(L+CR) Nagi no Asukara (Nagi-Asu: A Lull in the Sea)

[Reckoner]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Lastly, I also find some of this criticism of Chisaki for clinging to the past kind of silly. It's not as if she's an old maid, some spinster living in a tiny apartment with newspapers stacked to the ceiling and 25 cats. She's still a teenager - she has plenty of time to fall in love again. It was impossible for her to move on with Hikari missing, condition unknown - now that he's back, she's slowly and painfully coming to terms with the sad reality of their situation. What in the world is wrong with that?

Since a lot of this seemed to spawn off my original comment, or other people's as well, I at least think I should clarify my point of view here to distinguish it from other people.

There's nothing wrong with Chisaki. I just think that from a storytelling perspective this is the most boring possible route for her character. That's just a personal thing, not really a criticism of the show itself that I see in anyway as a real mark against it. Unrequited love stories like hers are just a dime a dozen in anime/manga (especially shojo manga). I'm just frankly a little bored of that kind of story at this time and would like to see something different.

[Raine721]

I think many people frustrations with Chisaki is that since ep 13-18, it feels as if she is slowly accepting change and slowly moving on and then BAM!! This episode and what she said in the end is like...wait a minute...are we back to square 1? I guess we're expecting progress in the characters emotional disputes with themselves and at ep 19...we're not really seeing much of that at all comparing to the first cour....Maybe we'll see that in the remaining 7 episodes.

[ChainLegacy]

Maybe my judgment is too colored by my own experience, but there's just so much maturation, growth, and change going on from ages 14 to 19. The hibernation thing is definitely a weird curveball to throw into the mix of adolescence, but even so, I have a hard time believing that she still actively loves Hikari - as his now senior of five years - after all of the life experience and maturation she (should have…) went through.

[Raine721]

I think it's depends on how critical we are in these kind of situations. Chisaki might have grown physically but really her mentality and emotions are frozen since 5 years ago. So she's being wishy washy between being an adult and a young teen. It shows this contrast when she tried on her HS uniform on and then went to find some plum wine to drink...It's some what understandable though cause you're 5 years older than your group of friends :/

[Blaat]

Originally Posted by Haak

It's a new meme.

That was a good laugh, thanks.

[ices]

Manaka Valentine Gift...



That's chocolate right?!

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Raine721

I think many people frustrations with Chisaki is that since ep 13-18, it feels as if she is slowly accepting change and slowly moving on and then BAM!! This episode and what she said in the end is like...wait a minute...are we back to square 1? I guess we're expecting progress in the characters emotional disputes with themselves and at ep 19...we're not really seeing much of that at all comparing to the first cour....Maybe we'll see that in the remaining 7 episodes.

Yes, exactly. Very well put. It's like she hasn't progressed one iota from Square 1. That is what bothers me. I don't expect her to have no lingering romantic feelings at all for Hikari. But this episode makes it seem to me like they're not even "lingering", but rather as strong as ever.

Originally Posted by Miraluka

You're just being pessismistic there.

No, I'm being realistic here. You're just being overly optimistic about the degree of unrequited love that most people can handle before it causes serious problems for them.

Because she isn't projecting herself or pushing situations that will show that

That depends on how you interpret certain scenes and pieces of dialogue.

You're going too material,

No, I'm not. You're neglecting the material because it's inconvenient to your argument. But the material is completely on-topic here and valid, because it's the material (how Chisaki's body is changing and what that means) that prompted the bit of dialogue between Chisaki and Tsumugu that I quoted before.

Maybe that's what you want but isn't what the shows is telling,

It's perfectly possible and reasonable to interpret this show as taking a critical view on people stubbornly holding on to unrequited love. Just because you might not like that interpretation doesn't make it invalid.

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

That said, it's equally unrealistic to think that Chisaki should now fall in love with Tsumugu because that is convenient.

I fully accept that you can't make yourself love another person.

[tezu]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Yes, exactly. Very well put. It's like she hasn't progressed one iota from Square 1. That is what bothers me. I don't expect her to have no lingering romantic feelings at all for Hikari. But this episode makes it seem to me like they're not even "lingering", but rather as strong as ever.

What probably contributed to this impression is how the episode started and ended with Chisaki's flashback. The first cour never explained why she liked Hikari (it only gave us some half-hearted explanation along the lines of "I'm in love with the Hikari who is in love with Manaka"). Now we're in the second cour, Chisaki already confessed and five years have passed. Suddenly, we're presented the whole depth of her love for Hikari. It's no surprise that for the viewer, her feelings come across as even stronger than in the first cour.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Yes, exactly. Very well put. It's like she hasn't progressed one iota from Square 1. That is what bothers me. I don't expect her to have no lingering romantic feelings at all for Hikari. But this episode makes it seem to me like they're not even "lingering", but rather as strong as ever.

I imagine it probably is as strong as ever.

But even if the degree is still the same, I felt the episode made some subtle points that her perception of her feelings has changed significantly, and I think that's what's important in deciding whether or not her unrequited love is unhealthy or not.

[Kirarakim]

Originally Posted by Haak

I imagine it probably is as strong as ever.

But even if the degree is still the same, I felt the episode made some subtle points that her perception of her feelings has changed significantly, and I think that's what's important in deciding whether or not her unrequited love is unhealthy or not.

Agreed (I realize I agree with you a lot on this thread Haak) even though Chisaki realizes she still has feelings for Hikari, I don't get the sense that she is the same 14 year old girl who thinks she is worthless next to Manaka. While Chisaki may regret that she is no longer that 14 year old girl in the wake of all her friends still being 14, I do think Chisaki has fundamentally changed and I expect she is not going to be depressed because Hikari doesn't love her back.

In fact I think Chisaki already got over the fact that Hikari didn't love her back in the 1st half. Now she can move forward even more with the realization that even after all this time she still has feelings for Hikari. But I think she needed to realize that to move forward. As Tsumugu said now that everyone has come back, things can finally move forward.

In fact I also found it interesting when Chisaki realized Miuna was in love with Hikari as well. I think Chisaki saw her 14 year old self in Miuna, the girl that was a bit jealous of Manaka. But I don't believe that Chisaki sees her current self in Miuna. At the very least I don't think Chisaki is going to have any mixed feelings about Manaka waking up the way that Miuna obviously will.

[Kazu-kun]

Chisaki's Zessica 2.0. Mark my words. She's going to end up a pathetic mess.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by tezu

What probably contributed to this impression is how the episode started and ended with Chisaki's flashback. The first cour never explained why she liked Hikari (it only gave us some half-hearted explanation along the lines of "I'm in love with the Hikari who is in love with Manaka"). Now we're in the second cour, Chisaki already confessed and five years have passed. Suddenly, we're presented the whole depth of her love for Hikari. It's no surprise that for the viewer, her feelings come across as even stronger than in the first cour.

This is a great post. Yes, you're right. Giving it more thought, it could just be a timing/directorial approach that's giving me a false impression. I honestly hope so.

That being said, I can see where Kazu-kun is coming from on the Zessica 2.0 bit. But only time will tell.

[Key Board]

Mari Okada's previous works have plenty of characters that faced unrequited love and moved on from it. Those that failed to do so tended to come across as sad, if not downright tragic, figures. The message is clear - Either you conquer your unrequited love, or it will conquer you.

I'm going to admit that I don't remember all of her works, but on top of my mind, Mari Okada works that are NOT an adaptation is True Tears, Aquarion EVOL and Darker than Black. DtB is action, and such thing never happened in Aquarion EVOL or True Tears. The protagonist was true to their first love. And the third wheel simply lost. It wasn't shown if they managed to move on or not.

Kaname, Miuna, Sayu are doomed to unrequited love.
Doesn't your own choice of words here tell you something? "Doomed" is a bad thing, is it not?

I think it's a sad thing because their chances are the lowest of low. They're not even a blip on the radar towards their objects of affections.
But it's not something they can control.

So do you think the show is saying that its impossible for people to get over unrequited love?

Because if so, that's an absolutely horrible message to be sending, in my view.

Personally, I think it's a much better and more healthy message to say that people should try to get over unrequited love, because if they don't, "doom" may await them (your own choice of words).

Depends on what "getting over" means.
You can't force yourself to love someone you don't.
And you can't force yourself to forget that you love someone either.

As I said before, everyone in this show is third-wheeling for someone else.
So what makes things different for one person and another?

There hasn't been any signs of a mutual romantic love, though I think Manaka and Hikari have a CHANCE for that. I think people give Hikari a pass for being stubborn because they subconsciously realize that he might succeed with Manaka.
Even though he's doing exactly what the other characters are doing. Meta level thinking.

And consider this.. I think Akari is an example where not giving up won her bittersweet happiness. Can you really be sure the show is preaching that people should "move on"? Because from a logical standpoint, Akari really should have just forgotten the guy.

Edit: you know. maybe that's it. Maybe the other characters were inspired by Akari

[VTHokiePride]

Tsumugu finally admits it after living with her for 5 years. Since everyone's back and time can move forward, maybe he'll act on his feelings.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Key Board

I'm going to admit that I don't remember all of her works, but on top of my mind, Mari Okada works that are NOT an adaptation is True Tears, Aquarion EVOL and Darker than Black. DtB is action, and such thing never happened in Aquarion EVOL or True Tears.

That's incorrect.

Spoiler for True Tears:

One of the main characters in True Tears was a character named Aiko who got over her unrequited love to the point that she was able to date a different guy who had a huge crush on her. By the end of the anime, Aiko seemed happy and contended to me.

It should be noted that Hanasaku Iroha and AnoHana are also Okada-wrote anime originals.

I think the endings of some of Okada's anime originals imply that some of the key characters got over their unrequited love.

I think it's a sad thing because their chances are the lowest of low. They're not even a blip on the radar towards their objects of affections.
But it's not something they can control.

That's not true. If it was true, people would never get over unrequited love. But plenty of people do. There was a girl I loved in high school who I haven't seen in several years, and I no longer love her. Just because you love somebody today doesn't mean you can't ever get over them.

In fact, I would say it's completely normal for people to fall in and out of love with people until they find someone that will love them back and that they're happy being with.

There hasn't been any signs of a mutual romantic love, though I think Manaka and Hikari have a CHANCE for that. I think people give Hikari a pass for being stubborn because they subconsciously realize that he might succeed with Manaka.
Even though he's doing exactly what the other characters are doing. Meta level thinking.

It's not just "Meta level thinking". It's also the fact that the overall way Manaka responded to Hikari's confession to her gives him reasonable basis for hope.

"Wave that flag, Hikari!"

Sure, it's a meta-joke, but it's also Manaka being very friendly and supportive towards Hikari after he confessed to her.


Plus, there's also the fact that Hikari understandably wants to save Manaka's very life. That would make sense even if his feelings for her was just simple friendship.

And consider this.. I think Akari is an example where not giving up won her bittersweet happiness.

Akari is a special case where she's in love with a widower, and there's reason to think that the widower loves her back. Akari's obstacle wasn't a lack of reciprocity, it was other people objecting to the romance. That's an entirely different kettle of fish than unrequited love, and the two shouldn't be equated like what you're doing here.

Can you really be sure the show is preaching that people should "move on"?

I think that's a perfectly reasonable and viable interpretation of this work thus far.

[Key Board]

I admit I completely forgot about Aiko or what her story was about.

that's not true. If it was true, people would never get over unrequited love. But plenty of people do. There was a girl I loved in high school who I haven't seen in several years, and I no longer love her. Just because you love somebody today doesn't mean you can't ever get over them.

In fact, I would say it's completely normal for people to fall in and out of love with people until they find someone that will love them back and that they're happy being with.

Likewise, there are also people who never gave up, and had their love returned in the end. All love is unrequited until it is requited.

It's not just "Meta level thinking". It's also the fact that the overall way Manaka responded to Hikari's confession to her gives him reasonable basis for hope.

"Wave that flag, Hikari!"

Sure, it's a meta-joke, but it's also Manaka being very friendly and supportive towards Hikari after he confessed to her.


Plus, there's also the fact that Hikari understandably wants to save Manaka's very life. That would make sense even if his feelings for her was just simple friendship.

Manaka was interested in Tsumugu initially
and Hikari was clearly bitter about it
Hikari's love(crush) for Manaka was unrequited then.
If he does succeed with Manaka isn't it because he didn't give up?

Akari is a special case where she's in love with a widower, and there's reason to think that the widower loves her back. Akari's obstacle wasn't a lack of reciprocity, it was other people objecting to the romance. That's an entirely different kettle of fish than unrequited love, and the two shouldn't be equated like what you're doing here.

Really? because for a while I wasn't sure if he truly committed to her. My impression that he was simply lonely and wanted something to fill that void. The feelings weren't equal.
Things seem better now, but I think it's clearly because of the sacrifice Akari was willing to pay.

I think that's a perfectly reasonable and viable interpretation of this work thus far.

We'll see.

[kido22]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

In the first place, I think it's pretty clear in the context of the series that we're not supposed to take Chisaki's feelings for Hikari as just some schoolgirl crush. She's known him all her life - she knows pretty much everything about him, and she loves him. It's not convenient, but it's a fact.

Again, I'm mystified by the notion that we can simply stop loving someone because it's inconvenient. And it seems paired with what I see as an equally strange idea, that we have to stop loving one person before we can start loving someone else. I do think it's possible to come to love someone despite having lingering love for someone else - the point isn't to toss aside that love like a used tissue, but to understand it and to accept that it's not going to lead to a relationship.

That said, it's equally unrealistic to think that Chisaki should now fall in love with Tsumugu because that is convenient. It seems to me that after living with him for five years - five hormonally-charged and emotionally fragile years - if that was going to happen it would have happened already. But if there is any chance of it, it wouldn't be until after Chisaki comes to terms with (not tosses aside) her feelings for Hikari.

Lastly, I also find some of this criticism of Chisaki for clinging to the past kind of silly. It's not as if she's an old maid, some spinster living in a tiny apartment with newspapers stacked to the ceiling and 25 cats. She's still a teenager - she has plenty of time to fall in love again. It was impossible for her to move on with Hikari missing, condition unknown - now that he's back, she's slowly and painfully coming to terms with the sad reality of their situation. What in the world is wrong with that?

but what do you see?
between tsugumu Chisaki and nothing happened because Chisaki was locked in his past of his friends.
Chisaki not in love with hikari but is convinced of it.
explain the fact of the elbow?
the fact of the boat?
the fact of the school uniform?
they seem to husband and wife.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Key Board

Likewise, there are also people who never gave up, and had their love returned in the end.

That's besides the point because Chisaki knows she has no chance. In her case it's not about giving up, because she already lost. It's about moving on, or rather, about being unable to do so, and the consequences of it.

There are only two paths for Chisaki. She moves on and gives herself the chance to be happy (doesn't have to be with Tsumugu, or even in the present), or she doesn't and remains stuck and pathetic, Zessica style. Okada has done both types of characters, so we just have to wait see which shoe will fit Chisaki.

[Key Board]

True, Hikari will not sway from Manaka and Chisaki knows it.

I don't think she'll try to seduce Hikari, but she's not going to force herself to forget him either.
As GE so eloquently put it, feelings are not like an on/off switch.

I'd say there's a 75% Chisaki ends up staying single, though.

The wild card in this equation is probably Kaname. He has a... dark side to him, and I feel he might react the wrong way to things.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Chisaki's Zessica 2.0. Mark my words. She's going to end up a pathetic mess.

We'll see. I'm optimistic most characters in NagiAsu are going to get happy endings. Chisaki has been set up with Tsumugu rather early, there's no way this won't go anywhere. I doubt she will be able to move on all by herself though, she will need a push from other characters. If she's left alone, she will remain stuck in place. Chisaki is the kind of person who needs to rely on others.