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kresslia · 2014-03-20, 11:19

Man it was hard watching Chisaki this episode, she's fooling herself. She seriously needs to snap out of it, she's a complete mess. She was HARSH to Tsumugu, my god. I felt so bad for him, wtf. And she's moving out now? Girl, what are you doing? Kaname is a good guy, trying to set her straight. Nice that Kaname probably isn't looking at too bad of an ending now, maybe we could have a Kaname/Sayu (timeskip?) ending. I thought at most we'd have a Kaname/Sayu implied "maybe-in-the-future" type ending. Poor guy felt so left out.

fractal4 · 2014-03-20, 11:19

I feel ep. 24 has blown to bits my theory regarding Tsumugu, but it was fun while it lasted

Way to go Kaname! Meanwhile Chisaki is really troubling me, she leaves me wondering just what was going on with her from childhood. Even during the 1st cour episodes she was always putting others ahead of her and denying her feelings. At this point she seems unable to face her feelings honestly, it's become too much a part of who she is. Poor Chisaki.

Excorsism · 2014-03-20, 11:20

Nice to see them actually address how much of an outsider Kaname was. Hit me hard when he said he was really lonely. I felt it all the way since his return.

You go Sayu!

bakaouji · 2014-03-20, 11:20

Awesome episode. Everything fell into place perfectly. The payoff was delivered in spades.

It stands to reason that Chisaki's happiness was tainted with unremitting guilt these past five years. She's always had feelings for Tsumugu but she never allowed herself to love him or believe that she loved him because she thought she would betray Hikari and by extension the rest of her friends and her family who were under the spell of deep slumber. Wracked with guilt she suppressed her feelings trying her best to not let on that she loved Tsumugu. Survivor's guilt is very real and very painful and when she realized that she could no longer keep her feelings for Tsumugu in check when he confessed to her, she went as far to suggest that she ought to serve as the sacrifice.

As for Kaname, he was beset with utter loneliness when he returned to the surface. But he was lonely even before that as he said that he always felt that he was the odd one out in the group. It was pretty moving to finally see him drop that cool facade and shed tears when Sayu professed her love to him. Good for both of them.

Tsumugu seemed unfazed when Chisaki pushed him away but I bet he's really feeling it and I'm sure he knows why she's acting that way. Of course, that didn't stop him from coming up with a plan to restore balance and return Manaka's feelings at the same time.

Manaka seemed to be feeling love but she doesn't have the sense to process what she's feeling. Its like when you don't find the right words to articulate what you've experienced. That's why she was crying even though she didn't understand why. Deep down she knows she's missing a vital piece that makes her whole.

I doubt the Ofunehiki will go off without a hitch, but they gotta do it if they wanna make a dent in the situation. I'm pretty sure we're gonna get a happy ending and I'm also sure at this point that no one's gonna end up alone. The next two episodes ought to be a doozy.

anonfr · 2014-03-20, 11:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by kresslia

Man it was hard watching Chisaki this episode, she's fooling herself. She seriously needs to snap out of it, she's a complete mess. She was HARSH to Tsumugu, my god. I felt so bad for him, wtf. And she's moving out now? Girl, what are you doing? Kaname is a good guy, trying to set her straight. Nice that Kaname probably isn't looking at too bad of an ending now, maybe we could have a Kaname/Sayu (timeskip?) ending. I thought at most we'd have a Kaname/Sayu implied "maybe-in-the-future" type ending. Poor guy felt so left out.

You know even if it didn't work out for him, Tsugumu was still smooth as fuck.

Kaname reacted to sayu a lot better than I anticipated. I'm happy about that.

kresslia · 2014-03-20, 11:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by anonfr

You know even if it didn't work out for him, Tsugumu was still smooth as fuck.

Kaname reacted to sayu a lot better than I anticipated. I'm happy about that.

As expected. Best character. Tsumugu always handles things so well. I was impressed that even he picked up on her feelings for him, though I guess I shouldn't be surprised considering how perceptive he is.

And lol @ Chisaki actually using the "BUT MANAKA HAS FEELINGS FOR TSUMUGU!!!" excuse.

deadite · 2014-03-20, 11:29

Seeing Egawa and the other girls again made me smile.

Kanon · 2014-03-20, 11:45

I found it hilarious that they included Akira into this whole mess. Even little kids can't escape the Okada suffering.

I thought they handled Kaname very nicely in this episode. They actually addressed his status as a third wheel/outsider/odd man out which had been evident since the beginning of the series. He suffered from loneliness as a result, and was naturally happy to find out that somebody -Sayu- was always thinking of him. It's not like he suddenly fell in love with her after she confessed, he just decided to stop being completely focused on Chisaki, a girl who never gave a damn about him, and to look at Sayu.

Tsumugu had a pretty clever idea with pendant, but I don't think that's going to work. Would be way too easy. It would only postpone the apocalypse anyway, not prevent it. Not an optimal solution.

I don't even feel like commenting on Chisaki. She's pathetic. I don't even care about her anymore.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sikvod00

Congratulations, Kaname! Your consolation prize is... Sayu.

I guess that's better than being forever alone, right? I'm glad he is not an appealing character to me, otherwise I would really feel bad for him (hint: I don't care about Sayu) I would definitely move out of that house now. But in the end, Chisaki will definitely tag along with Tsumugu and it won't even matter. Dammit Tsumugu, must you be so perceptive and have an answer for everything?

I'm glad there's only two episodes left to wrap this shit up, because 2-cours of melodrama like this starts to wear on a person.

I'm happy for him. Sayu is a hundred times better than Chisaki. She knows what she wants and she isn't afraid to get it.

tezu · 2014-03-20, 11:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by kresslia

And lol @ Chisaki actually using the "BUT MANAKA HAS FEELINGS FOR TSUMUGU!!!" excuse.

Actually, after this episode, I think Manaka isn't just an excuse. Especially when she snapped back at Kaname and said that Manaka does have something to do with it. It reminded me of the very first episode when Kaname commented on how convenient it'd be for Chisaki if Manaka was out of the picture. Sure, Chisaki wants to run away and get rid of her guilt, but Manaka is a part of the reason why she feels guilty. It's bugging her so much she wants to step in as the new Ojoshi-sama so that Manaka will regain her ability to love.
But man, I agree with the people above me. Chisaki was my favorite character in the first cour, but now she's dropped to the bottom. Sayu's definitely the best girl in this series or at least the girl with the healthiest approach to romance. What also bothers me a lot is how Tsumugu has to "babysit" Chisaki all the time. I guess I'm only noticing it now because he knows exactly what she is thinking and she always has those foolish ideas that he has to get out of her head. I'm sure Chisaki supports Tsumugu in a way, too, but so far it's always been about her issues (which is partially because Tsumugu's issues are never dwelled on).

deadite · 2014-03-20, 11:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanon

I found it hilarious that they included Akira into this whole mess. Even little kids can't escape the Okada suffering.

Of course you think we aren't getting an epilogue timeskip with 14 year old Akira?

Moeterum · 2014-03-20, 11:54

Poor Kanama he's so good looking and yet no one loves, or at least that what he thought. Great to finally see him breaks out and cry for a change.

Meltyred · 2014-03-20, 12:21

Wow wut even the kid that can barely walk is in this mess now...
Well whatever, anyway detective Tsumugu doing work again, plot finally moves towards the end.
Also congrats Kaname, you finally can stop looking at Chisaki who treats you pretty much like air or counselor at her convenience.
Honestly I started laughing when Chisaki started her rant.

Thess · 2014-03-20, 12:42

I love this episode. It was brilliant. I will going to address Chisaki first.

Just like most of us guessed, Chisaki's been in love with Tsumugu these past five years, but she tried to convince herself she still loved Hikari when she doesn't at all so she would be 'unchanged' which is just a fantasy. Now we found out why she fears she has changed, she has a survivor's guilt complex, specially regarding Manaka who she believes loves Tsumugu. She feels guilty she's got happy memories with the man she loves while Manaka doesn't. She's scared of being happy. She doesn't need 'five years' to get over this, that's the opposite of healthy. That's encouraging her self destructive behavior where she's punished herself for something outside her control. Good thing Tsumugu firmly scolds her when she appears self destructive, that is exactly what she needs right now. She needs to get grounded and fixed as soon as possible. Her issue has nothing to do with her love for Tsumugu, but her guilt caused by the incident 5 years ago. Kaname knew Chisaki was going to still end up with Tsumugu in his what if scenarios, he admitted it. Hurtful as was to watch so much raw displays of feelings...this episode is a huge step forward because she's admitted now she loves Tsumugu, Kaname knows too, she admits she's been deceiving herself all this time. She needs to exorcise her feelings of guilt and that's where the ofunehiki comes to play.

Tsumugu came up with a solution for everything. For Manaka's problems, for the world's problems but also Chisaki's. Regardless of what happens, giving Chisaki the repeat to try to help her friend is providing her (and everyone) closure. I'm sure there'll be bumps in the road (because for drama sake the ritual can't be smooth sailing completely), but he's right on target and we'll get a good resolution this time. If you judge Uroko's dismissal to Hikari's proposal in the first half, he's completely accepting Tsumugu's this time. His attitude changed from apathetic and warning to supportive and encouraging. Tsumugu acquired ena, observed the sea, used his knowledge of oceanography and came up with an idea to not involve people in the ritual. Uroko looked very impressed. And people called him passive, he already had all the people gathered, didn't stay still to brood about his 'rejection' (because he probably knew Chisaki's reasons) and stayed around to feel the sea 'feelings'. He wasted no time in drama.

Kaname also took a step forward. He was finally honest with his feelings, I was proud of the boy and it gave me joy he would give a chance to Sayu (who is my favorite female character of the show so I was so happy she has a shot

). He was sincere he felt the odd one out and it certainly feels like that. Poor guy. Good thing he finally stopped pretending he's mature and allows himself to be a kid.

Manaka also took a step forward, she's aware she's missing something, love precisely and that makes her upset. It was painful to watch her cry and tormented by the waves of the sea.

It's building up in a cohesive direction so far and maybe grandpa isn't going to die after all! I am happy for that. I would hate if he did.

deadite · 2014-03-20, 12:45

You know deep down, Isamu wants great grand kids soon. Also I really smell the 14 year old Akira epilogue. I predicted there would be a second Ofunehiki.

tezu · 2014-03-20, 13:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thess

Just like most of us guessed, Chisaki's been in love with Tsumugu these past five years, but she tried to convince herself she still loved Hikari when she doesn't at all so she would be 'unchanged' which is just a fantasy. Now we found out why she fears she has changed, she has a survivor's guilt complex, specially regarding Manaka who she believes loves Tsumugu. She feels guilty she's got happy memories with the man she loves while Manaka doesn't.

Thinking back now, Chisaki always seemed to have some sort of a "Manaka-complex"

In the first cour, she said she wanted to be more honest like Manaka and always commented on what a good girl Manaka was and how she can't compare to her. Chisaki loves Manaka very dearly but sometimes it seems like she has an inferiority complex. Maybe her low self-esteem made her think that someone like her doesn't deserve being in love when Manaka's in such a bad situation, I don't know.

Thess · 2014-03-20, 13:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by tezu

Thinking back now, Chisaki always seemed to have some sort of a "Manaka-complex"

In the first cour, she said she wanted to be more honest like Manaka and always commented on what a good girl Manaka was and how she can't compare to her. Chisaki loves Manaka very dearly but sometimes it seems like she has an inferiority complex. Maybe her low self-esteem made her think that someone like her doesn't deserve being in love when Manaka's in such a bad situation, I don't know.

And I can understand her as someone who values friendship. Manaka did the same as Chisaki: she pushed Hikari away when he hugged her and then ran away from him when he confessed.

Admitting the reason of why she's clinging of to her past, admitting Tsumugu is the one she loves and the reason why she can't have a relationship with him is the first step to move on from that guilt that is making her suffer.

Key Board · 2014-03-20, 13:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thess

Kaname also took a step forward. He was finally honest with his feelings, I was proud of the boy and it gave me joy he would give a chance to Sayu (who is my favorite female character of the show so I was so happy she has a shot

). He was sincere he felt the odd one out and it certainly feels like that. Poor guy. Good thing he finally stopped pretending he's mature and allows himself to be a kid.

I didn't like how the scene seemed forced to be dramatic and theatrical.
Yes, he was always lonely. Yes, he needed to let that out.
But the way it was handled seemed artificial to me.
I guess, I'll just blame him having a moment of weakness and swept by the atmosphere.

Kazu-kun · 2014-03-20, 13:43

So, it was almost exactly as we predicted. Chisaki really was in love Tsumugu, and since before the time skip to boot. We knew already, but it's nice to finally get a confirmation.

And she doesn't really love Hikari anymore; she was just forcing herself to keep her childhood feelings intact for the sake of her denial. It's also nice to get a confirmation on that as well.

The last hurdle for Chisaki is to get over her real issues: her survivor's guilt and her inferiority complex regarding Manaka. If she manages to do just that, she'll get her happy ending. If she doesn't, then only tragedy awaits her. It's all up to her now.

On another note, I'm happy for Sayu and Kaname. I hope Kaname realizes how lucky he is. Sayu's the best girl of this bunch by far. Certainly she's far ahead of Chisaki.

I also like the little bit of progression for Manaka, Miuna and Hikari. This episode was good in that it gave attention to pretty much all the main characters, not just one or two of them. This is how the series should have been since the very beginning. It would have been a better show by far that way.

But yeah, I think there's a good chance for a happy ending for everyone. I hope so at least.

Kakurin · 2014-03-20, 13:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by tezu

Chisaki was my favorite character in the first cour, but now she's dropped to the bottom.

Right with you here. Liked her best in the first part, thought she was quite an interesting character. Since the timeskip she has been slowly but surely dropping. Not only has she not really developed, but arguably she has gone to the worse. First problem I had was that she seemed to have lost a certain degree of love of life. She was and is just vegetating every day, doing the boring old housewife routine. Looking back from what's told in this episode I think that this development was kind of on purpose. Like with her love life she probably had no intentions of really enjoying her life with her childhood friends sleeping out there (and living with Tsumugu sure doesn't help in this regard). This links to the second problem, that she just seems out of touch with the dynamics around her. So well, this has sealed it, for the second part my vote goes to Miuna (with Sayu behind her).

As for the episode, kind of funny how quickly the entire Ofunehiki preparation went by. The first cour it was a multi-episode spanning struggle. Now it is done in the blink of an eye. Tsumugu's plan does look sound, but I would be very surprised if this really just goes down like that. Would be way too convenient. And Kaname, well, we weren't the only ones who thought that he was the lonely fourth wheel of the Shishio group. About time that he tries to move forward instead of clinging to a past that was lost even back then. Happy for Sayu that she now gets a chance, unlike Miuna...

Kazu-kun · 2014-03-20, 13:56

Chisaki may look pathetic right now, but she has a chance to revert it all in one swipe, to grow up and get her happy ending. The buildup is done. The last step is up to her (and Okada).

2014-03-20, 11:19	Link #3202
fractal4 Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2014	I feel ep. 24 has blown to bits my theory regarding Tsumugu, but it was fun while it lasted Way to go Kaname! Meanwhile Chisaki is really troubling me, she leaves me wondering just what was going on with her from childhood. Even during the 1st cour episodes she was always putting others ahead of her and denying her feelings. At this point she seems unable to face her feelings honestly, it's become too much a part of who she is. Poor Chisaki.
$fractal4 is offline$

2014-03-20, 11:20	Link #3203
Excorsism Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005	Nice to see them actually address how much of an outsider Kaname was. Hit me hard when he said he was really lonely. I felt it all the way since his return. You go Sayu! __________________

2014-03-20, 12:42	Link #3213
Thess Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010	I love this episode. It was brilliant. I will going to address Chisaki first. Just like most of us guessed, Chisaki's been in love with Tsumugu these past five years, but she tried to convince herself she still loved Hikari when she doesn't at all so she would be 'unchanged' which is just a fantasy. Now we found out why she fears she has changed, she has a survivor's guilt complex, specially regarding Manaka who she believes loves Tsumugu. She feels guilty she's got happy memories with the man she loves while Manaka doesn't. She's scared of being happy. She doesn't need 'five years' to get over this, that's the opposite of healthy. That's encouraging her self destructive behavior where she's punished herself for something outside her control. Good thing Tsumugu firmly scolds her when she appears self destructive, that is exactly what she needs right now. She needs to get grounded and fixed as soon as possible. Her issue has nothing to do with her love for Tsumugu, but her guilt caused by the incident 5 years ago. Kaname knew Chisaki was going to still end up with Tsumugu in his what if scenarios, he admitted it. Hurtful as was to watch so much raw displays of feelings...this episode is a huge step forward because she's admitted now she loves Tsumugu, Kaname knows too, she admits she's been deceiving herself all this time. She needs to exorcise her feelings of guilt and that's where the ofunehiki comes to play. Tsumugu came up with a solution for everything. For Manaka's problems, for the world's problems but also Chisaki's. Regardless of what happens, giving Chisaki the repeat to try to help her friend is providing her (and everyone) closure. I'm sure there'll be bumps in the road (because for drama sake the ritual can't be smooth sailing completely), but he's right on target and we'll get a good resolution this time. If you judge Uroko's dismissal to Hikari's proposal in the first half, he's completely accepting Tsumugu's this time. His attitude changed from apathetic and warning to supportive and encouraging. Tsumugu acquired ena, observed the sea, used his knowledge of oceanography and came up with an idea to not involve people in the ritual. Uroko looked very impressed. And people called him passive, he already had all the people gathered, didn't stay still to brood about his 'rejection' (because he probably knew Chisaki's reasons) and stayed around to feel the sea 'feelings'. He wasted no time in drama. Kaname also took a step forward. He was finally honest with his feelings, I was proud of the boy and it gave me joy he would give a chance to Sayu (who is my favorite female character of the show so I was so happy she has a shot ). He was sincere he felt the odd one out and it certainly feels like that. Poor guy. Good thing he finally stopped pretending he's mature and allows himself to be a kid. Manaka also took a step forward, she's aware she's missing something, love precisely and that makes her upset. It was painful to watch her cry and tormented by the waves of the sea. It's building up in a cohesive direction so far and maybe grandpa isn't going to die after all! I am happy for that. I would hate if he did. __________________ *"Who* would understand you after I die? Who else would march forward by your side?"**

2014-03-20, 13:43	Link #3218
Kazu-kun Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006	So, it was almost exactly as we predicted. Chisaki really was in love Tsumugu, and since before the time skip to boot. We knew already, but it's nice to finally get a confirmation. And she doesn't really love Hikari anymore; she was just forcing herself to keep her childhood feelings intact for the sake of her denial. It's also nice to get a confirmation on that as well. The last hurdle for Chisaki is to get over her real issues: her survivor's guilt and her inferiority complex regarding Manaka. If she manages to do just that, she'll get her happy ending. If she doesn't, then only tragedy awaits her. It's all up to her now. On another note, I'm happy for Sayu and Kaname. I hope Kaname realizes how lucky he is. Sayu's the best girl of this bunch by far. Certainly she's far ahead of Chisaki. I also like the little bit of progression for Manaka, Miuna and Hikari. This episode was good in that it gave attention to pretty much all the main characters, not just one or two of them. This is how the series should have been since the very beginning. It would have been a better show by far that way. But yeah, I think there's a good chance for a happy ending for everyone. I hope so at least. __________________

2014-03-20, 13:56	Link #3220
Kazu-kun Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006	Chisaki may look pathetic right now, but she has a chance to revert it all in one swipe, to grow up and get her happy ending. The buildup is done. The last step is up to her (and Okada). __________________

2014-03-20, 11:19	Link #3201
kresslia I dunno what to write. Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Canada	Man it was hard watching Chisaki this episode, she's fooling herself. She seriously needs to snap out of it, she's a complete mess. She was HARSH to Tsumugu, my god. I felt so bad for him, wtf. And she's moving out now? Girl, what are you doing? Kaname is a good guy, trying to set her straight. Nice that Kaname probably isn't looking at too bad of an ending now, maybe we could have a Kaname/Sayu (timeskip?) ending. I thought at most we'd have a Kaname/Sayu implied "maybe-in-the-future" type ending. Poor guy felt so left out.

2014-03-20, 11:20	Link #3204
bakaouji Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013	Awesome episode. Everything fell into place perfectly. The payoff was delivered in spades. It stands to reason that Chisaki's happiness was tainted with unremitting guilt these past five years. She's always had feelings for Tsumugu but she never allowed herself to love him or believe that she loved him because she thought she would betray Hikari and by extension the rest of her friends and her family who were under the spell of deep slumber. Wracked with guilt she suppressed her feelings trying her best to not let on that she loved Tsumugu. Survivor's guilt is very real and very painful and when she realized that she could no longer keep her feelings for Tsumugu in check when he confessed to her, she went as far to suggest that she ought to serve as the sacrifice. As for Kaname, he was beset with utter loneliness when he returned to the surface. But he was lonely even before that as he said that he always felt that he was the odd one out in the group. It was pretty moving to finally see him drop that cool facade and shed tears when Sayu professed her love to him. Good for both of them. Tsumugu seemed unfazed when Chisaki pushed him away but I bet he's really feeling it and I'm sure he knows why she's acting that way. Of course, that didn't stop him from coming up with a plan to restore balance and return Manaka's feelings at the same time. Manaka seemed to be feeling love but she doesn't have the sense to process what she's feeling. Its like when you don't find the right words to articulate what you've experienced. That's why she was crying even though she didn't understand why. Deep down she knows she's missing a vital piece that makes her whole. I doubt the Ofunehiki will go off without a hitch, but they gotta do it if they wanna make a dent in the situation. I'm pretty sure we're gonna get a happy ending and I'm also sure at this point that no one's gonna end up alone. The next two episodes ought to be a doozy.

2014-03-20, 11:29	Link #3207
deadite Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2010	Seeing Egawa and the other girls again made me smile.

2014-03-20, 11:54	Link #3211
Moeterum Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2013	Poor Kanama he's so good looking and yet no one loves, or at least that what he thought. Great to finally see him breaks out and cry for a change.

2014-03-20, 12:21	Link #3212
Meltyred Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011	Wow wut even the kid that can barely walk is in this mess now... Well whatever, anyway detective Tsumugu doing work again, plot finally moves towards the end. Also congrats Kaname, you finally can stop looking at Chisaki who treats you pretty much like air or counselor at her convenience. Honestly I started laughing when Chisaki started her rant.

2014-03-20, 12:45	Link #3214
deadite Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2010	You know deep down, Isamu wants great grand kids soon. Also I really smell the 14 year old Akira epilogue. I predicted there would be a second Ofunehiki.