Spoiler Policy Q&A thread

[Slice of Life]

On a related note, is there a possibility to implement some kind of forum-wide deactivation button for the spoiler protection? "Open all spoilers", something like that? Or is there a firefox add-on that does the trick?

[Vexx]

The anti-example's title tag in my previous post was completely uninformative. It provided no useful information for a reader to gauge whether it was safe to open the spoiler or not:
(repeated here)

Spoiler for oh my, in the manga!:

character X dies in chapter six!!!!!!!

A reasonable alternative to my anti-example might be:

Spoiler for manga chapter six - major plot revelation/spoiler:

Character X dies in chapter six.

This followup example at least tells the reader that if they haven't read chapter six they might want to avoid opening the tag.

Personally, I'm not against novel spoilers in anime threads if they're labeled such - but so many people have posted untagged novel revelations in those threads the mods apparently decided it was time for "scorched earth", so no novel revelations at all even in tags. That's fine for the subforums where a specific thread can be created to compare novel/manga to anime but it does leave the series with single threads unable to critique/compare the adaptation.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by The Small One

Actually, depending on the reader, the caption of your spoiler-tag could be considered a spoiler as well. The information, that a major thing happens in a special chapter is already a spoiler in itself.
Using something like "manga chapter 6", or "recent manga chapter" should be sufficient.

You are technically correct, but if only that were the main thing we were worried about. I'll take a million of Vexx's second example over one of the first any day of the week and twice on days that end with a "y". At least in the latter case, you know that it's probably a bad thing to open the spoiler, which is the most important thing -- to prompt the person to decide, based on what they know of the story, if it's safe to open the spoiler.

And even though what you suggest is technically preferable, how many times do we see posts like this:

OMG that episode was crazy!!! 10/10!!!

Spoiler:

Stuff happened

Obviously, that is not what we want -- we want the entire post to be in spoiler tags, including the opening remarks. And we also want the spoiler tag to identify the episode being spoiled, and not give away any of the contents.

But you know, frankly, this is one of those "pick your battles" things. What you point out is indeed technically correct, but I'd gladly trade "people now have a vague idea that something major happens in an upcoming chapter! Oh no!" for "people didn't know that the spoiler tag was going to reveal a major plot development and now it's ruined for them". I know some of you think that "well it was a spoiler tag! It's obvious you'll get spoiled!" but it really isn't that simple. If you want to ask "which behaviour should we teach and encourage", you're of course correct. But in terms of issuing warnings and infractions, we've got to deal with the larger problem first. I personally think the second example is a massive improvement over the first.

[Sinfully Naomi]

Originally Posted by Daniel E.

I sure can blame the person that replies to your comment without using a tag at all, that's for sure.

In the example I deleted, the ending of a game was discussed in an image thread. They were using spoiler tags at first, then along came someone who didn't think it was such a big deal to use them, and ended up spoiling the whole thing for all that were reading at the time. >_<

Truly, regardless of how much self-control one can have, it matters little if others are going to spread the spoiler all over the thread as part of the conversation.

I see. Well, that shows the level of commen sense of that user... or lack there of.

I propose making eveyrthing in certain forums a spoiler, if there was such an option.(or code that can be created for it for that matter)

EX:
Manga Topics
Art Topics, ect.

I don't know if that would be possible, but that would certain stop a lot of fuss if it were. Could it be possible, now that I think about it? I code in the forum, that works like a swear filter, but whenever the word "Manga" or "pictures" or words of any admin's choice were put in, it could be instant spoilers for the posts?

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by Slice of Life

On a related note, is there a possibility to implement some kind of forum-wide deactivation button for the spoiler protection? "Open all spoilers", something like that? Or is there a firefox add-on that does the trick?

To answer my own question after doing some research: Yes, there is an add-on that does the trick, namely Stylish which allows you to write your own stylesheets to override the ones already present. It's easy to implement a minimal solution that keeps all spoilerboxes always open for you.

Spoiler for the necessary code:

@-moz-document domain("forums.animesuki.com") {
.spoilerbox
{ 
display: block!important;
}
}

I'd rather have them open by default but still closable, mainly to hide large images that screw with the layout. But I don't see how this is possible without modifying the javascript. Greasemonkey seems to be the right tool to do that but I haven't looked into it yet. And I'm also neither an expert on stylesheets nor on javascript..

For those people who click on every spoilerbox anyway this might simplify things. When speed reading through a few pages of a thread frequent spoiler boxes can be a real hassle.

[felix]

http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=72998

See: K. Maximum Image Size

(covers how to do it in Opera as well)

[Slice of Life]

Thanks, Cats. Now that problem is solved too.

[frubam]

I blazed the first 2 pgs and didn't see the answer i was looking for, so i apologize if it's in the last 4 pgs, but how is one to go about the current translated chapter or subbed ep? I've seen 2 methods:

a)contain the current(most up-to-date) subbed episode/tranlated chapter in spoilers.

b)just post normally w/o the use of spoiler tags.

This is assuming the anime has no episode-specific threads(ex. Gundam 00 episode 3 thread). I usually think option A is more curtious in case of lurkers, but recently, i've been finding it a bit mundane to do this. Normally though, I generally follow how everyone else is doing it, but i wanted to know the proper etiquette here.

[KholdStare]

Well if the post is thumbnailed it wouldn't need spoiler tags right?

[SeijiSensei]

Originally Posted by frubam

i wanted to know the proper etiquette here.

I wish I could say there was a clear answer to your question, but since we're talking about etiquette rather than rules we're in rather murky territory.

I've written about spoiler tag etiquette in a couple of series threads. Everyone seems to agree (thankfully) that spoiler tags are mandatory when an episode has been aired but no English subs have yet been released. There are a sufficient number of raw viewers that conversation about a new episode happens almost immediately after it's aired in Japan. This is often also the time manga readers will feel the need to discuss how the episode differed from the manga, which can often lead into spoiler territory as well.

Attitudes seem to differ about the use of spoiler tags once a sub has been released. Personally I continue to use spoiler tags for at least 24-48 hours after the first sub appears because many people don't watch the releases right away. How long I wait usually depends on how popular the show is. After that period has elapsed I figure open discussion is fair game and stop using spoilers.

Many people object to protecting our fellow members from spoilers on the grounds that people should know better than to browse in a series thread in the period between airing and sub release. I think this is a reasonable observation for series that have sub-forums with separate threads for each episode, but it works less well for shows with one consolidated thread. There I think a bit of delay between sub release and open discussion is more polite.

All these problem become magnified when subs for a series lag far behind their original airings in Japan. These situations make episode-based discussions rather difficult. The raw viewers can start commenting on a show right after it airs, but if subs aren't released for weeks or months thereafter, discussion usually comes to quick end and often isn't revived when the subs do appear. For an example of this, take a look at the thread for Saiunkoku Monogatari Season II, where there were long periods without subs. The last third of that season was never really extensively discussed because, by the time the subs appeared, most AS members had gone on to other shows. Genji Monogatari Sennenki is suffering a similar fate at the moment.

[Proto]

What's the policy for commenting about episode previews in anime threads which do not have their own forum? In series which have their own forum?

And I re-ask a question that was left unanswered last time

I see that in character dedicated threads spoilers are allowed, however is that allowance restricted to spoilers related to the character in question, to the series in question, or there are not restrictions as to what spoilers can be posted?

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Proto

What's the policy for commenting about episode previews in anime threads which do not have their own forum? In series which have their own forum?

I would say that it's considered polite to put it in spoiler tags, but if it was shown in the actual episode, even in the next-episode preview, I think it's okay to discuss it in series forums. That being said, it still would not be okay to invoke source material knowledge to discuss next episode previews.

As for the question about spoilers in character discussion threads, I think spoilers could be allowed if they are relevant to the topic and if the label clearly explains the exact source of the spoiler. Any off-topic spoilers, like any off-topic posts, can be reported.

[White Manju Bun]

Originally Posted by Proto

What's the policy for commenting about episode previews in anime threads which do not have their own forum? In series which have their own forum?

And I re-ask a question that was left unanswered last time

From what Ive seen its fine as long as its seperate from the current epi discussion

Spoiler for thoughts on epi 1:

Thought it was rad.

Spoiler for preview for epi 2:

Looks epic!

or included in another set of tags like so...

Spoiler for epi 1:

Too much filler!

Spoiler for epi 2 preview:

Looks like another filler!

I think either would be fine in regular threads or subforum threads again as long as theyre marked.

[Proto]

ic. I agree in that tagging episode previews should be mandatory, as there are many people (including some I personally know) who avoid the previews as they would avoid any other spoilerful information. Can I start reporting posts which contain untagged episode previews then?

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Proto

ic. I agree in that tagging episode previews should be mandatory, as there are many people (including some I personally know) who avoid the previews as they would avoid any other spoilerful information. Can I start reporting posts which contain untagged episode previews then?

While White Manju Bun's proposal is a logical way of organizing a post (and I have no objections), you'll notice that she posted the entire episode post in spoiler tags, which is not a requirement of the spoiler policy (only a recommendation if you're watching raws). Further, I can't find anything in the Spoiler Policy that would indicate or suggest that episode previews should count as spoilers, as they were, in fact, a part of the episode. Her proposed structure is certainly considerate, but it's not a requirement.

So based on the way the Spoiler Policy is currently written, I could not support giving Spoiler warnings or infractions for this type of matter. Next Episode Previews shown in the episode are not Spoilers according to our Policy. However, if people are inconsiderate in the way they discuss next episode preview content, then perhaps an warning/infraction for Inconsiderate Behaviour could be considered. But for this, obviously, it would depend on what is posted. Like if someone just said "looks like we'll have lots of action next week!", I don't think I could argue that's inconsiderate. But if someone went into great detail of what to expect based on the next episode preview, possibly invoking their source knowledge as part of that speculation, then definitely.

So anyway, all that to say, this seems to me to be in the "grey zone". If someone is constantly pushing the line, then I think it could be reported as inconsiderate, but technically speaking it's not a spoiler.

[Proto]

Alright, got it then. I will have it in mind.

Another question here, what is the policy for false spoilers, and people who knowingly post false information? Are they treated like any other spoiler? Are the treated as a special case?

I ask this because I myself am guilty of this when I've used the technique as a smoke screen when a spoiler/too accurate of a prediction about future events has been posted, and a plot point that otherwise should have been a surprise will become completely expected. However i'm not to sure what is the official stance in this, and whether they are treated the same way as the false spoilers in the Claymore/Naruto/Bleach boards.

[Gooral]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

If you ask me, I think one reason is because spoiler tags have become so commonly-used now that it's really hard to differentiate between the spoilers that you might want to read, and those you probably don't want to read. The other thing, though, is that we also consider spoilers from future source material to be off-topic. If you're talking about an anime, it isn't the right time or place to be like... (...)

This has nothing to do with reality. In Kemono no Souja Erin thread, somehow even after several warnings (spoilers in spoilers and very well described) my post was still deleted. Yeah, it was really hard to notice this was a really heavy spoiler... That's not all however, some "intelligent" moderator deleted the part of my post that was referring to golthin's post and was no spoiler of future events whatsoever. So it looks like I should always make a backup of my post on animesuki or make a double posts, brilliant guys.

It looked sth like this:

Spoiler for 3rd and 4th volume of KnSE:

OK, now I'll present some shocking facts that literally destroyed me after I read them. Oh, how stupid I was to do that. I hate spoilers and yet I read them even though I knew I will regret it. That's how much I love this show. I know about 3rd and 4th volumes contents thanks to one of the users on Polish forum - Enevi.

Spoiler for I don't remember what I wrote here:

Something which wasn't surprising at all

Spoiler for this is one thing you don't want to read, seriously:

Heavy spoiler

[SeijiSensei]

In defense of the moderators, I stopped watching Erin for a while, and when I returned to the thread it was a spoiler minefield. That thread raises some difficult issues about how to handle shows that are being distributed in raws, subs, and on Crunchy, along with the usual problems of handling the original manga or novel sources. Now it may be that Erin is an anomaly because CR picked it up midstream, then preceded to out-pace the sub group. We won't know the answer to this until we've all had more experience with shows that are licensed by Crunchy. For shows that are licensed from the outset by CR, it shouldn't be any different than handling speed-subbed episodes as we've done in the past. In cases where CR jumps into an already ongoing series with pre-existing subs, the situation is more cloudy.

As for novel readers, if you want to talk about the novel, go start a thread in the manga/novels area and do it there. I'd like to see a general ban on the discussion of manga/novel material in all anime threads, since the possibilities for spoilage are just too great. Might I make a humble suggestion to the moderators, though, that the "manga" section be renamed to "manga/novels" to make it clear that both forms of printed material are to be housed there? The description for the forum includes a mention of "light novels," but the forum thread uses simply the word "manga." Perhaps this isn't enough of a beacon to novel readers to carry on their conversations in this locale?

Spoiler for some key events in Erin:

I've even had issues with making avatars based on this show. I had a couple of avatars that touched on Soyon's death but had to be very cautious not to spoil such a critical event in the story. I made an avatar of Erin and Lilan together but chose not to use it in order to avoid spoiling a major story line. My current avatar is another version of the Erin/Lilan connection, but I specifically chose an image which is sufficiently abstract that only someone who knows something about the story would realize what it symbolizes.

[Gooral]

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

(...)
As for novel readers, if you want to talk about the novel, go start a thread in the manga/novels area and do it there. I'd like to see a general ban on the discussion of manga/novel material in all anime threads, since the possibilities for spoilage are just too great. Might I make a humble suggestion to the moderators, though, that the "manga" section be renamed to "manga/novels" to make it clear that both forms of printed material are to be housed there? The description for the forum includes a mention of "light novels," but the forum thread uses simply the word "manga." Perhaps this isn't enough of a beacon to novel readers to carry on their conversations in this locale? (...)

Yeah, starting another thread for a post that's 4 lines long is a great idea. lol
In case you haven't notice KnSE thread isn't exactly most popular one, there are like 5 posts a week. If I created a thread you suggested:
a) No one would know about it (I for one don't visit subforums other than claymore one and threads Gintama and KnSE)
b) Even if someone came there the thread would be dead in less than a week and later definitely no one would know about it
I've known only a small bit of information concerning the novels and decided to share it because I knew there would be people interested in it. Creating a thread for this would be absurd.

So it's a stupid idea. Maybe you like to talk to yourself, I don't. In case you would suggest that I announce this on KnSE thread I would reply: that's also stupid. If it came to this I would create a link to MyAnimeList forum where there are no stupid restrictions because some people are too retarded to read the title of spoilers.

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

(...)

Spoiler for some key events in Erin:

I've even had issues with making avatars based on this show. I had a couple of avatars that touched on Soyon's death but had to be very cautious not to spoil such a critical event in the story. I made an avatar of Erin and Lilan together but chose not to use it in order to avoid spoiling a major story line. My current avatar is another version of the Erin/Lilan connection, but I specifically chose an image which is sufficiently abstract that only someone who knows something about the story would realize what it symbolizes.

(...)

What does it have to do with the post I made? Spoiling avatars are entirely different matter. Contrary to masked posts they're visible like hell (of course you can turn them off but it turns all of them off) and if someone decides to input a face of a hero from 99th episode from series XYZ that in 99th episode lost his eyes then it really is annoying. But with spoilers it's a different thing. And with KnSE is this problem that we don't even know whether there will be a continuation (judging by it's popularity, there won't be) and even if, then when? And I for one (not only me as it turned out) would like to know what happened after it ended and where would be the best place to talk about it if not in the thread concerning this particular anime?
Someone would have to be really retarded to unwillingly click three times on a spoiler button.

Last but not least, personally I hate spoilers BUT KnSE is an exception. Besides Japan novel was published only in France and Germany AFAIK and I can speak German only very little. Talking about how great the novel is and popularizing it increases the chances of publishing it in English or meeting someone that read it.

[relentlessflame]

The Spoiler Policy is clear:

Originally Posted by Spoiler Policy

Any post containing spoilers may be deleted in its entirety and an infraction will be issued to the poster. Repeated violations of this rule will lead to a ban.

You're welcome to read the Spoiler Policy in in its entirety to understand how the rules work. The mods don't always have time to parse through posts to figure out which parts are and aren't spoilers. If you don't care enough to follow the rules, why should the mods care enough to carefully extract only the offending parts? It doesn't matter how many levels deep of spoiler tags you try to hide it in, and doesn't matter that you've somehow rationalized that spoilers are somehow okay for that show. The rules are the same everywhere. As was kindly suggested to you, you're welcome to discuss anything that happens in the novel in the novel's discussion thread; if there is no novel discussion thread, you're welcome to create one. Whether you think it's "stupid" or not, discussing novel spoilers in the anime thread is not an acceptable option. That is reality.