Superman: Man of Steel (2012)

[GDB]

I'm still curious as to the fate of Green Lantern. It was supposed to be a trilogy, and the first movie set up a second one already. Sure, it flopped, but ignore that for a minute. It can't have happened "before" Superman, since that would negate the whole "humans aren't ready for a super being/alien" thing. It shouldn't be after Superman, because otherwise he's a total dick who didn't help stop another city from being destroyed.

Guess the only real answer is "it flopped, so eff it".

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by GDB

I'm still curious as to the fate of Green Lantern. It was supposed to be a trilogy, and the first movie set up a second one already. Sure, it flopped, but ignore that for a minute. It can't have happened "before" Superman, since that would negate the whole "humans aren't ready for a super being/alien" thing. It shouldn't be after Superman, because otherwise he's a total dick who didn't help stop another city from being destroyed.

Guess the only real answer is "it flopped, so eff it".

No. The real answer is that Green Lantern came out before the payoff of doing these mega super hero crossovers became evident with the release of the Avengers. And Man of Steel was mostly done when that came out.


The reason there's no inter-continuity between Man of Steel and Green Lantern, is that they weren't planning for it. It's not like with the Avengers related movies, where everything was preplanned for a crossover since Iron Man.


The lack of anything like this from DC (aside from logo's of Wayne enterprises in Man of Steel) is one of the reasons I don't think a Justice league movie is as viable as Avengers.

[james0246]

I will say this, Man of Steel truly delivered on the action. In nearly every respect, the action sequences were superb and heads and tails above any other Superhero action film since at least Hellboy 2 (The Avengers really only had one decent/amazing action sequence, at that was the battle for New York). Sadly, while this is a financially sound selling point to aim for, it is not the best selling point for a potential franchise of pseudo-interconnected superhero tales leading to a grand mash-ups.

[sunset]

Originally Posted by james0246

Sadly, the series already feels spent. Where do you go after a full scale alien invasion that kills hundreds of thousands if not millions of people?

Given how everybody goes after their daily lives with Clark's new gig as a reporter and all, I'm inclined to consider those estimatives gravely exagerated.

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by james0246

I will say this, Man of Steel truly delivered on the action. In nearly every respect, the action sequences were superb and heads and tails above any other Superhero action film since at least Hellboy 2 (The Avengers really only had one decent/amazing action sequence, at that was the battle for New York).

I personally thought that kinda made the Avengers a better movie honestly. The super hero action scenes in Man of Steel were impressive, but by the time you get to the end of the movie, they're not really *awing* you anymore. How many times in a row can Superman punch somebody through a building, and it still feel incredible?

I'll be entirely honest. Despite Man of Steel being technically more grandiose than anything in Avengers, I personally don't think anything that happened in that movie was quite as awe inspiring as the "I'm always angry" Part of the Avengers.

YouTube

https://youtu.be/_Qq6dQwLh1s

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Originally Posted by sunset

Given how everybody goes after their daily lives with Clark's new gig as a reporter and all, I'm inclined to consider those estimatives gravely exagerated.

That's only because the people writing and directing Man of Steel have the power of authorial fiat to make the Daily Planet fully functionally despite Metropolis being hit by the equivalent of a nuke. People who actually do assessments on damage from natural disasters are probably a pretty good judge of how much damage was done.


And no. Zack Snyder and Nolan and the Man of Steel Writers don't get to pull bullshit on us saying "oh, not that many people were killed!" when they went and animated crowds of little cgi people being lifted up, then thrown to the ground.

[sunset]

1. Did he or did he not save seven BILLION people?
2. Did he have any control over the location of the battlefield? (Bear in mind that Zod could also fly and was determined to wipe out mankind)
3. When Zod throws Superman through a building, who is responsible for the building collapsing, Superman or Zod?

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by sunset

1. Did he or did he not save seven BILLION people?
2. Did he have any control over the location of the battlefield? (Bear in mind that Zod could also fly and was determined to wipe out mankind)
3. When Zod throws Superman through a building, who is responsible for the building collapsing, Superman or Zod?

And your point is...what? I'm not seeing how what you're saying has any relevance to my point that this movie had an extremely high death rate compared to the chipper mood of the ending. I don't see what Superman has to do with this (especially since the most casualties occurred when the terraforming engines got thumping).

[sunset]

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

And your point is...what? I'm not seeing how what you're saying has any relevance to my point that this movie had an extremely high death rate compared to the chipper mood of the ending. I don't see what Superman has to do with this (especially since the most casualties occurred when the terraforming engines got thumping).

Oh, my apologies.
I guess I lumped you with the folks criticizing Superman for the death-toll-that-nobody-actually-saw.
I see you skipped the middle man and went straight for the creative team as the true perpretators.

In which case, I think you are making a mistake.
You are thinking in terms of superhero movies.
If you think in terms of catastrophe movies, this movie actually pales in comparison with cherful, upbeat movies like Independence Day (where not one but every major city on the planet got vaporized with little to no time to evacuate).

Personaly, I think a couple city blocks in exchange for the salvation of the whole human race was a cheap price to pay.

[Shyni]

But this isn't a catastrophe movie.

Anyway, I'd say the most destruction happened early in the movie with Krypton.

[barcode120x]

Saw it today. Was definitely worth my money at the least, yet it was good too. Good visuals and decent acting. I thought Superman was a bit too quiet for this movie, wasn't very forward/aggressive, but at the same time that's kind how he's supposed to be I guess.

Spoiler for Man of Steel:

I duno, I mean I didn't get the entire thrill I thought I would waiting for this movie (I am by no means an comic/superhero fan, but I like watching the movies). The fighting was good, but for some reason it felt...slow I guess? At least for Superman. I mean he takes hard punches numerous times, then all of a sudden he starts doing hard punches back, then he takes more, then he gives some, etc. Like it was just a punching show. Don't get me wrong I like the destruction and stuff, but the fighting was plain.

I thought that ending was pretty bada$$ with Superman killing General Zod. Very emotional. I seriously thought he was gonna let Zod fry that family haha. And nothing ever beats that NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO or that UWAHHHHHH ending scream LOL

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by Shyni

But this isn't a catastrophe movie.

Anyway, I'd say the most destruction happened early in the movie with Krypton.

Krypton is a doomed planet that simply exploded. Your brain can say that's technically more destruction than on earth, but the human eye watching hundreds of people lifted up into the air, then smashed to the ground, is going to believe differently.

Originally Posted by sunset

Oh, my apologies.
I guess I lumped you with the folks criticizing Superman for the death-toll-that-nobody-actually-saw.
I see you skipped the middle man and went straight for the creative team as the true perpretators.

Exactly

Originally Posted by sunset

Oh, my apologies.
In which case, I think you are making a mistake.
You are thinking in terms of superhero movies.
If you think in terms of catastrophe movies, this movie actually pales in comparison with cherful, upbeat movies like Independence Day (where not one but every major city on the planet got vaporized with little to no time to evacuate).

Personaly, I think a couple city blocks in exchange for the salvation of the whole human race was a cheap price to pay.

It's not so simple as saying that Independence day had a bigger body count. There are more factors at play than that made the level of death in Man of Steel uncomfortable to me.

Sure Independence Day killed allot of people, but it didn't brush it under the rug. After the city gets nuked, allot of attention is paid to shell shocked survivors trying to get going after the attack. There was horrific destruction, but it felt like it was treated as being narrative important. Tell me. Does Man of Steel really linger over just how much destruction the Kryptonians have caused? Not really. Heck. From the audiences perspective, the number of people that Zod murdered is less emotionally important to Superman than the fact that he personally had to kill Zod.


And here's the thing about happy endings in movies where horrible things happen. It's sorta like mourning. A movie needs to give the audience a period to recover and reflect over mass destruction, then it can get on with the triumphant survival/victory aspect of the film. That's why the second half of Independence Day works so well. It's very well crafted to exploit the audiences feelings, since getting to see humans triumph the way they do is uplifting despite everything.

Really. People irked about the death toll aren't really even irked by the death toll in this movie. They're irked that Man of Steel doesn't follow the correct pop corn flick formula for making mass destruction in movies bearable, or giving it the serious/somber focus it deserves. That's why transitioning between Zod/Superman fighting in ground zero of where hundreds of thousands of people died, and Clark happily working at the Daily planet is jarring. Independence Day certainly never tried to show the audience that we went right back to the status quo after all that devestation.


I don't think this was a horrible movie. But some of the things with it were handled quite awkwardly.

[Tiberium Wolf]

I still wonder where is the superman red underwear.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Shyni

But this isn't a catastrophe movie.

This. Plus, Independence Day wasn't a launching pad for an entire "universe" of other movies, including a soon to come team-up movie where the stakes will have to be even higher.

Originally Posted by Tiberium Wolf

I still wonder where is the superman red underwear.

It's gone. He doesn't even have it in the comics anymore.

[sunset]

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

Really. People irked about the death toll aren't really even irked by the death toll in this movie.

Maybe because there was no death toll in this movie?
At least not a remarkable one?
Sure, there is lots of devastation and property damage, but do you actually see "millions" of people dying ANYWHERE on pannel?

No, but you do see the billions who didn't die thanks to this horrific battle.

[GDB]

I saw fewer people not die than people who did. They showed like, 7 people post-battle, yet at least dozens being lifted hundreds of feet in the air and then forcefully slammed back into the pavement.

Seriously, come on. Use critical thinking here. "Oh, they didn't show anyone die, so no one died!" Get real.

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by sunset

Maybe because there was no death toll in this movie?
At least not a remarkable one?
Sure, there is lots of devastation and property damage, but do you actually see "millions" of people dying ANYWHERE on pannel?

Oh right. So ONLY hundreds of thousands of people were killed. I guess that makes it not that big of a deal. I guess we don't have to pay one little bit of attention to how horrific any of this is supposed to be.

Originally Posted by sunset

No, but you do see the billions who didn't die thanks to this horrific battle.

This seems to be a big case of "not getting the point." The problem isn't that horrific events happened in the story. The problem is that the narrative of the story doesn't seem to understand just how bad what happened was. Despite flaunting it right in our faces.

Heck. An interview by the screenwriter of Man of Steel kinda stresses how out of it the screenwriters were.

“One of the things we were hoping to depict is that Superman is not a god. We say he’s a god-like figure but he’s not omnipotent. Even in the comic books he cannot save everyone. I think people die [in Metropolis]. Clearly hundreds if not thousands of people have died while the gravity machines are going off. There were probably even people who died in Smallville.

Really? Hundreds? You think you can grind the center of a modern metropolis into paste like that and maybe only kill hundreds of people?




Man. This entire line of thought reminds me of why I have such respect for allot of 80's sci-fi anime. Those series didn't shy away from how horrific these kind of large scale events are. Legend of Galactic Heroes did it best.

YouTube

https://youtu.be/2uR5SF4fx9Q

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Just the shows little reminder that in those massive fleet battles involving tens of thousands of vessels, that every-time you see some spark of light in the distance, this is happening.

[sunset]

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

Oh right. So ONLY hundreds of thousands of people were killed..

Even if hundreds of thousands died (which they didn't, unless you saw something nobody else saw happening on-panel)....

... Would you rather he did nothing and just stand to the side chewing gum as as 7 BILLION people die?

[GDB]

Again, you're completely missing the point. The original point:

Originally Posted by james0246

Sadly, the series already feels spent. Where do you go after a full scale alien invasion that kills hundreds of thousands if not millions of people?

And stop saying "on panel" as if you have to see it happen right in front of you to know it happened (it's also on-screen, since this isn't a comic book). It's already been outlined why your thinking is flawed.

[Sumeragi]

Not to join the discussion given that I haven't seen either movie, but this was funny:

[GDB]

HA! Priceless. Best part is I can totally read "Stark" in RDJ's voice, but cannot do the same for Supes.