Mahou Senki Lyrical Nanoha Force Manga Discussion

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

At least Superman get the protection of lead that is able to stop cold Krypnites radiation. Is like the heroes where fighting foes with their entire body and weapons made of Kryptonite xDU

You get my point though.

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

This, the numbers are far more suited to this situation, we can have the Wolkies around and still count with the numbers as a specialized resxcue Team, it would be a nice surprise if some of them appeared to reacue Signum or to trun the tide of the Assault Battle, with all we know about the Huckebein they seem to be far more reliable than the AEC equipement. It will be a nice move if the Numbers appear to hold the Huckebein while Section Six reorganizes and perfect their equipement.

Let me state first and foremost that I fully agree that the numbers would have been a far better choice for this job, and I would have loved to see that happen. What I'm about to say now makes no sense in-universe, and mostly involves out of universe choices. It's my own pet-theory, and I have barely any proof to go along with it.

Recall for a moment the days of the first chapters of Force. Remember what the main complaints where? "Where is Nanoha?" "Where is Fate" "This series sucks, why even call it Nanoha if the titular character isn't in it?" and so on and so on. I don't know how the complaints were on the Japanese side, but considering the popularity of the characters in question, it wouldn't have surprised me if the voices were at least somewhat similar.

Now imagine the old cast being benches since they're, well, facing their kryptonite and the numbers taking over.

How well do you think this would go over with the majority of the fanbase? Not you specifically, just... generally. In my mind, I see the storm of flames being ten times as large as what we're having now. Vivid has the excuse of being a spin-off, but Force? I'd think the fans would go ballistic if the characters were to be benched like that.

Or so goes my theory on why the old cast gets the job, and not the new generation. Few authors have the balls to go against their fanbase, and Tsuzuki has chickened out before.

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

I'm not wanting her to sleept at Signum's side while holding her hand crying. It would be nice or inspiring if she at least make a comment to herself, give a expression of corncern or at least a short scene where she approach Vita and reasures her that everything will be fine. It's sad to see Hayate's kindness fade away with the age. But maybe she will start to care now that she got stabbed and Vita is in bed xD.

Dunno, Hayate's look on page four seems to say "I am going to make whoever is responsible for this pay dearly for messing with my family."

Yeah, it's not sadness and tears, but like I said, she's a big girl now. Crying at Signum's side will come when the time is there.

[Justin_Brett]

I wasn't really thinking that, for what it's worth. I was just shaking my head at how 'we have a MALE protagonist now!' had become such a unique thing in this series.

I personally doubt anything bad would happen from calling their bluff, especially considering we have a 123 page thread dedicated to archiving Nanoha merchandise. But hey, maybe I don't get something.

[Iromaru]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

I'm wondering what will be the psychological impact Karen's meeting will have to Hayate.

I doubt it will even be touched upon. After one chapter focusing on rehabilitation and patching up Wolkies they will get back to the job like if nothing happened. Just like it was before the battle with Hucks when they all acted like if they were going on a picnic.

Originally Posted by Keroko

How well do you think this would go over with the majority of the fanbase?

Compared with old cast getting slaughtered and humiliated left and right? Old devices everybody loved getting shafted? Signum acting like a retard? Hayate being a terrible commander?

There obviously would be a lot of complaining at the beginning, but if the story and action were good I'm sure everybody would get used to new cast. And we have Vivid for old characters anyways.

Tsuzuki is just a coward afraid to make a Nanoha related series without super popular old characters.

Originally Posted by Keroko

Hayate's look on page four seems to say "I am going to make whoever is responsible for this pay dearly for messing with my family."

She sure did...

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

I was just shaking my head at how 'we have a MALE protagonist now!' had become such a unique thing in this series.

It is a VERY unique thing in mahou shojo. Sure Nanoha isn't a true mahou shojo for a long time but still nobody thought that there will be a male lead in Nanoha series. Ever.

And honestly I don't like it. At first when I heard we have a male lead with cute girls who like him I was terrified that they want to turn Nanoha into another crappy harem. Besides we have enough action series with male leads already.

And now Touma don't feel like the lead character at all. Isis is more of a MC than him. And a much better character than him too.

[Justin_Brett]

Not just like an unusual thing for a magical girl show, but like 'Hey look, NANOHA has an important male character now! How new and inventive of us!"

But that's getting into Unfortunate Implications, so I'll shut up.

[Akiyoshi]

I can't really comment on the popularity of FORCE ebfore introducing the old cast because i didn't join the Nanoha forum until FORCE Ch. 7(i was joined animesukia year before but only for the Signum Fanclub and some images of Haruhi xDU), but personally while it's true i have some complains at the beggining about things like drawstyle and pacing i also didn't have anything special against FORCE. Also...

Originally Posted by Iromaru

Compared with old cast getting slaughtered and humiliated left and right? Old devices everybody loved getting shafted? Signum acting like a retard? Hayate being a terrible commander?

There obviously would be a lot of complaining at the beginning, but if the story and action were good I'm sure everybody would get used to new cast. And we have Vivid for old characters anyways.

Tsuzuki is just a coward afraid to make a Nanoha related series without super popular old characters.

...this. It's very unpleasant seeing the old cast treated like red shirts(ok, Mauve Shirts xDU) and having their intelligence reduced for the sake of drama.

Originally Posted by Iromaru

It is a VERY unique thing in mahou shojo. Sure Nanoha isn't a true mahou shojo for a long time but still nobody thought that there will be a male lead in Nanoha series. Ever.

And honestly I don't like it. At first when I heard we have a male lead with cute girls who like him I was terrified that they want to turn Nanoha into another crappy harem. Besides we have enough action series with male leads already.

To be honest i didn't have any major problem with this, it's original and kind of interesting(except for the "Crappy harem" part that is fortunately avioded by this point). Tohma starts decently(if a bit cliched, the classic good and inocent guy who didn't catch the attention he's receiving and have a cool big sis figure, classic formula).

Originally Posted by Iromaru

And now Touma don't feel like the lead character at all. Isis is more of a MC than him. And a much better character than him too.

This is the main problem, Tohma so far just have his introduction and then got stripped of any significant interactionb with the setting aside of being a walking terminator and the MCGuffin boy everyone wants now xDU. Of course Isis is gettin more love than him, the girl is showing her guts and bravery, people love brave characters(at least i do xD).

Originally Posted by Keroko

Dunno, Hayate's look on page four seems to say "I am going to make whoever is responsible for this pay dearly for messing with my family."

Originally Posted by Iromaru

She sure did...

Glad that at least Vita showed some corncern and give a pissed face in Ch. 8

Originally Posted by Keroko

Yeah, it's not sadness and tears, but like I said, she's a big girl now. Crying at Signum's side will come when the time is there.

Waiting for that is one of my motivations for keep reading FORCE xD.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by Iromaru

I doubt it will even be touched upon. After one chapter focusing on rehabilitation and patching up Wolkies they will get back to the job like if nothing happened. Just like it was before the battle with Hucks when they all acted like if they were going on a picnic.

I never watched Signum acting like that, she was one of the most active one the mission to follow these people. Besides, they looked happy to see each other again but also Vita remains Rein that this is not the time to celebrate, Hayate didn't looked like if she were on a picnic in the slightiest(nor showing any other emotion, really i challenge you to find a single picture of Hayate smilling during FORCE, a single one).

I don't know how much confidence she had to accept this mission but things go awry, she still trust on her ace, a spell able to stop these people but then Karen, a suitable evil counterpart for her appears and foil her counter-measures in a flash, giving confidence to her crew and stoling the scene(while also hurting Vita right in front of her). Probably with her new "cold commander" attitude she didn't show to be affected but knowed how she thinks for the past three seasons i know that this wouldn't go unnoticed by her.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Iromaru

Tsuzuki is just a coward afraid to make a Nanoha related series without super popular old characters.

Agreed. *grumbles once more about how Vita should have died in the Cradle.*

Originally Posted by Iromaru

And now Touma don't feel like the lead character at all. Isis is more of a MC than him. And a much better character than him too.

There's a difference between a more interesting character, and a main character. Isis hasn't been central to the plot in the manga so far. Supporting Touma, helping exposition Touma, getting people into gear to save Touma, even her fighting was a momentary show-off before she got knocked down.

She's an obvious side character. A really interesting one, but a side-character nonetheless.

[aers]

Yes, it's absolutely impossible to make anything out, but I'm crossposting it anyway, since it is Force related... (I believe it's from the cover of this month's Nyantype).



This image somehow sparked the idea that Touma is in the new PSP game.. *runs*

[Akiyoshi]

Ooooooook ....let the new discussion begin xDU

[Koveras Alvane]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

Ooooooook ....let the new discussion begin xDU

You mean, you guys are gonna talk about something other than bitching about how the new direction the series took with Force sucks? O__O

[aers]

Definitely is the front page of the new Nyantype~

http://anime.webnt.jp/nt-news/?detail=2360

In that article they mention there will be a Force-related announcement right before the release of volume 3 (which is 3/31)..which conveniently puts the announcement in next month's Nyantype. Herp.

With regards to this month's chapter.. Since release date is the 28th expect actual spoiler info on the chapter in 2-3 days.

[Nanya01]

Naked Hayate transformation!

WHEE!

[Akiyoshi]

Well. we can take a recess until spoilers for Ch. 14 finally come out.

Let's talk about hmmm... Did you guys know if Shari is part of the Wolfram's crew xD?

[Tiresias]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

Well. we can take a recess until spoilers for Ch. 14 finally come out.

Let's talk about hmmm... Did you guys know if Shari is part of the Wolfram's crew xD?

She wasn't shown during the Eclipse (maybe supporting whatever Teana's doing). But then again, so did Caro.

[Akiyoshi]

As long a her last name is still Finieno everything will be fine xD

[Justin_Brett]

Originally Posted by aers

Yes, it's absolutely impossible to make anything out, but I'm crossposting it anyway, since it is Force related... (I believe it's from the cover of this month's Nyantype).



This image somehow sparked the idea that Touma is in the new PSP game.. *runs*

...Why wouldn't he be? Gears is going to have characters from Vivid and Force, and he's kind of the first one ever in that second category.

[Sage Shinigami]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Agreed. *grumbles once more about how Vita should have died in the Cradle.*

The Nanoha universe would be so much lamer if that had happened.

In that article they mention there will be a Force-related announcement right before the release of volume 3 (which is 3/31)..which conveniently puts the announcement in next month's Nyantype. Herp.

Wasn't the last announcement something trivial? Like, "Fate-chan is back!" or whatever?

[Tiresias]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

As long a her last name is still Finieno everything will be fine xD

...why? Afraid that she would be Shari Mondial, Shari Granscenic or even Shari Acous one day?

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Sage Shinigami

The Nanoha universe would be so much lamer if that had happened.

No.

As it stand now, the cast is bloated and not every characters are properly used or given their proper ambitions or purposes. And a franchise that is shackled to its core of super popular characters is condemned to stagnate within its own in-jokes and fandom generated memes.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Sage Shinigami

The Nanoha universe would be so much lamer if that had happened.

Why would it be? Vita, having pushed herself to protect Nanoha falls prey to the stealth-drone. Despite bleeding through a new hole in her chest, she pushes on, defeating an entire army of stealth drones. Once at the defense system, she breaks through its defenses and even the core's ultra-hard armor, completely shattering Graf Eisen and dieing after having fulfilled her goal.

It was the perfect setup, right down to the 'we'll meet again' 'you better be allright' goodbye between Nanoha and Vita. This moment was written to obviously lead up to a heroic death, and the only reason it didn't happen was because Tsuzuki chickened out.

[00-Raiser]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

As long a her last name is still Finieno everything will be fine xD

That's what it was in chapter 2. Doubt it would have changed since then.