US media covers the middle east protests extensively but fails at home

[Solace]

Originally Posted by justinstrife

Oh Unions should be allowed to bargain, but the employer, should be allowed to tell them to shove it where the sun don't shine as well. The employer being the Government, which is the taxpayer.

The bill had nothing to do with the Private sector at all. Strictly the Public sector.

It also had nothing to do with the budget, which was what the Republicans claimed was the reason it was in the bill in the first place. Then it is passed after stripping all other budget items from the bill, under dubious methods that will likely be challenged in court.

I get that you're going to argue the whole "public isn't the same as private since public has taxpayer funding" thing, and you can find that as disagreeable as you please. However the whole reason people were protesting to begin with is that in the views of all but one Republican, stripping the ability for workers to have a seat at the bargaining table when they were even willing to take concessions for the budget as long as they could keep the right to negotiate, was something they were unwilling to compromise on.

I'm sure it's easy to find proof otherwise, but I'll make the point that the average public service worker is not highly paid. It's the nice government benefits that make up the difference, especially in an era of constant department budget cuts and other austerity. And even so, should these people not be paid well if they perform well? They are providing vital assistance to society by educating children, keeping your community safe, and providing emergency assistance when say....your house (or your neighbors) is on fire.

If anything private employees should be angered that their benefits and wages have remained relatively stagnant since the 70's as the pay and benefits of their upper management has risen to staggering levels in the same time. Private unions were the backbone of the country during its most prosperous years, and yet went into heavy decline after Reagan (who was President during the Airline Union breaking). By the way, about pilots....you'd be appalled and disgusted at what the average pilot earns these days, for major airlines even. Remember these people are responsible for the lives of hundreds, sometimes thousands of people.

I won't disagree that Unions, by nature of being an organization, can become corrupt. But I do believe there is an increasingly smaller voice for the working class of the country who is also increasingly told to put up or shut up no matter how many times they get the shaft.

On topic to this thread, what you didn't see reported much in the Wisconsin bill is the "No-bid Contract" that allows the legislature to sell any public asset for any price it deems with or without solicitation of bids, and that any purchase is considered to be in the public interest with full compliance.

[Jinto]

Originally Posted by Solace

...
On topic to this thread, what you didn't see reported much in the Wisconsin bill is the "No-bid Contract" that allows the legislature to sell any public asset for any price it deems with or without solicitation of bids, and that any purchase is considered to be in the public interest with full compliance.

This seems to be very easily exploitable (cronyism).

[Vexx]

The "no-bid" was specifically put in place to benefit the specific money sources that underpin Walker and his people: the Koch brothers. The bill is fundamentally a sell-out of the state and its assets to these two billionaires. It also advances their agenda of a 'no holds barred for *them*' environment.. .not you, not mr. small businessman... but Koch Industries.

The Teapot Dome Scandal is looking pretty pale at this point.... if you like living under robber barons and 1890s style "corporate feudalism" its going to be great -- except that all but about 400 of us *AREN'T* in that country club.

[Kyuu]

Originally Posted by Vexx

The "no-bid" was specifically put in place to benefit the specific money sources that underpin Walker and his people: the Koch brothers. The bill is fundamentally a sell-out of the state and its assets to these two billionaires. It also advances their agenda of a 'no holds barred for *them*' environment.. .not you, not mr. small businessman... but Koch Industries.

The Teapot Dome Scandal is looking pretty pale at this point.... if you like living under robber barons and 1890s style "corporate feudalism" its going to be great -- except that all but about 400 of us *AREN'T* in that country club.

Thus, one thing to wonder: who may have the balls to take on the Koch Brothers?

[justinstrife]

Originally Posted by Solace

It also had nothing to do with the budget, which was what the Republicans claimed was the reason it was in the bill in the first place. Then it is passed after stripping all other budget items from the bill, under dubious methods that will likely be challenged in court.

I get that you're going to argue the whole "public isn't the same as private since public has taxpayer funding" thing, and you can find that as disagreeable as you please. However the whole reason people were protesting to begin with is that in the views of all but one Republican, stripping the ability for workers to have a seat at the bargaining table when they were even willing to take concessions for the budget as long as they could keep the right to negotiate, was something they were unwilling to compromise on.

I'm sure it's easy to find proof otherwise, but I'll make the point that the average public service worker is not highly paid. It's the nice government benefits that make up the difference, especially in an era of constant department budget cuts and other austerity. And even so, should these people not be paid well if they perform well? They are providing vital assistance to society by educating children, keeping your community safe, and providing emergency assistance when say....your house (or your neighbors) is on fire.

If anything private employees should be angered that their benefits and wages have remained relatively stagnant since the 70's as the pay and benefits of their upper management has risen to staggering levels in the same time. Private unions were the backbone of the country during its most prosperous years, and yet went into heavy decline after Reagan (who was President during the Airline Union breaking). By the way, about pilots....you'd be appalled and disgusted at what the average pilot earns these days, for major airlines even. Remember these people are responsible for the lives of hundreds, sometimes thousands of people.

I won't disagree that Unions, by nature of being an organization, can become corrupt. But I do believe there is an increasingly smaller voice for the working class of the country who is also increasingly told to put up or shut up no matter how many times they get the shaft.

On topic to this thread, what you didn't see reported much in the Wisconsin bill is the "No-bid Contract" that allows the legislature to sell any public asset for any price it deems with or without solicitation of bids, and that any purchase is considered to be in the public interest with full compliance.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/1576985935-post52.html

This gentleman speaks far more eloquently than I ever could on issues such as this, so I will link you to one of his posts.

[Sugetsu]

Originally Posted by KyuuA4

Thus, one thing to wonder: who may have the balls to take on the Koch Brothers?

If it was just the Koch Brothers then things wouldn't be so bad. There are still other huge power figures, such Rupert Murdoch, Dick Cheney, pretty much all of goldman sachs, Warren Buffett, Alan Greenspan, Robert Rubin, all big oil companies, Ted Turner, Larry Summers and many, many more.

[Vexx]

One thing to consider here is that Justin lives in a state where the public unions, coupled with the government rolling over, and with the uber-wealthy skipping the bill over to the middle class - has indeed put the state in an untenable gridlock. So if you want to create 'bad guys' ... public union leaders, ineffective administrations, and an aristocracy that pays almost nothing while the vast middle/uppermiddle class takes it in the chitlins.

What is under-reported by all sides is just how Walker decimated revenue streams before this just after taking office - it put the state in a fragile situation. He basically created a crisis to push through this omnibus bill that contains a lot of thievery without even bothering to pretend it is something else. That's a fundamental problem I have with the current GOP -- they're liars about fiscal responsibility. They make as much sense as someone who drives a Corvette without ever changing the oil or maintaining it... in fact, they take out the safety belts and the windshield and keep the brake fluid at the lowest level possible.

Then they say, "See??? It doesn't work!!!" when it fails.

[Solace]

Originally Posted by justinstrife

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/1576985935-post52.html

This gentleman speaks far more eloquently than I ever could on issues such as this, so I will link you to one of his posts.

I'm well aware of how government works, and all the benefits and perks it entails. The poster on that forum is correct, if I'm understanding him correctly, that "management" (the taxpayer) has limited if any say in some if not all agreements. It is collusion, but there's a reason for it.

In a private union, say UAW vs GM, the two are at opposing ends. Each wants as much of the pie as is deemed fair in negotiation.

In a public union, it's public employees vs public employees. There's an interest in the pie but there's also a budget to consider. In previous times States could simply deficit on the plans of tomorrow. As the country as a whole is hurting, and likely will be for a long time, this isn't possible anymore (of course it never really was to begin with).

So while I do agree that (all) Unions should sacrifice if needed for the benefit of everyone, I also believe that they should be included in that decision. I also feel that this should be extended to all workers, but hey I'm a progressive so I know it's not an easy idea to sell.

I'm not so much bothered that the ability to negotiate was removed as I am the way it was removed. To simply force the choice despite powerful protest from the other parties in the legislature not even getting a chance to find an alternative, and even going so far as to push it through in a shady manner with the reservation of one of your own party and the Governor going on record stating he might consider a compromise, when the people losing those negotiation abilities are desperately conceding on any cuts except losing their voice....it just bothers me deeply. Watching the video of the Minority Democrat trying to make his point and being swept aside....it was infuriating honestly.

Beyond all that, the measures weren't exactly a make or break on the budget. Walker's budget shortfall isn't any different than the governor's he replaced, but it does have additional weight added to it due to his tax breaks shortly after taking office.

I find it hard to believe that public unions are that big of a strain on a state budget, especially in Wisconsin where some of the public unions were exempt from this measure anyway. In the scheme of things, the state (and the country as a whole) have much bigger problems than how much public employees are collecting in benefits. I won't argue that they aren't worthy of addressing, but I would argue that they're lower on the totem pole of things to fix.

The whole thing reeks of politics, and not good policy making. Unfortunately these decisions affect the paychecks and lives of real people, and I often wonder how well some of our leadership sleeps at night knowing how powerful their decisions really are.

[GundamFan0083]

Originally Posted by Vexx

The "no-bid" was specifically put in place to benefit the specific money sources that underpin Walker and his people: the Koch brothers. The bill is fundamentally a sell-out of the state and its assets to these two billionaires. It also advances their agenda of a 'no holds barred for *them*' environment.. .not you, not mr. small businessman... but Koch Industries.

The Teapot Dome Scandal is looking pretty pale at this point.... if you like living under robber barons and 1890s style "corporate feudalism" its going to be great -- except that all but about 400 of us *AREN'T* in that country club.

QFT.

I might add that while public unions should not exist due to the fact that government is a monopolistic power with no competition, the trend that Gov. Walker has set with this brazen legal maneuver may have farther reaching implications for private unions that are necessary to protect workers.

Of course that said, the Democrats who ran away bear some of the blame for this situation.
They should have stood and fought, even though they were certain to lose (thank you teacher synaesthetic ), and showed through meaningful debate--rather than stupid-antics--how and why Walker's bill was bad.

Both sides have caused damage to the democratic process with this fiasco in WI.

Now the question remains, will this nonsense spread to other states, or will it die in WI?

[synaesthetic]

I really hate doing this, but... seriously guys...

It's "LOSE." Not "loose."

Get it right, jeez.

[GundamFan0083]

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

I really hate doing this, but... seriously guys...

It's "LOSE." Not "loose."

Get it right, jeez.

That's what happens when you start getting old.
You type at lightening speed...it all starts looking the same...and shit happens.

[synaesthetic]

My inner grammar Nazi just couldn't let it pass!

[Kyero Fox]

Uugh, please forgive that entire post.. I'm a bit drunk atm because of a party..

[Kameruka]

Media biases are always stupid, regardless what side you on. Take a look in my country for example...

Malaysian Media: Israelis are evil and they killed Palestinian kids.
Me: What about Palestinians who killed Israeli kids. They are innocent too you know.
Malaysian Media: Palestinians killed Israeli kids because they want their land back from those evil bastards. Israeli kids deserve to die.
Me: Wow! What a sh*tload of f*ck!!

Don't take it too seriously on that and I also believed same thing may happen on the other side. Now newspapers and nightly telecasts only catering what people wants to read, see and believe. Not telling the truth regardless the listeners and viewers like it or not.

[Sugetsu]

Originally Posted by Kameruka

Media biases are always stupid, regardless what side you on. Take a look in my country for example...

Malaysian Media: Israelis are evil and they killed Palestinian kids.
Me: What about Palestinians who killed Israeli kids. They are innocent too you know.
Malaysian Media: Palestinians killed Israeli kids because they want their land back from those evil bastards. Israeli kids deserve to die.
Me: Wow! What a sh*tload of f*ck!!

Don't take it too seriously on that and I also believed same thing may happen on the other side. Now newspapers and nightly telecasts only catering what people wants to read, see and believe. Not telling the truth regardless the listeners and viewers like it or not.

Media can and does contribute to define and mold the way people think.

[Vinak]

I still consider local news coverage to be mostly reliable here....coverage of this incident has been ongoing throughout the whole thing as well....but that is to be expected I guess.


continued coverage of recall movement.
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/117804138.html

[solomon]

My opinions/observations.

Frankly the Newspapers are the best providers of local coverage and overall, local news (print/radio/tv) works best when covering events of major importance and or effect, such as this and disasters weather related or otherwise.

This is because TV has largely oriented itself towards stories which can best be communicated via rolling film and in fairly dramatic fashion. Western News has a certain "theatrical" or "illustrative" style about it, where as I see Japanese (and probably other Asian news) have a more clinical, rigid, almost academic (relatively speaking) style.

Otherwise despite having it's own problems, print is frankly still your best bet for detailed info. Radio/TV is good for sound bites, weather, traffic and sports. Little else.

Cable News is similar to local tv news, good for dramatic big time developments, otherwise you can do better especially since cable news has evolved into Talk Radio lite.

[Kyuu]

Originally Posted by solomon

Western News has a certain "theatrical" or "illustrative" style about it, where as I see Japanese (and probably other Asian news) have a more clinical, rigid, almost academic (relatively speaking) style.

This all changed with the 24/7 news cycle. And speaking of which, perhaps this Wiki article needs some attention:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24-hour_news_cycle

It's a pity how it is so short.

===

With 24/7 news, networks face the problem of: "What do we fill into a specific time slot, such that people would still watch the channel?"

I tuned out the likes of CNN years ago, because much of the material isn't actual news. It's a lot of opinion, discussion, sensationalism, and other worthless crap. As far as news was concerned, I was happy back when it was just a 30-minute to 1-hour segment on prime time. Oh, how I miss the likes of Peter Jennings, for example.

Nowadays, it is as if news sources appear desperate for anything to happen - just so that they can actually "report" on something.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by KyuuA4

This all changed with the 24/7 news cycle. And speaking of which, perhaps this Wiki article needs some attention:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24-hour_news_cycle

It's a pity how it is so short.

===

Actually, it started changing before that - during the Reagan administration in the 80s when "news" became a profit-revenue center instead of a "we have to do this as a community service or the community will jerk our broadcast license".

Now the sole purpose of television news from the large corporate media is to keep your eyeballs through the commercial break. Watch the local news (owned by one of the few large corporations) and time how much *actual* content there is (in between the animated graphic crap and non-news) and don't count repeated data. You're lucky if there's 5 minutes in a half hour. Watch the national news networks .... not much different.

No one can call themselves informed if they only use ABC/NBC/CBS/FOX/CNN/blargh.