(L+CR) Nobunaga: The Fool

[Wild Goose]

I have to say, Caesar has style.

THough I had to lol at him keeping the mask because it's a chick magnet.

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

THough I had to lol at him keeping the mask because it's a chick magnet.

That made me actually laugh so much, especially with Mitsu's "GAH!" reaction. XDDD

Originally Posted by karice67

Also, what is the difference between an upright and a 'reversed' card?

I wonder about that, too. Years ago there was a guy who did some readings for me and explained the cards and whatnot, but it's long slipped my mind...

Originally Posted by karice67

I'm actually trying to bury my memory of the last somewhat 'hot-blooded' Nakamura character I saw/heard, but I do agree that he's far better than Miyano in that respect. The latter is more fun when his character is actually nuts. But I am not particularly impressed with Nobunaga as a character in the first place, so part of my ambivalence with his performance in this series probably comes from that.

For me it's the other way around: true, this might just be the blandest Nobunaga I've ever seen (which is such a pity because there's so much potential in an "ODA NOBUNAGA + MECHA" setting ), but he could've benefited from a more charismatic voice and better acting. :/ I think Miyano is a perfectly good seiyuu when he gets roles that fit him, but he's woefully miscast in this show. (In general I find him unconvincing in roles where he speaks lower than his normal speaking voice, it's just so obviously fake.)

Originally Posted by karice67

Apparently it was because he got a lot of flak for his singing, though I've never been able to verify that.

Huh... I've never seen that either. Shame if it's true, obviously he wasn't the best ever, but it's not like he was particularly horrible.

Originally Posted by karice67

Poor Sakku, his roles over the last few years seem to draw more ridicule than not, huh? Is Mitsu ever going to live any of this down?

Not if I have any say in it. I mean, it's not the seiyuu's fault, really, he does what he can and he suffers beautifully, but... oh lol, Mitsu.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

You know, somehow it strikes me that this show feels similar to Macross 7 (Kawamori’s other work in the past) in that the lead male (Nekki Basara/Oda Nobunaga) is a bland-but-supposed-to-be-awesome near-immovable kinda character (save for some quirks). In this case, I think Basara has the edge since his music and singing pretty much rocks and adds a lot of entertainment value for each episode of Macross 7, while Nobu can only fights, shouts and shoots arrows (piloting a giant robot doesn’t count since both of them can do it. Basara can even do it while playing his guitar ). The MC also loved by two notable females: one is the little girl who has set her sight at the MC first (Mylene/Himiko) and the other is a girl from a different world (Syvil/Jeanne) who is charmed by the MC through a certain plot device (Anima-Spiritia Singing/Savior-King Prophecy). The main antagonist of the show (Gepelnitch/King Arthur) is also pretty bland in which we mostly see him in one particular place barking orders to his underlings (Protodeviln/Knights of Round Table) to take some actions while he himself is awaiting for the good moment to strike. Between the bland MC and his archenemy is a slew of supporting characters (Gamlin, Max, Milia, etc/Mitsu, Caesar, Ichi, etc) with their own stories which are more interesting and basically one element that saves the show from becoming a total disaster.

Could it be that Kawamori is nostalgic of Macross 7 and decided to somehow recreate it with The Fool?

[Pong]

Say, does anyone else finds it mighty convenient that just as Jeanne admits to her feelings it is revealed that Himiko is dying? IT's almost as if they wanted to get rid of the third wheel.

[Destined_Fate]

I guess it's for more angst since now she's going to feel guilty over it and stuff.

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by Pong

Say, does anyone else finds it mighty convenient that just as Jeanne admits to her feelings it is revealed that Himiko is dying? IT's almost as if they wanted to get rid of the third wheel.

I think it's not "almost as if" it's exactly that. A pretty crude solution, but the main couple (whether they actually get together or not) has been set as Nobu and Jeanne from ep 1.

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

You know, somehow it strikes me that this show feels similar to Macross 7 (Kawamori’s other work in the past) in that the lead male (Nekki Basara/Oda Nobunaga) is a bland-but-supposed-to-be-awesome near-immovable kinda character (save for some quirks). In this case, I think Basara has the edge since his music and singing pretty much rocks and adds a lot of entertainment value for each episode of Macross 7, while Nobu can only fights, shouts and shoots arrows (piloting a giant robot doesn’t count since both of them can do it. Basara can even do it while playing his guitar ). The MC also loved by two notable females: one is the little girl who has set her sight at the MC first (Mylene/Himiko) and the other is a girl from a different world (Syvil/Jeanne) who is charmed by the MC through a certain plot device (Anima-Spiritia Singing/Savior-King Prophecy). The main antagonist of the show (Gepelnitch/King Arthur) is also pretty bland in which we mostly see him in one particular place barking orders to his underlings (Protodeviln/Knights of Round Table) to take some actions while he himself is awaiting for the good moment to strike. Between the bland MC and his archenemy is a slew of supporting characters (Gamlin, Max, Milia, etc/Mitsu, Caesar, Ichi, etc) with their own stories which are more interesting and basically one element that saves the show from becoming a total disaster.

Could it be that Kawamori is nostalgic of Macross 7 and decided to somehow recreate it with The Fool?

I'm not entirely convinced about the parallels, but Nobu would be a lot more interesting and fun if he ran around shouting "LISTEN TO MY MUSIC" and playing guitar at people. True, Basara is not the most exciting main character ever, but he's fun (even though I always rooted for Gamlin).

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

I'm not entirely convinced about the parallels, but Nobu would be a lot more interesting and fun if he ran around shouting "LISTEN TO MY MUSIC" and playing guitar at people.

There are some more minor parallels tbh, but I won’t bother mentioning them. Still, there’s one more notable parallel of Macross 7 & The Fool that I just can’t ignore: The MC pays (a lot) more attention to the “girl from another world”-love interest (Syvil/Jeanne) than the “little girl”-love interest (Mylene/Himiko) almost throughout the show. Poor little girls....

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

True, Basara is not the most exciting main character ever, but he's fun (even though I always rooted for Gamlin).

Spoiler for Macross 7 OT & spoilers:

Yeah, of course some girls will root for the nice hunk pilot who genuinely love the girl and tries so hard to be the perfect man for her than the guy who seem to have brick for brain and almost never paid any attention to said girl (in terms of love) for the entire show. Heck, I’m rooting for Gamlin too for Mylene (this coming from someone who thinks Basara is awesomely eccentric). Let Basara be with Syvil for god's sake. Those two have been obsessing over each other since the day they first met and kissed and stayed like that for almost the rest of the show. Many people said that it was a love triangle between Basara-Mylene-Gamlin but I only see a straight line: Gamlin -> Mylene -> Basara (-> Space Whales ). The triangle is more apt for Basara-Syvil-Gigil than anything.

[zztop]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

Also, what is the difference between an upright and a 'reversed' card?
I wonder about that, too. Years ago there was a guy who did some readings for me and explained the cards and whatnot, but it's long slipped my mind...

Upright cards usually carry positive meanings, reversed card are negative meanings.
If the upright is negative, then reversed is positive.

[jfs90]

Well I found out something interesting... caesars mecha is named quo vadis, which is latin for ' where are u going' I always found that weird but now I realize it refers to a famous novel and film called quo vadis

There are too many parallels between the story of the novel and film and caesars story to be a coincidence

Quo vadis is about a powerful Roman general Marcus (Caesar) who one day saw a princess of a Barbarian tribe Lygia, who lives in rome as a hostage (Ichihime,also the west consider the east people barbarians as cesare said last ep), he fell in love with her at first sight and instantly desires to possees her, so he asks emperor Nero to give her to him as a reward for his services, and so he married her, naturally, she was resentful and unhappy at first but quickly fell in love with him, then lots of stuff happen, but they did get a happy ending together

Im pretty sure caesars story with ichi is inspired from this book/movie, but as for how the anime ends I still cant see ichi surviving as they will probably kill her to make mitsu despair more and go to honnoji mode, but im keeping some hope for a happy end lol

[bakato]

Originally Posted by jfs90

Well I found out something interesting... caesars mecha is named quo vadis, which is latin for ' where are u going' I always found that weird but now I realize it refers to a famous novel and film called quo vadis

There are too many parallels between the story of the novel and film and caesars story to be a coincidence

Quo vadis is about a powerful Roman general Marcus (Caesar) who one day saw a princess of a Barbarian tribe Lygia, who lives in rome as a hostage (Ichihime,also the west consider the east people barbarians as cesare said last ep), he fell in love with her at first sight and instantly desires to possees her, so he asks emperor Nero to give her to him as a reward for his services, and so he married her, naturally, she was resentful and unhappy at first but quickly fell in love with him, then lots of stuff happen, but they did get a happy ending together

Im pretty sure caesars story with ichi is inspired from this book/movie, but as for how the anime ends I still cant see ichi surviving as they will probably kill her to make mitsu despair more and go to honnoji mode, but im keeping some hope for a happy end lol

Well, I guess I'm the princess. I want to hate Caesar so much, but he won't let me.

[LostSome]

Wait, WHAT ?

Spoiler for 18:

Did Alexander just killed Hideyoshi ?!

[AntonKutovoi]

So... Illegitimate child of Dio Brando and Reinhard von Lohengramm owned the entire planet and, possibly, killed Hideyoshi. Not bad.

Also,
"Mitsuhide, you're back, I'm so glad"
"Ichihime-sama!"
"Where's Caesar, BTW?"

[jfs90]

Lol mitsu was about to hug ichi until she mentioned caesar.. poor mitsu cant even one up caesar when hes not around...

so chandragupta started the episode like a badass evil villain but died 2 mins later... I had to laugh at that... and seems like kenshin was captured?

Alexander was waaay too OP lol poor saru he may survive but his mecha sure wont...

Highlight of the episode for me was ofc ichi worrying about caesar lol I love how she looked sad when she found out that he was still in the west star...

damn caesar is a ladykiller... how did he get a girl whose father and countrys citizens he killed to worry about him after knowing him for ONE day? Or maybe she just wants more chocolate cake...

massive betrayal flag for mitsu, in the preview as well...

Guessing whatever caesar does in the west will be important in helping nobu and co... cant see how though, hes stuck there with cesare and machiavelli (maybe he will seduce machiavelli?)

[LostSome]

So Hideyoshi is not dead yet.

Originally Posted by jfs90

Lol mitsu was about to hug ichi until she mentioned caesar.. poor mitsu cant even one up caesar when hes not around...

Highlight of the episode for me was ofc ichi worrying about caesar lol I love how she looked sad when she found out that he was still in the west star...

damn caesar is a ladykiller... how did he get a girl whose father and countrys citizens he killed to worry about him after knowing him for ONE day? Or maybe she just wants more chocolate cake...

Guessing whatever caesar does in the west will be important in helping nobu and co... cant see how though, hes stuck there with cesare and machiavelli (maybe he will seduce machiavelli?)

Caesar definitely has won Ichihime over.

Doing something important ? Really ?
I thought Mitsu was lying to Ichi because he just left Caesar to die on the West.

[jfs90]

Originally Posted by LostSome

So Hideyoshi is not dead yet.



Caesar definitely has won Ichihime over.

Doing something important ? Really ?
I thought Mitsu was lying to Ichi because he just left Caesar to die on the West.

she still has affections for mitsu, but she definitely has grown to care about caesar too, confirming a proper love triangle, I didnt think she has feelings for caesar yet until she made a sadface when she heard he remained in the west

now we just need mitsu to go honnoji mode (confirmed in his 'destroyer king' line this ep) and for ichi to find out he killed nobukatsu

[Wandering Soul]

Even after Mistu comes to rescue her Ichime first asks him what happened to Caesar. I think it's safe to say that Ichime is definitely growing attached to Caesar. We all know any chance Mitsu has will disappear the second Ichime finds out that he killed her brother. Also Hideyoshi might be dead. If he does die I am gonna miss him.

[kuromitsu]

1) ALEXANDEEEERRRRR~!!!

2) HIDEYOSHIIIIIII~!!!

3) KENSHIIIIINNN~!!

Oh man. Nakai Kazuya came, saw and wiped the floor with basically everyone. Seriously, when, with only a few lines, his character alone develops more strength of presence than the main character... (Listen and learn, Miyano Mamoru.)

Hideyoshi, though. Poor Hideyoshi! I hope he won't die, he CAN'T die! He still needs more screentime, anyway.

Kenshin, OH KENSHIN. I really hope we'll see more of him in the future because he's awesome. As much as Nobunaga is one of the blandest Nobunagas I've seen, Kenshin is one of the most fun Uesugi Kenshin incarnations.

And Nobunaga is just so weak and ineffectual, especially with these fun and charismatic characters around. He's not worthy of that cool mecha. Besides, every time he gets into it and acts big something horrible happens... And poor Jeanne kind of sucks at protecting, too. She managed to protect someone only once, ever since then every time she tries to protect someone bad things happen. (I did like how Alexander swatted her mech away like a fly. Oh poor Jeanne.)

Originally Posted by AntonKutovoi

Illegitimate child of Dio Brando and Reinhard von Lohengramm

Oh my god, now I can't unsee this.

Originally Posted by AntonKutovoi

Also,
"Mitsuhide, you're back, I'm so glad"
"Ichihime-sama!"
"Where's Caesar, BTW?"

*dramatic wind*
"(DAMN YOU CAESAR, DAMN YOU AND YOUR STUPID GOOD LOOKS AND YOUR STUPID MASK AND YOUR STUPID CHOCOLATE CAKES)"

Where is Caesar, anyway? Has he defected back to the west, or is he waiting for the best moment to sweep in and save the day? His original plan (before Ichi happened) was to use Nobunaga to get rid of Alexander, but clearly it's not working...

And oh no, no no, THIS is going to lead to the Honnouji incident? Damn, now I'm disappointed. :/ I wanted Mitsu succumbing to darkness, not playing hero, dammit. :/

[jfs90]

Originally Posted by the one above all

Even after Mistu comes to rescue her Ichime first asks him what happened to Caesar. I think it's safe to say that Ichime is definitely growing attached to Caesar. We all know any chance Mitsu has will disappear the second Ichime finds out that he killed her brother. Also Hideyoshi might be dead. If he does die I am gonna miss him.

Some people were saying ichi actually knew mitsu killed her bro and let it happen, but im not sure too lazy to rewatch the ep...

I think the tipping point would be when mitsu goes into honnoji mode though...

that said I can understand ichi a little... I mean this handsome guy who is strong and has power and rank sacrifices everything for you and bakrs you cake... most girls would go soft for him

Poor ichi was weeping at the end of the episode =( seems about a good time for a literal knight in shining white mecha armor to swoop in and save the day

@kuromitsu mitsu can still go honnoji mode, accidentally kills ichi in the process and succumb to darkness

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by jfs90

Some people were saying ichi actually knew mitsu killed her bro and let it happen, but im not sure too lazy to rewatch the ep...

No, it was Nobuyuki who recognized Mitsu and let it happen. I don't think Ichi knows any more than Nobunaga does.

Originally Posted by jfs90

Poor ichi was weeping at the end of the episode =( seems about a good time for a literal knight in shining white mecha armor to swoop in and save the day

Well, he did promise Ichi that he would protect the Oda (otherwise Ichi would kill him)... and I suppose he and Nobu together could maybe defeat Alexander. Maybe. But that would be too simple.

Originally Posted by jfs90

@kuromitsu mitsu can still go honnoji mode, accidentally kills ichi in the process and succumb to darkness

Well, from this episode it seems he had a revelation that if Nobu continues like this he will destroy the planet, so he decides to kill Nobu before that happens... but no, this is totally not what I expected and not what I want to happen. :/ They'd been teasing with darkness so far, but this way it'll be some sort of noble sacrifice... bah.

(Mitsuhide is totally the main character of this show, isn't he. Nobunaga barely has any presence, same with Jeanne, and all main storylines revolve around Mitsu...)

[jfs90]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

No, it was Nobuyuki who recognized Mitsu and let it happen. I don't think Ichi knows any more than Nobunaga does.


Well, he did promise Ichi that he would protect the Oda (otherwise Ichi would kill him)... and I suppose he and Nobu together could maybe defeat Alexander. Maybe. But that would be too simple.


Well, from this episode it seems he had a revelation that if Nobu continues like this he would destroy the planet, so he decides to kill Nobu before that happens... but no, this is totally not what I expected and not what I want to happen. :/ They'd been teasing with darkness so far, but this way it'll be some sort of noble sacrifice... bah.

(Mitsuhide is totally the main character of this show, isn't he. Nobunaga barely has any presence, same with Jeanne, and all main storylines revolve around Mitsu...)

The way alexander was OP this ep makes me doubt if nobu and caesar together can beat him... he totally owned kenshin after all...

Caesar was the big surprise for me... everyone expected him to be the 'first boss' character yet now he is even in the new ending artwork and has character song..

if mitsu is the main character why do the writers shit on him so much... poor guy cant catch a break, and am I mean for hoping him to suffer alot more? He was ok in this ep but needs to quickly go into despair emo mode again

Well clearly kenshin will be the one to have a final battle with alexander, with the oath and all... I doubt ichi will ever want to kill caesar anymore, she obviously has a soft for him now