AnimeSuki Forums

tugatosmk · 2016-12-11, 07:34

I've been excited ever since HEVC was released and after the reviews stating that it could compress almost as half as x264 for the same quality.

I thought that now we could finally have some 720p 22min eps fansubs with at most 230MB files (reminding me of the good old days of XVID 174MB and 230MB!...) instead of the now "bloated" 400MB~600MB, not to mention the humongous over 1GB files per video... As as anime collector, HEVC could benefit my HDDs economy, meaning I wouldn't have to buy more.

But sadly what I'm seeing is either (the very few) fansubs releasing HEVC videos with almost the same size of their over 500MB x264 version videos (for 720p) or, as I saw the other day, a fansub that released a 720p 22min video in x264 with 1GB and the HEVC with 500 MB...

Is HEVC not all that's cracked up to be or is it just the case of it still being in its infancy and there's far more development to be made?

Not to mention that I myself made some tests of my wn a few months ago using IFME with a DVD MPEG2 recorded from TV with my standalone DVD recorder (with some grain and temporal smoother applied by me). The results were disappointing, it did not keep the same quality with half the size, it was VERY "blocky". At least with MEGUI and x264 I had full freedom to encode any way I wanted.
I have a ton of home-made family videos in interlaced 50fps MPEG2 (5000~11000 kbps bitrate) that I'd love to reencode with HEVC to a bitrate of 1000~1500kbps at "bob-ed "50fps (or interlaced 50fps) saving LOTS of space, but only if I were to lose a minimum amount of quality, unlike the tests I've made.

Are there any HEVC settings or programs that I'm not aware of? Are there any plans for MEGUI to support HEVC and give me the same freedom on encoding controls as x264? (so far I could get MEGUI to use HEVC...)

EDIT: I just found out "x265GUI" and "Hybrid". I haven't made tests with them but x265GUI just won't let me close the program, giving the error "unable to write c:\xx\xx\settings.ini".

In the past I had tried Handbrake with HEVC, but the results seemed random and not very good to me, not to mention Handbrake has a lot less options that MEGUI.

What do you think of these alternatives?

Kinematics · 2016-12-16, 10:34

HEVC has not picked up the momentum it needs to be a useful alternative to h.264. I expect the real next alternative is going to be AV1 (merging the efforts of VP10 from Google, Daala from Mozilla, and Thor from Cisco). The bitstream is expected to be frozen by March 2017, with YouTube pushing to use it for their HD stuff within 6 months of that.

Given how close it is to being released, I see no reason to go for HEVC now; it seems like a dead end to me. AV1 won't have the patent or license issues of HEVC, and you can probably expect the tooling to ramp up for it pretty quick, with Google having strong motivation to make it good for YouTube, and NetFlix having similar motivations. If we don't have the equivalent of an x264 project generating impressive results by next summer, I'll be very surprised.

So, no advice on settings to use, sorry. Would just suggest waiting a few more months instead.

larethian · 2016-12-16, 11:27

I don't really track software decoder development and adoption trends. But I attend broadcast conventions and actually have somewhat indirect business relations in this arena, and with respect to hardware decoders, HEVC push by chipmakers to broadcast/content operators (which means they need to overhaul their encoding equipment or at least some of them thus = cost!!) may depend on 4k penetration to consumer base. Because more 4k TVs in homes would justify more 4k source content production for broadcast. Switching to encode in HEVC would then make sense to the operators to broadcast/stream 4k content with less bandwidth. It may not be relevant to OP's question on fansub group adoption, but just saying.

SeijiSensei · 2016-12-16, 13:23

Given that you always have to take sales projections with a large shakerful of salt, many sites claim that 4K sales will accelerate in 2017 as prices fall. See, for instance, http://fortune.com/2016/06/02/your-n...ly-be-a-4k-tv/.

I bought a 55" LG a couple years back for about the same money as this newer 4K model. To me, though, the next step forward is OLED displays, which are still quite pricey but beautiful to behold. When those TVs fall to under $1,000 I might be ready for a new model.

tugatosmk · 2016-12-17, 11:53

What a letdown... Is AV1 still in the development stage or is there an encoder available?

Kinematics · 2016-12-18, 23:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by tugatosmk

What a letdown... Is AV1 still in the development stage or is there an encoder available?

Still in development, but the deadline for the bitstream to be finalized (meaning that encoders can be written that you can be sure won't break from further development) is March.

Kinematics · 2017-02-05, 02:06

Update: Frozen bitstream schedule has slipped to October 2017. As such, do not use its impending release as a reason to hold off switching to other formats in the meantime.

I'm rather disappointed, but I can see that they're working on a number of experiments which haven't been fully evaluated yet, so the March deadline was apparently far too optimistic.

tugatosmk · 2017-02-05, 12:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kinematics

Update: Frozen bitstream schedule has slipped to October 2017. As such, do not use its impending release as a reason to hold off switching to other formats in the meantime.

I'm rather disappointed, but I can see that they're working on a number of experiments which haven't been fully evaluated yet, so the March deadline was apparently far too optimistic.

Oh, man...

2016-12-11, 07:34	Link #1
tugatosmk 1982 tuga Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Portugal	HEVC vs x264 compressilibity I've been excited ever since HEVC was released and after the reviews stating that it could compress almost as half as x264 for the same quality. I thought that now we could finally have some 720p 22min eps fansubs with at most 230MB files (reminding me of the good old days of XVID 174MB and 230MB!...) instead of the now "bloated" 400MB~600MB, not to mention the humongous over 1GB files per video... As as anime collector, HEVC could benefit my HDDs economy, meaning I wouldn't have to buy more. But sadly what I'm seeing is either (the very few) fansubs releasing HEVC videos with almost the same size of their over 500MB x264 version videos (for 720p) or, as I saw the other day, a fansub that released a 720p 22min video in x264 with 1GB and the HEVC with 500 MB... Is HEVC not all that's cracked up to be or is it just the case of it still being in its infancy and there's far more development to be made? Not to mention that I myself made some tests of my wn a few months ago using IFME with a DVD MPEG2 recorded from TV with my standalone DVD recorder (with some grain and temporal smoother applied by me). The results were disappointing, it did not keep the same quality with half the size, it was VERY "blocky". At least with MEGUI and x264 I had full freedom to encode any way I wanted. I have a ton of home-made family videos in interlaced 50fps MPEG2 (5000~11000 kbps bitrate) that I'd love to reencode with HEVC to a bitrate of 1000~1500kbps at "bob-ed "50fps (or interlaced 50fps) saving LOTS of space, but only if I were to lose a minimum amount of quality, unlike the tests I've made. Are there any HEVC settings or programs that I'm not aware of? Are there any plans for MEGUI to support HEVC and give me the same freedom on encoding controls as x264? (so far I could get MEGUI to use HEVC...) EDIT: I just found out "x265GUI" and "Hybrid". I haven't made tests with them but x265GUI just won't let me close the program, giving the error "unable to write c:\xx\xx\settings.ini". In the past I had tried Handbrake with HEVC, but the results seemed random and not very good to me, not to mention Handbrake has a lot less options that MEGUI. What do you think of these alternatives? __________________ "Nous dirigeons vers un système planétaire inconnu..." Last edited by tugatosmk; 2016-12-11 at 08:35.

2016-12-16, 13:23	Link #4
SeijiSensei AS Oji-kun Join Date: Nov 2006 Age: 74	Given that you always have to take sales projections with a large shakerful of salt, many sites claim that 4K sales will accelerate in 2017 as prices fall. See, for instance, http://fortune.com/2016/06/02/your-n...ly-be-a-4k-tv/. I bought a 55" LG a couple years back for about the same money as this newer 4K model. To me, though, the next step forward is OLED displays, which are still quite pricey but beautiful to behold. When those TVs fall to under $1,000 I might be ready for a new model. __________________ Taking Anime Seriously - Politics by the Numbers - Sports by the Numbers - MAL List - Avatars - Images

2016-12-17, 11:53	Link #5
tugatosmk 1982 tuga Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Portugal	What a letdown... Is AV1 still in the development stage or is there an encoder available? __________________ "Nous dirigeons vers un système planétaire inconnu..."

2016-12-16, 10:34	Link #2
Kinematics Let's play a game! Join Date: Sep 2006	HEVC has not picked up the momentum it needs to be a useful alternative to h.264. I expect the real next alternative is going to be AV1 (merging the efforts of VP10 from Google, Daala from Mozilla, and Thor from Cisco). The bitstream is expected to be frozen by March 2017, with YouTube pushing to use it for their HD stuff within 6 months of that. Given how close it is to being released, I see no reason to go for HEVC now; it seems like a dead end to me. AV1 won't have the patent or license issues of HEVC, and you can probably expect the tooling to ramp up for it pretty quick, with Google having strong motivation to make it good for YouTube, and NetFlix having similar motivations. If we don't have the equivalent of an x264 project generating impressive results by next summer, I'll be very surprised. So, no advice on settings to use, sorry. Would just suggest waiting a few more months instead.

2016-12-16, 11:27	Link #3
larethian Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010	I don't really track software decoder development and adoption trends. But I attend broadcast conventions and actually have somewhat indirect business relations in this arena, and with respect to hardware decoders, HEVC push by chipmakers to broadcast/content operators (which means they need to overhaul their encoding equipment or at least some of them thus = cost!!) may depend on 4k penetration to consumer base. Because more 4k TVs in homes would justify more 4k source content production for broadcast. Switching to encode in HEVC would then make sense to the operators to broadcast/stream 4k content with less bandwidth. It may not be relevant to OP's question on fansub group adoption, but just saying.

2017-02-05, 02:06	Link #7
Kinematics Let's play a game! Join Date: Sep 2006	Update: Frozen bitstream schedule has slipped to October 2017. As such, do not use its impending release as a reason to hold off switching to other formats in the meantime. I'm rather disappointed, but I can see that they're working on a number of experiments which haven't been fully evaluated yet, so the March deadline was apparently far too optimistic.