AnimeSuki Forums

jerkette · 2011-02-17, 10:26

Go, SHIROTH! just saying.

I still don't get others who forget Sawako's past (you know, way before S1), thus, misunderstanding her actions now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

In her defense, the three idiots didn't get it either. (The friggin' bastards. I'm not saying they should die in a fire, but still.)

Right now, I'm totally putting all the blame to those three idiots!

MeoTwister5 · 2011-02-17, 11:15

For some reason I couldn't let it go so I rewatched the episode and thought to myself that there seemed to be a part that I thought was left out. Went back to the source and true enough a small part of interior monologue of Sawako didn't make the cut, but then I realized this made the entire difference for me in the entire part of the arc, and why I felt really annoyed at this episode and not at the manga chapter.

Eh well whatever nothing to do about it now. In the end I can't blame Sawako too much for her actions and decisions because I lived an exact same phase and self-image system in my life in the past, and now in retrospect as Chizu says it puts into perspective how this sort of reality is a reflection of yourself, and that they happen because you believe them to happen.

In any case for those who thought of dropping this because of this episode, I too actually almost dropped the manga at this point and that's the truth (sorry Shiroth

). And then, one of my favorite scenes in the entire damn thing would pop up just a little time later. The best I can say is that, given the adaptation rate, I think that after 2-3 more episodes if it doesn't change your mind then nothing else the show can present will, and no one will blame you for dropping it.

Anh_Minh · 2011-02-17, 15:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanon

The three stooges weren't there when he used the word "Koi" , so they have an excuse. Furthermore, they don't know jack about Sawako and Kazehaya's relationship. As complete outsiders it's easy for them to misunderstand, although their logic ("it's impossible Kazehaya would fall for someone like her, lolilol") was quite douchey.

Yeah. And alas, Sawako pretty much had the same reasoning. And ignored any evidence to the contrary.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spectacular_Insanity

Dear God, I hate to make my recent posts so negative (I'm not trolling, trust me), but this makes me want to drop this series.

Sawako needs to just freaking say she loves him. TWO WORDS ("suki desu") would more-or-less fix everything,

Not really. Considering the mixed signals she's been sending, he could easily take it as a different kind of "like".

Quote:

but she just sits there and stays quiet. Kazehaya's much to blame too. He doesn't understand Sawako's tears, the bastard.

It makes me rage A LOT. Sawako and Kazehaya both throwing themselves separate pity-parties is just pathetic.

Kent > Kazehaya at this point for me, if only because he's not only a nice guy, but also seems to care for Sawako's feelings, to boot. On the surface, he's really laid back, but I get the impression he really does care. Kazehaya, on the other hand, is so preoccupied with himself currently that he's blind to what Sawako's feeling. Grrrrr. I can't believe Kazehaya actually thinks that Sawako would cry if she WASN'T in love with him. What a moron.

Wrong. They both care about Sawako's feelings, and they both misread her. Kent thought she was a lot more shallow than she was. He's a very shallow person himself, and thinks everyone's the same.

As for Kazehaya - the reason he's been so patient is precisely because he tried to be considerate of her feelings. He didn't want to push when she wasn't ready.

And to those who judge Kazehaya harshly for not understanding her - remember that while we've been privy to her conversations with her closest friends and some of her thoughts, he hasn't. They're really not that close, when it comes down to it.

Ahiru77 · 2011-02-17, 15:44

Not that close ??!!!!

Entire freakin season 1......Not THAT clo---....oh never mind. >_>

Anh_Minh · 2011-02-17, 15:54

Yes, they've had their moments. Which she's treated like a big deal, every time. Did they go home together regularly, or at all? How many get-togethers have there been, outside of school? Did they eat lunch together? Played games together?

grey_moon · 2011-02-17, 19:17

WTF...

Have we been watching the same anime????

Right lets start... First this episode takes away any doubt of why Sawako acts the way she does... It specifies and highlights why she acts the way she does. Through her constant "bullied" life style she acts in a self deprecating manner because that is the only way she knows how to act.

If Chi can understand that I hope that "we" with our extra dialogue can.

Shouta is not impatient, he is fricking bricking himself. He doesn't want to hear the bad news. He isn't walking away fast coz he doesn't have the time for her, he basically is in a situation that is new for him and one that is so important to him that he can't act the way he normally does. aka body running away!!!

As he keeps saying to Sawako he isn't what everyone thinks of him, he doesn't expect Sawako to be madly in love with him, he like her is expecting failure. From what I believe this is first love, something he doesn't really understand or can control.

Jeeeeezzz try to show a little empathy please!!!!!

demonkevy666 · 2011-02-17, 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Yeah. And alas, Sawako pretty much had the same reasoning. And ignored any evidence to the contrary.

Not really. Considering the mixed signals she's been sending, he could easily take it as a different kind of "like".

Wrong. They both care about Sawako's feelings, and they both misread her. Kent thought she was a lot more shallow than she was. He's a very shallow person himself, and thinks everyone's the same.

As for Kazehaya - the reason he's been so patient is precisely because he tried to be considerate of her feelings. He didn't want to push when she wasn't ready.

And to those who judge Kazehaya harshly for not understanding her - remember that while we've been privy to her conversations with her closest friends and some of her thoughts, he hasn't. They're really not that close, when it comes down to it.

Kent and kurmimi, shallow as puddles.....

MeoTwister5 · 2011-02-18, 05:01

It Should Have Been Obvious

Yano and Yoshida’s words ring in Sawako’s ear as she tries to finally get a grip on herself and her belief system. Yano and Yoshida said it best: years of social neglect has drilled the inferiority complex into Sawako’s mind, and now most of what we see is the direct result of Sawako projecting her own insecurities into reality. She cannot, to some extent, make the distinction between reality before her and the subjugating world in her mind. It is not a fantasy but her own experience, and by her own experience she projects what she experiences now as a mere extension of how her life used to be, despite that fact that her life has taken a 180 degree turn. For all intents and purposes she finds it difficult to process the real world in a different manner. Everything she sees is the world avoiding her or merely “putting up with her”, a belief system that would naturally piss off her two closest friends. They were then forced to spell it out for her: it’s all in her mind.

Such is the life of the socially outcast, and I can’t really blame her for it. Still, she should have started to break away at her previous beliefs, and it was really only now it seems that the wrong things about the way she looks at herself and the world has started to come to her attention.

Spectacular_Insanity · 2011-02-18, 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

It Should Have Been Obvious

Yano and Yoshida’s words ring in Sawako’s ear as she tries to finally get a grip on herself and her belief system. Yano and Yoshida said it best: years of social neglect has drilled the inferiority complex into Sawako’s mind, and now most of what we see is the direct result of Sawako projecting her own insecurities into reality. She cannot, to some extent, make the distinction between reality before her and the subjugating world in her mind. It is not a fantasy but her own experience, and by her own experience she projects what she experiences now as a mere extension of how her life used to be, despite that fact that her life has taken a 180 degree turn. For all intents and purposes she finds it difficult to process the real world in a different manner. Everything she sees is the world avoiding her or merely “putting up with her”, a belief system that would naturally piss off her two closest friends. They were then forced to spell it out for her: it’s all in her mind.

Such is the life of the socially outcast, and I can’t really blame her for it. Still, she should have started to break away at her previous beliefs, and it was really only now it seems that the wrong things about the way she looks at herself and the world has started to come to her attention.

Nice post. That blog post more or less outlined everything that happened perfectly.

Because I was interested, I went ahead and read the applicable manga chapters, something I hadn't been doing. I think the manga does a lot better job at revealing what's really going on in Sawako's head. It makes it all seem to actually make sense in context to Sawako's bizarre way of thinking, rather than a fall-back on the "it was all a big misunderstanding" melodrama.

grey_moon · 2011-02-19, 03:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spectacular_Insanity

Because I was interested, I went ahead and read the applicable manga chapters, something I hadn't been doing. I think the manga does a lot better job at revealing what's really going on in Sawako's head. It makes it all seem to actually make sense in context to Sawako's bizarre way of thinking, rather than a fall-back on the "it was all a big misunderstanding" melodrama.

Maybe it is personal interpretation, but I can't see where the anime is doing a it was all a big misunderstanding melodrama.

It is harder for an anime to do thought bubbles as internal dialogue gets in the way of external.

Yes there is misunderstanding involved, but personally I think that is from the point of some viewerw. If we try to look from the eyes of all them including Kento and Ume, it all makes sense.

We all should know why Sawako acts the way she does.

Shouta should be easy too, well unless you are a Kento, and no that isn't an insult as I bet a lot of people would wish they could chat up a bird as easily and carefree as he does it.

Kento being shocked by Sawako's reaction. He either didn't realise how much Sawako feels for Shouta or more likely hasn't really had to chance to experience it himself. Maybe for him a relationship is more like a game? Makes it easy to make the move with that stance....

The list goes on, but to say that the anime comes off as delivering this season or arc as a "it was all a big misunderstanding" melodrama is the misunderstanding imho

MeoTwister5 · 2011-02-19, 03:45

It's not a misunderstanding inasmuch as it is about two people who can't be forthright and honest with themselves and each other. This wouldn't happen if they were.

broken270 · 2011-02-19, 13:14

Spoiler:

So, here we have Shouta getting pissed off because he believes Kent did something to Sawako to make her cry. Although Sawako attempts to clear up this misunderstanding, that still does not mean that Shouta would be any less angry. Then, you have the three idiots coming out of nowhere and openly stating what their opinion is about the three of them. It was here that Shouta openly admits that he likes Sawako. Sawako most likely misunderstood that and still believes that Shouta is only being nice to her and she might be a bother to her due to his "love interest." Sawako snaps and starts to chase after him.

Tension is running high as both members are trying to figure out what the other is currently thinking about. Shouta makes the first move and confronts her. He explains to her his feelings for her and confessed to her once more. Sawako is still quiet about all of this and is trying to gather up everything that has happened in her head. Noticing this, Stouta tries once more to reason with her while putting her feelings in mind. This causes both members of the party to misinterpret what the other is thinking about. Both of them like each other, but are too cautious about the others feelings and attempts to use the correct words to fix it, but it fails even more. Both of them separate, thinking that they were rejected by the other.

Ayane and Chizuru are on the move to find Sawako. Ayane bumps into Kent and immediately asks him if he did something that may have ruined the relationship between Sawako and Kent. Had the conversation gone further, Ayane would have beaten him up. Kurumi caught word o the confession between Sawako and Shouta and asks Kent about what he just did. Meanwhile, Pit was the first person who attempted to cheer up Sawako, but Ayane and Chizuru stopped him just in time before this whole misunderstanding would be caught in a whole different ballgame. It looks like Chizuru was the one that finally made Sawako realize exactly what is going on, in which I thought Ayane would be the one to snap her out of in.

Who can blame Sawako for thinking this way? She has been a recluse for so long that she has been too used to some of the negative aspects in her body and personality. Failing to make friends, having people misinterpret her actions, they were all unintentional, yet Sawako more or less takes this unto herself and keeps her optimism up by trying again next time. Then, she experiences all the happy moments that she has never had or experienced before, thus having a positive effect in her body. The feeling of love comes in, and it fluctuates up and down for her. At this point, it can be seen that it just reached the lowest point of love: the feeling of rejection. Everything might have gone back to the way things here in the past had not Ayane and Chizuru made her realize that she needs to stop over-thinking things and trust the feelings inside her to move her. By the time the next episode comes, I am hoping that it will be Sawako's turn to express her feelings to Shouta.

grey_moon · 2011-02-20, 03:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

It's not a misunderstanding inasmuch as it is about two people who can't be forthright and honest with themselves and each other. This wouldn't happen if they were.

But honest from who's point of view? We as the viewer are privy to a lot more info then any of the characters.

More importantly lingo makes a huge difference, as broken270 pointed out, the 3 blind mice (+ Sawako's lack of self belief) changed the context of Shouta's confession.

Really the word love has so many meanings, maybe they should make it like the urban legend of Eskimo words for snow

Spectacular_Insanity · 2011-02-23, 02:02

Spoiler for Episode 7:

pagan poor · 2011-02-23, 02:07

Spoiler for Ep. 7:

Kismet-chan · 2011-02-23, 02:46

Spoiler for Episode 7:

puretsundere · 2011-02-23, 04:16

Spoiler for Episode 7:

Kanon · 2011-02-23, 05:39

Spoiler for episode 7:

Shiroth · 2011-02-23, 06:08

Poor Joe. It's a shame he doesn't know his character is only used to break up conversations.

Velsy · 2011-02-23, 06:27

Episode 6 (I notice I am late)

Animes very well done so far. Alot of thought put into the story and progress. Goes the show not everything turns out how everyone wants. Its a good direction.

I actually thought Sawako rejected Kazehaya, but then later on Sawako saids he rejected her O_o. Its something I plan to go back and look apon. I gave Kazehaya the two thumbs up when he told Sawako he liked her, I knew it would come eventually. <-- still confuzzled who rejected who if Sawako said it wasn't her O_O

I actually also thought it was all over for Sawako, it was a "not ment to be" moment, however its only 6 episodes in (still 6 or 7 left) and after Chizus truthful speech (I couldnt of said it better really O_O), I feel theres still a little hope for her ^_^

Ima still cheer her on, a round 2!

2011-02-17, 11:15	Link #302
MeoTwister5 Komrades of Kitamura Kou Join Date: Jul 2004 Age: 39	For some reason I couldn't let it go so I rewatched the episode and thought to myself that there seemed to be a part that I thought was left out. Went back to the source and true enough a small part of interior monologue of Sawako didn't make the cut, but then I realized this made the entire difference for me in the entire part of the arc, and why I felt really annoyed at this episode and not at the manga chapter. Eh well whatever nothing to do about it now. In the end I can't blame Sawako too much for her actions and decisions because I lived an exact same phase and self-image system in my life in the past, and now in retrospect as Chizu says it puts into perspective how this sort of reality is a reflection of yourself, and that they happen because you believe them to happen. In any case for those who thought of dropping this because of this episode, I too actually almost dropped the manga at this point and that's the truth (sorry Shiroth ). And then, one of my favorite scenes in the entire damn thing would pop up just a little time later. The best I can say is that, given the adaptation rate, I think that after 2-3 more episodes if it doesn't change your mind then nothing else the show can present will, and no one will blame you for dropping it. __________________ Medical Student vs. Anime Last Exile - Fam the Silver Wing - Last edited by MeoTwister5; 2011-02-17 at 12:03.

2011-02-17, 19:17	Link #306
grey_moon Yummy, sweet and unyuu!!! Join Date: Dec 2004	WTF... Have we been watching the same anime???? Right lets start... First this episode takes away any doubt of why Sawako acts the way she does... It specifies and highlights why she acts the way she does. Through her constant "bullied" life style she acts in a self deprecating manner because that is the only way she knows how to act. If Chi can understand that I hope that "we" with our extra dialogue can. Shouta is not impatient, he is fricking bricking himself. He doesn't want to hear the bad news. He isn't walking away fast coz he doesn't have the time for her, he basically is in a situation that is new for him and one that is so important to him that he can't act the way he normally does. aka body running away!!! As he keeps saying to Sawako he isn't what everyone thinks of him, he doesn't expect Sawako to be madly in love with him, he like her is expecting failure. From what I believe this is first love, something he doesn't really understand or can control. Jeeeeezzz try to show a little empathy please!!!!! __________________

2011-02-18, 05:01	Link #308
MeoTwister5 Komrades of Kitamura Kou Join Date: Jul 2004 Age: 39	It Should Have Been Obvious Yano and Yoshida’s words ring in Sawako’s ear as she tries to finally get a grip on herself and her belief system. Yano and Yoshida said it best: years of social neglect has drilled the inferiority complex into Sawako’s mind, and now most of what we see is the direct result of Sawako projecting her own insecurities into reality. She cannot, to some extent, make the distinction between reality before her and the subjugating world in her mind. It is not a fantasy but her own experience, and by her own experience she projects what she experiences now as a mere extension of how her life used to be, despite that fact that her life has taken a 180 degree turn. For all intents and purposes she finds it difficult to process the real world in a different manner. Everything she sees is the world avoiding her or merely “putting up with her”, a belief system that would naturally piss off her two closest friends. They were then forced to spell it out for her: it’s all in her mind. Such is the life of the socially outcast, and I can’t really blame her for it. Still, she should have started to break away at her previous beliefs, and it was really only now it seems that the wrong things about the way she looks at herself and the world has started to come to her attention. __________________ Medical Student vs. Anime Last Exile - Fam the Silver Wing -

2011-02-19, 03:45	Link #311
MeoTwister5 Komrades of Kitamura Kou Join Date: Jul 2004 Age: 39	It's not a misunderstanding inasmuch as it is about two people who can't be forthright and honest with themselves and each other. This wouldn't happen if they were. __________________ Medical Student vs. Anime Last Exile - Fam the Silver Wing -

2011-02-23, 02:02	Link #314
Spectacular_Insanity Ha ha ha ha ha... Graphic Designer Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Right behind you. Age: 35	Spoiler for Episode 7: Finally. Too bad it had to be KURUMI of all people to slap some sense into Sawako. I guess it takes someone who's not afraid to tell Sawako exactly what she thinks to her face, in order to get her to open her eyes. Hell, I kinda feel bad for Kurumi. Essentially doing a favor for the one who stole her love interest. And Pin is more clever than I gave him credit for. His reverse-psychology with Kazehaya was pretty slick. __________________

2011-02-17, 15:44	Link #304
Ahiru77 あひる Join Date: Feb 2007	Not that close ??!!!! Entire freakin season 1......Not THAT clo---....oh never mind. >_>

2011-02-17, 15:54	Link #305
Anh_Minh I disagree with you all. Join Date: Dec 2005	Yes, they've had their moments. Which she's treated like a big deal, every time. Did they go home together regularly, or at all? How many get-togethers have there been, outside of school? Did they eat lunch together? Played games together?

2011-02-19, 13:14	Link #312
broken270 Defying gravity Join Date: Jul 2010	Spoiler: So, here we have Shouta getting pissed off because he believes Kent did something to Sawako to make her cry. Although Sawako attempts to clear up this misunderstanding, that still does not mean that Shouta would be any less angry. Then, you have the three idiots coming out of nowhere and openly stating what their opinion is about the three of them. It was here that Shouta openly admits that he likes Sawako. Sawako most likely misunderstood that and still believes that Shouta is only being nice to her and she might be a bother to her due to his "love interest." Sawako snaps and starts to chase after him. Tension is running high as both members are trying to figure out what the other is currently thinking about. Shouta makes the first move and confronts her. He explains to her his feelings for her and confessed to her once more. Sawako is still quiet about all of this and is trying to gather up everything that has happened in her head. Noticing this, Stouta tries once more to reason with her while putting her feelings in mind. This causes both members of the party to misinterpret what the other is thinking about. Both of them like each other, but are too cautious about the others feelings and attempts to use the correct words to fix it, but it fails even more. Both of them separate, thinking that they were rejected by the other. Ayane and Chizuru are on the move to find Sawako. Ayane bumps into Kent and immediately asks him if he did something that may have ruined the relationship between Sawako and Kent. Had the conversation gone further, Ayane would have beaten him up. Kurumi caught word o the confession between Sawako and Shouta and asks Kent about what he just did. Meanwhile, Pit was the first person who attempted to cheer up Sawako, but Ayane and Chizuru stopped him just in time before this whole misunderstanding would be caught in a whole different ballgame. It looks like Chizuru was the one that finally made Sawako realize exactly what is going on, in which I thought Ayane would be the one to snap her out of in. Who can blame Sawako for thinking this way? She has been a recluse for so long that she has been too used to some of the negative aspects in her body and personality. Failing to make friends, having people misinterpret her actions, they were all unintentional, yet Sawako more or less takes this unto herself and keeps her optimism up by trying again next time. Then, she experiences all the happy moments that she has never had or experienced before, thus having a positive effect in her body. The feeling of love comes in, and it fluctuates up and down for her. At this point, it can be seen that it just reached the lowest point of love: the feeling of rejection. Everything might have gone back to the way things here in the past had not Ayane and Chizuru made her realize that she needs to stop over-thinking things and trust the feelings inside her to move her. By the time the next episode comes, I am hoping that it will be Sawako's turn to express her feelings to Shouta.

2011-02-23, 02:07	Link #315
pagan poor Swayin' to the beat Join Date: Dec 2006	Spoiler for Ep. 7: Kurumi is pretty bent that Sawako, the girl she lost to, STILL hasn't gotten together with Kazehaya. Definitely like pouring salt in the wounds. That whole sequence with Ayane, Chizu, Kent and Kurumi was sweet.

2011-02-23, 02:46	Link #316
Kismet-chan The Chaotic Dreamer Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: In a cruel yet beautiful world Age: 32	Spoiler for Episode 7: Awww, I felt so bad for Kent at the end! He was so sad. X3 __________________

2011-02-23, 04:16	Link #317
puretsundere Tachibana Isana Join Date: Sep 2007	Spoiler for Episode 7: Nice episode. Kurumi getting some nice screen time in this episode is awesome. It really had to take Kurumi, who is completely honest and clear about her feelings for Kazehaya to herself, to get Sawako to wake up and re-examine the situation. It must hurt Kurumi to see Sawako, the girl who "defeated" her for Kazehaya, look like she's not putting in everything to make this relationship work with Kazehaya. To lose after being rejected by Kazehaya to someone who can't confess properly, I think, hurts Kurumi more deeply than if Sawako and Kazehaya simply got together. And Kurumi's honest hurt feelings were exactly what Sawako needed to hear. And I really loved Ryu's last line "I don't think you're saying enough." Concise and was the final tipping point in getting Sawako to finally realize she wasn't doing enough to convey her feelings to Kazehaya. And I have to give it to Pin. For one episode, he wasn't a complete jerk and actually analyzed the situation nicely. His advice to give up on Sawako provided a nice shock to Kazehaya that I felt he needed. __________________

2011-02-23, 05:39	Link #318
Kanon Kana Hanazawa ♥ Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: France Age: 37	Spoiler for episode 7: Kazehaya and Sawako are lucky to have such smart and thoughtful people around them. They said everything that needed to be said, Kurumi in particular (I really wish she had slapped Sawako in the process). That should be more than enough for a wake-up call. The rest is up to the two of them now. If they can't get together after all this, then they have a serious problem. PS: You know it's bad when even Ryu thinks you don't talk enough __________________

2011-02-23, 06:08	Link #319
Shiroth Beautiful fighter. Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: England, UK Age: 37	Poor Joe. It's a shame he doesn't know his character is only used to break up conversations. __________________ MyAnimeList Twitter

2011-02-23, 06:27	Link #320
Velsy Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008	Episode 6 (I notice I am late) Animes very well done so far. Alot of thought put into the story and progress. Goes the show not everything turns out how everyone wants. Its a good direction. I actually thought Sawako rejected Kazehaya, but then later on Sawako saids he rejected her O_o. Its something I plan to go back and look apon. I gave Kazehaya the two thumbs up when he told Sawako he liked her, I knew it would come eventually. <-- still confuzzled who rejected who if Sawako said it wasn't her O_O I actually also thought it was all over for Sawako, it was a "not ment to be" moment, however its only 6 episodes in (still 6 or 7 left) and after Chizus truthful speech (I couldnt of said it better really O_O), I feel theres still a little hope for her ^_^ Ima still cheer her on, a round 2!