappointed at all with this part of the episode. The animation and artwork looked fine to me.

Other elements I liked:

1. Maverick's real plan is a lot better and tighter than mass memory alteration alone was. That's very good to see. Its raised his quality as the final antagonist mastermind of this anime.

2. Bringing back Dr. Rotwang, and having him be the creator of Dark Tiger. This really helps tie several overarching plot-lines nicely together, creating a picture perfect package.


That being said, I have mixed feelings about keeping Dark Tiger vs. the other heroes off camera, and replacing that with a lengthy scene of Rotwang tormenting the heroes. The Rotwang scene is emotionally effective, but it is a bit cheesy, I admit. Given a choice between that Rotwang scene, or using its time allotment for Dark Tiger vs. the other heroes, I'm not really sure which I would have chosen myself. If anything, I'm probably leaning towards the latter.

Still, the drama and suspense in this episode is as good as ever, Maverick came across as a much more cunning and effective antagonist due to this episode, and all the scenes with Tiger and Bunny in them were truly fantastic.

9/10 for me. I'm really looking forward to the big climax!

Pretty much what I thought.

Although I also agree the "Bunny-chan" fix was handled badly. The short but intense fight was good, but the Barnaby recovering his memory was a bit jarring the way they presented it.

[awkwardanimals]

I honestly thought that Barnaby was going to regain his memory when Kotetsu showed him the Christmas pin...what was the point of all that stuff at the mall and the drawn out stuff with the pins if they weren't going to come up again?!

All in all, though, despite the fact that Kotetsu got Bunny's memories back fairly easily, the whole scene was pretty well done in my opinion. They could have dragged it out and made this a kind of flashback episode, but that would have been slow and melodramatic. They very quickly and effectively showed Kotetsu and Barnaby's relationship and how much Bunny means to him, and I think that was enough.

Ben and Kotetsu's friendship is adorable, I liked that part too. This episode was kind of weak, but only because it was meant to be buildup for the next two. It really just set them back where they were before all this memory nonsense, and exposed Maverick's whole scheme.

My thoughts on the next episode: Lunatic will be the star of the show. (I really, really, hope.) He kind of ducked out this episode and there's got to be a reason for that...

[vansonbee]

Bunny stop his attack, because of his nickname? So much for craze vengeances for his aunt...

The android was speculated like crazy, I've hope it was the aunt inside, so the team would of held back and lost.

Cliche all around~

and we need more Dragon Kid! She so close to moe, but there not enough screen time of her!

[Guardian Enzo]

I'm telling you, something isn't right with Ben. He didn't need to be there in this episode, yet he was in almost every scene - and acting suspiciously at that.

[kk2extreme]

Wait, where is scarf-tan?

[Key Board]

I'm going to say that the latest episode puzzled me

Spoiler:

It seem they have forgotten about Tiger's diminishing power problem. If he ever had one, I can't tell

The strength of Robo Tiger is also inconsistent. Tiger was judo throwing it just fine without his hundred power. Yet this same robot somehow managed to capture all of the other heroes.