2013-01-25, 00:58 | Link #5641 | |
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
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2013-01-25, 01:12 | Link #5642 | |
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If the ideal says that Orb would not let another nation invade it, and another nation invades it after a significant portion of Orb's military powers fled the nation on the order of the Representative of Orb, then that ideal no longer holds true. And if you insists that Orb's ideal is the same as democracy in the USA, then this would be similar to the US President ordering a ban on democracy, which would be ridiculous. The only logical interpretation of this event is that, while it is an ideal, it is not fundamental to Orb as a nation and can change. |
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2013-01-25, 01:34 | Link #5643 | |
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
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The problem is, ORB’s ideal aren’t hold by many ORB officials themselves. I bet they got too scared to fight for it after enjoying a long period of peace/stability, and in Destiny, they got scared due to the trauma of the Federation’s invasion which they unfairly blame it on Uzumi. So, yes, it is fundamental, but many ORB's people got chicken-out to hold it and dropped it. That said, Uzumi were practically left alone with only few people genuinely willing to fight with him. What do you suggest he can do? Like I said, he already fought the battle his own way by incinerating important facilities and letting Kusanagi and ORB’s “heir” to escape to someday rebuild ORB again. Oh, and how do you know that one ship like Kusanagi is significant compared to the entirety of ORB's military? Yes, it is ridiculous. That's my point. ORB abandoning their ideals after so many had died for it is ridiculous to me. Plus, their ideals is not a bad thing in the first place. The people of ORB just have to man-up and be ready to fight for it if necessary.
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2013-01-25, 01:42 | Link #5644 | ||
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2013-01-25, 01:50 | Link #5645 |
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
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Yes it is. ORB’s neutrality and its insistence on neutrality has been the soul of that country for a long time. Those poeple who got scared only want to keep the good things and afraid to fight when things got bad.
And? How’s that significant compared to many Astrays squads and battleships battling Federation’s MSs out there during the invasion ?
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2013-01-25, 02:01 | Link #5646 | ||
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Note that I'm not saying that it's not important. Foreign policies are important, but not as fundamentally important as democracy is to a country like the USA. Quote:
There's also the Archangel, which holds Freedom, Justice, and Buster, two of which were recognized by the AF as being major factors in why they weren't able to take the mass driver. |
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2013-01-25, 02:14 | Link #5647 | ||
Black Steel Knight
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I didn't mention Archangel faction simply because you can't count them as a part of ORB's military forces. They're a rogue/independent faction.
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2013-01-25, 02:19 | Link #5648 | ||
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2013-01-25, 02:26 | Link #5649 | |
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
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I always think that it's not commendable to use others to sacrifice themselves for the sake of your own country. I guess Uzumi is that type of man too.
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2013-01-25, 02:34 | Link #5651 |
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
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No, it didn't. I already posted my reasons for that. Not gonna repeat it again.
Like I said, Uzumi is that kind of man. Even more after seeing that the pilots of Justice and Buster are just a couple of confused youngsters who basically don't know what they should do. Plus, both Archangel and Kusanagi are spaceships which aren't that effective in atmosphere.
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2013-01-25, 02:41 | Link #5652 | ||
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Or you can quote the post. Quote:
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2013-01-25, 02:52 | Link #5653 | ||
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
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Uzumi simply know better .
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2013-01-25, 03:11 | Link #5654 | |||
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As for information, the lack of civil war or uprising in Orb after these ideals have been blatantly disregarded by Athha and Seiran and other ruling families is that information that tells us that these 3 ideals are not that important. By comparison, a US president wouldn't have been able to stop democracy in the USA so easily. Quote:
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2013-01-25, 03:41 | Link #5655 | ||
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
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No. He sent those kids to survive first and foremost. Yes, he had hope for them, but survival always the primary goal. There’s nothing wrong with granting youngsters and his own daughter more time to live.
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2013-01-25, 04:26 | Link #5656 | |||
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2013-01-25, 04:54 | Link #5657 | ||
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
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How can you confuse the context like that? Those people on Archangel are mainly from different countries, and those come from ORB are mostly kids. Uzumi most likely feel the need to let those foreigners and kids survive instead of sacrificing themselves in a losing war for ORB. The adults of ORB who knows what they're doing stays behind and continue to fight.
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2013-01-25, 05:12 | Link #5658 | ||||
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Also, judging by the people when Cagalli and Yuuna were about to get married, they clearly had no big problems with the government. Quote:
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In comparison, you're asking Orb to fight the Alliance in Destiny and risking the lives of all its citizens, even civilians, when the AF attacks Orb. |
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2013-01-25, 05:52 | Link #5659 | ||||
Black Steel Knight
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indonesia
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In Archangel’s case, Uzumi most likely didn’t wan’t to involve the foreigners and the kids further due to his personal feelings of "what's right", not by what they said. In Kusanagi’s case, Uzumi know he’ll lose, thus, instead of leaving the spaceship to be pillaged by Federation or to use it ineffectively in the atmosphere battle, he sent it to space with enough squad to do some more useful things, while at the same time throwing Cagalli, the “heir of ORB” (which was still a kid at that point), inside it to survive to rebuild ORB again someday. That's his hope. That’s my take on it. If you don’t agree, just say so. Quote:
On the other hand, if your nation was to be invaded by another jerk-ass nation, is it so wrong to ask for the resourceful citizens to fight for their beloved country alongside the governments military?
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Last edited by Obelisk ze Tormentor; 2013-01-25 at 06:05. |
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2013-01-25, 05:53 | Link #5660 | |
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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That particular "ideal" was more of a general rule to maintain the larger ideal which is neutrality.
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mecha, seed it and weep |
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