One Piece - Chapter 785 [manga]

[itachi-san314]

I think you're misinterpreting Zoro's words. The only time I think he was serious was when he wanted Luffy to sit back and wait for Usopp to apologize instead of just allowing him back into the crew. Zoro is a man of honor above all else. It wouldn't fit his character to stage a mutiny or go against his own captain who he swore allegiance to. He does try to help Luffy mature from time to time and he pokes fun at him just like the whole crew does to each other in times of jesting, but I don't see any of that (even the Usopp thing) as Zoro wanting to take over or leave the strawhats. it would be too dishonorable to his character.

zoro's character is reminiscent of an old-school samurai. he'd rather die or commit seppuku than lose his honor.

[imza]

I agree, even what Zoro did with Mihawk was to basically swallow his pride and ask him for help so he can be stronger for Luffy. There is absolutely no reason to think Zoro is going to try to fight Luffy now.

[sayde]

Originally Posted by marvelB

Y'know, upon further consideration..... an Awakened Luffy would be the most awesome thing ever. I mean, if he can turn entire battlefields into rubber, then he'd essentially become Pinball Luffy!.

That's the first and only possibility that came to my mind. Glad to see I'm not alone on that.

[bonsobon]

Originally Posted by imza

I agree, even what Zoro did with Mihawk was to basically swallow his pride and ask him for help so he can be stronger for Luffy. There is absolutely no reason to think Zoro is going to try to fight Luffy now.

Indeed. I think those suggesting a future conflict have also forgotten when Zoro faced Kuma on Thriller Bark and offered to exchange his life for Luffy's, saying that his dream meant nothing if he couldn't help his captain fulfill his. Note he also said that Luffy must become the pirate king. So this talk of Zoro fighting Luffy for leadership of the crew is simply not going to happen. Oda is not going to change his main character at this point in the manga, no matter how much Zoro fans might want him to.

[marvelB]

Yeah, count me as one of those who sees no reason for Zoro to suddenly pull an act of mutiny. He has too much respect towards Luffy to pull such a dick move, IMO. Frankly, I think his fight against Kuma should be a prime example of how much loyalty he he displayed towards his captain (even if Luffy wasn't conscious to witness it at the time).


Back to the chapter, someone else brought up the idea of Sabo being the one to hold off Burgess, yes? Yeah, I guess that that will work. At first I figured he could help stop the Birdcage, but keeping outside forces from interrupting Luffy's fight sounds like a good plan, as well!

[ZGoten]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

I think you're misinterpreting Zoro's words. The only time I think he was serious was when he wanted Luffy to sit back and wait for Usopp to apologize instead of just allowing him back into the crew. Zoro is a man of honor above all else. It wouldn't fit his character to stage a mutiny or go against his own captain who he swore allegiance to. He does try to help Luffy mature from time to time and he pokes fun at him just like the whole crew does to each other in times of jesting, but I don't see any of that (even the Usopp thing) as Zoro wanting to take over or leave the strawhats. it would be too dishonorable to his character.

zoro's character is reminiscent of an old-school samurai. he'd rather die or commit seppuku than lose his honor.

Why would it be dishonorable? If he has serious doubts that Luffy is a good enough leader, it would be in everyone's interest to try to step up and take his place, especially since he's already told everybody that he'd do it. In fact, it would be dishonorable to follow a leader you don't believe in. Of course Zoro is incredibly loyal to Luffy, but only as long as he thinks he's worthy of his loyalty. There will be another conflict between the two, whether it's in 100 or 300 chapters.

[marvelB]

Originally Posted by ZGoten

There will be another conflict between the two, whether it's in 100 or 300 chapters.

Oh, there WILL be one, all right..... a gag conflict, that is.


"Zoro, you ate my meat! I'm gonna kick your ass!!!"

"That wasn't me, you dumbass!!!"


*Cue pointless fight that results in the destruction of 2/3 of a city*

[danielevo]

Originally Posted by marvelB

Well, putting aside that I've been arguing for years that Luffy is nowhere near an emperor's level yet, it's not like it makes that much of a difference whether or not he knew about awakening during his training. After all, even before the skip, he was already capable of taking out powerful opponents like two shichibukai before he even learned about haki, was he not? This should be a similar situation.

Oh, and as far as taking on Yonkou is concerned..... that's where the alliances come in, remember.

Yeah, maybe you're right, maybe i expecting too much for Luffy crew after two years.. Two years training is just for developing Haki and some technique after all..

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by ZGoten

Why would it be dishonorable?

It's pretty clearly dishonorable to turn your back on a leader to whom you've sworn allegiance. E.g. Usopp did that exact thing over a disagreement and his abandonment was indeed dishonorable. Luckily for him he's mostly a joke character, so admitting he was wrong and apologizing was enough to erase his mistake.

Like I said, Zoro operates on a samurai code and he's a more mature character than both Usopp and Luffy. For him to swear an allegiance and then dismiss it would be going against that code and his pride. Keep in mind that a samurai's pride is valued above his life (as people have just mentioned, there was the Kuma incident where Zoro was willing to die for his leader, putting his own goals aside.)

[FlareKnight]

I think suggesting a major conflict between Zoro and Luffy happening is silly. Zoro pushes Luffy, but that's what a good second in command should do. Sometimes pushing and sometimes giving advice is a pretty common sense thing, especially when Luffy can be rather silly. Zoro would never want to be the captain of the crew. There's no motivation in that for him. It doesn't fulfill his goal to be the best swordsman in the world nor does it cover his other motivation to support Luffy. You might as well suggest Chopper staging a mutiny, it'd make as much sense.

[ZGoten]

You guys are crazy.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by ZGoten

You guys are crazy.

Yea you're right. After Mingo goes down for good, Zoro will slice up Luffy and they'll be called the 3 Sword Pirates. How did I not see that coming before?...

[P_Dezz]

You know you hear a lot of comparisons between Luffy and Goku but honestly I think Zoro is more like Goku (at least in terms of ambition and outlook). No desire for conquest but only to test his skills, and improve himself.

[J4n1]

Originally Posted by P_Dezz

You know you hear a lot of comparisons between Luffy and Goku but honestly I think Zoro is more like Goku (at least in terms of ambition and outlook). No desire for conquest but only to test his skills, and improve himself.

Zoro has basically 3 driving motivations.
1. Booze,
2. Fights
&
3. Fame as a Swordsman.

Acting as Luffy's 2nd in command (in practice, if not in theory) provides him with all 3 in abundance, becomming a captain just would reduce the time he has for the 3 (plus napping).

And Luffy is his friend, someone he likes, trusts, and, to a certain degree, even respects.
Taking Luffy down and becomming a captain is a loose/loose proposition for Zoro, he gains nothing and looses much.

I can only really see 2 ways they might come to blows outside of just fighting for the fun of it.
1. misunderstanding (like Whiskey Peaks).
2. they face a really powerful sqordsman as opponent and both want to fight him/her (though i suspect Luffy would let Zoro have a go first).

[ri0]

Originally Posted by ZGoten

There was also the moment on Fishman Island, when Luffy knocked out 50.000 people. Zoro said that if his captain wouldn't have been able to do that, he'd have to take over. And on Punk Hazard, Zoro told Luffy to stop fooling around and take things seriously, since this is the New World. Now, Luffy is of course taking his fight with Doflamingo seriously right now, but what I mean to say is that Zoro has been critisizing and pressuring Luffy in the past. He's done it too many times to believe that this won't culminate to a conflict eventually. Luffy's fight with Doflamingo could be one more piece in the puzzle. It might not, though.

I didn't read his comment on Fishmand Island as that harsh. It was more a comical/rude way of complimenting Luffy in my eyes. Furthermore, he only said that they would have to get a new captain, not that he had to take over...

Same on PH... I seriously never had the feeling, that Zoro might want to take over.



On another note: Doflamingo still mocking Luffy after being used as a punching bag for two chapters made me laugh really hard

[J4n1]

Originally Posted by ri0

I didn't read his comment on Fishmand Island as that harsh. It was more a comical/rude way of complimenting Luffy in my eyes. Furthermore, he only said that they would have to get a new captain, not that he had to take over...

Same on PH... I seriously never had the feeling, that Zoro might want to take over.



On another note: Doflamingo still mocking Luffy after being used as a punching bag for two chapters made me laugh really hard

I did not read it as complimenting, but more of a way of belittling the fishmen, stating the feat they were overawed by was somewhere on the level of managing to find your way out of the bathroom.

[Rawrz]

So...uh these devil fruit awakenings taking their power to a whole new level by affecting the surrounding around them...Its gonna be amazing to see :

What Mr 5 (Floor above you turns C4?), Mr 3 (Wax covering the world around him itself?), Foxy (Slow Time?) and Brook (Mass-Resurrection?) can do to environment.

I also believe most logia already fullfilled their awakening by far. Akainu-Aokiji by far, but seems like Crocodile and Caesar also went to that awakening point already by turning the world around into a desert or vacuuming the oxygen itself.

[Belise]

Anyone else wondering why Law is so focused on Doflamingo?

Shouldn't he harbor some aggression for the WG also? Or all the towns/cities that shunned amber lead victims? Those people were his main target until he lost Cora. What happened to all that anger? How did that just transfer over to Doflamingo?

I think Law would have been better off joining the revolutionary army. He would have eventually seen Doflamingo get taken down and attacking/eroding the WG's influence would effectively combat a portion of the baseless prejudices that caused him to loose his family right?

Just seemed weird to me as I was thinking of what Law's gonna do after this arc, since he admitted taking down a yonko wasn't his primary agenda.

[ArabianLuffy]

Originally Posted by Belise

Just seemed weird to me as I was thinking of what Law's gonna do after this arc, since he admitted taking down a yonko wasn't his primary agenda.

He should stick to the alliance since taking down Yonkous plan is seemingly on motion. Kidd and others plan the same too. It's just who's first. Mom or Kaidou. And by whom? Kidd or Luffy.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Rawrz

I also believe most logia already fullfilled their awakening by far. Akainu-Aokiji by far, but seems like Crocodile and Caesar also went to that awakening point already by turning the world around into a desert or vacuuming the oxygen itself.

I highly doubt that all logia users will achieve this level of Awakening or that most have done so already. I'm sure it's reserved for only the top tier DF users. It's also not specific to logia since Mingo is doing it and he's a paramecia user.

I also don't think Crocodile turned Alabasta into a desert. It was already a desert right? Caesar and Law may have it working to an extent though since they are manipulating their environments. There are probably others too like Eniel. I'm not 100% clear what the criteria is for Awakening yet though.

Originally Posted by ArabianLuffy

He should stick to the alliance since taking down Yonkous plan is seemingly on motion. Kidd and others plan the same too. It's just who's first. Mom or Kaidou. And by whom? Kidd or Luffy.

Luffy and Law may not have to do anything to fight Emperors. It may happen that Kaidou or Big Mom comes to them since they've made enemies out of both of them. Luffy messed with Big Mom professionally and personally. And Luffy and Law are responsible for taking down most of Kaidou's black market. I doubt either Emperor will let those transgressions stand.