Macross Frontier - Episode 19 Discussion / Poll

[Seifall]

Originally Posted by mike_s_6

Seemingly in your opinion, Ranka will have a high chance to catch up against GAR SHERYL!!!

Well I was talking about the worst pix! !

Originally Posted by mike_s_6

Sheryl drawn well against Ranka drawn well ?

I'm not that suicidal !

Originally Posted by mike_s_6

Sheryl drawn badly against Ranka looking like a dog/bursting balloon, nah, I'll take Sheryl too

<< You're a girl aren't you ? You know what I'm talking about.... a guy will make that expression and will take nanase insteed !! ( no offense guys)!
( Im talking about if the character was drawn constantly like that= ! ^-^

Originally Posted by mike_s_6

(at least man-Sheryl it doesn't make me feel worse than the Leon x Cathy scene):P

Nah! what's with Leonx Cathy scene ? pervert OK but compared to sheryl-kun Nah! You're too much of a hardcore fan !

But hey! it might be good to try using worst pix for the poll I bet you you will know what's the real word of two timing !!

[Haesslich]

Originally Posted by Lostdreams

I think that amv means a lot. I never saw Alto hold Ranka in his arms as they go flying through the sunset. That scene between Alto and Sheryl was epic.

Alto's never had a chance to hold Ranka in his arms - the two times that Sheryl got into Alto's arms were when she a) got knocked off the podium by Alto, and b) when she jumped off the roof of the Academy like an idiot and fell out of the unlocked Ex-Gear. Ranka and Alto DID share a flight through Gallia 4's atmosphere and into the sunset as Sheryl, sick as a dog, had to watch them depart... and the two of them shared a crash, then an attempt at rescue (again).

The scene may have been romantic, but that doesn't mean Alto felt that way; we know damned little about his feelings for either girl at the moment, beyond the 'I have to protect them... sometimes from themselves' reactions he's had to both Sheryl and Ranka. As I said before, the reason an AMV isn't valid is because you can take any scene out of context and edit it so it looks like something it's not. May I recommend "Top Gun, Recut" as an example of such? It turns an action film with Tom Cruise and Kelly McGillis as the romantic pairing into a proto-Brokeback Mountain with a tense romantic relationship between Maverick and Iceman, with Goose being involved in the triangle.

[Seifall]

Originally Posted by BuniiChan

Well... if Sheryl looks like a man, it's a good thing. Why you ask? Because Alto looks like a girl. So there you have it, one is a guy and the other is a girl. Not dog x human. <3

Enough.....Spare me please !

[Marina Ismail]

Well... you do know Alto didn't have to go after Sheryl when she jumped off the roof, Mik could have done it as well. The fact that Alto made it his duty (I guess I shouldn't use this word?) to be the one to catch her says a lot about their relationship. Any Sheryl fans has a Sheryl avatar I can use? I must join this revolution and support zee queeennnn~~

[Haesslich]

Originally Posted by BuniiChan

Well... you do know Alto didn't have to go after Sheryl when she jumped off the roof, Mik could have done it as well. The fact that Alto made it his duty (I guess I shouldn't use this word?) to be the one to catch her says a lot about their relationship. Any Sheryl fans has a Sheryl avatar I can use? I must join this revolution and support zee queeennnn~~

Alto didn't have to go after Ranka either in Episode 10 - which he did. Alto seems to take his duty very seriously, especially since he HAS been inducted into Sheryl's posse at her request. Whether this leads to romance is yet to be decided, since we've yet to see signs that Alto's realized he's tripped the Sheryl Relationship Flag... much less Ranka's, even if she's been more outwardly affectionate than the at times very arrogant Sheryl.

I guess that's what happens when you grow up as a girl...

[Marina Ismail]

Originally Posted by Haesslich

Alto didn't have to go after Ranka either in Episode 10 - which he did. Alto seems to take his duty very seriously, especially since he HAS been inducted into Sheryl's posse at her request. Whether this leads to romance is yet to be decided, since we've yet to see signs that Alto's realized he's tripped the Sheryl Relationship Flag... much less Ranka's, even if she's been more outwardly affectionate than the at times very arrogant Sheryl.

I guess that's what happens when you grow up as a girl...

I'm a girl and I never was like Ranka, period. Nor was I ever like Sheryl as well. It's just I don't care about Ranka, anything to do with Ranka, anything about Ranka. I tried to like her but she annoys me too much. She seriously makes me want to /wrist. So when ever an ep is devoted to Ranka I just skip that ep till zee Diamond is back in the story.

I don't know who is going to end up with who in the end, so I'll never make an assumption or throw it back in anyone else's face. I'm a Sheryl fan (since day 1), my dislike for Ranka has nothing to do with her relationship with Alto, it's just her character that drives me crazy. It almost makes me feel sick that someone can be so obsessed with another person when they don't even know how that person feels about them! =/

Btw, to the person that said Ranka doesn't know about Sheryl's illness, it's not like she cares about Sheryl anyways. Even when Sheryl was supporting her on the sideline she didn't seem to care.

[Westlo]

Alto only helped out Sheryl for the span of two episodes so I don't know why you're so fixated on that point. It was Alto's choice to go to Gallia IV with Sheryl and everything before episode 9 and after 11 had nothing to do with Alto being hired by Sheryl. *thinks of how I can insert a bball analogy for ackem...* It's like you're playing Team USA and focusing on Kobe and ignoring that Wade and Lebron are killing you.

[mike_s_6]

Originally Posted by Seifall

Nah! what's with Leonx Cathy scene ? pervert OK but compared to sheryl-kun Nah! You're too much of a hardcore fan !

Yes I'm so hardcore, f*** you Ranka!!!!!!!!! Die Ranka!!!!! Die Dog-ears girl!!!! You lolicon fantasy feeder!!!!

j/k


I think we're not even on the same page, I didn't understand your reply to my post Sheryl has always had that man-look about her - she has thick eyebrows and looks more masculine when she has a stern look. I have no doubts that man-Sheryl will win the hearts of both men and women despite her looks since she's such an interesting character. Again, she was hotter in the first few episodes, but she only won the hearts of many when we got to see what she's really like. Even Klan Klan can have the man-look about her, and look, she's also popular.

I didn't think that the LeonxCathy scene was perverted since they are supposed to be lovers right? Isn't that how it was depicted within the animation? I think the terrible thing about the scene is only that she looks kinda like Misa, and that guy has what people call "foo-foo" hair (read: ugly!). Given that I don't think she looks like Misa and I think his hair is terrible but he has a right to do that to his lover (especially since she seems to like it too), I didn't find it disgusting at all.

But that Ranka screen shot, omg what is wrong with the quality of this animation (or did they intend to make her look like an over-eager bursting balloon with dog-ears? Can't be right?)?!

[Lostdreams]

Originally Posted by Westlo

Alto only helped out Sheryl for the span of two episodes so I don't know why you're so fixated on that point. It was Alto's choice to go to Gallia IV with Sheryl and everything before episode 9 and after 11 had nothing to do with Alto being hired by Sheryl. *thinks of how I can insert a bball analogy for ackem...* It's like you're playing Team USA and focusing on Kobe and ignoring that Wade and Lebron are killing you.

I got a bball analogy. Ranka will get 3rd place in Alto's heart behind Sheryl and his mom.

[aneeshadc]

Originally Posted by Westlo

That's why I'm saying that they way they have depicted Ranka compared to Sheryl in the last few episodes should make the outcome of the triangle rather clear. I'm half expecting Sheryl to push Alto to Ranka next episode since Ranka's intrusion gives her a chance to back out of doing something she didn't want to do in the first place. Of course this does depend on what Sheryl said to Alto before the "Alto-kun, Alto-kun, Alto-kun, Alto-kun, No way!" scene.

Ranka fans for some reason seem to think this episode was to try and gain sympathy for Ranka and that Sheryl was cast in the "bad" role, I honestly have no fucking idea what show they are watching at this point.

thats wat I'm thinking too.. I believe Sheryl will tell alto that ranka obviously misunderstood the scene b/w them and that he shud go after her & make it clear to ranka that there is nothing b/w them- they're just friends & so on.......i actually hav the whole scene kinda played out in my mind ........but yeah that still depends on what sheryl was originally saying to alto b4 Puppy ranka sprang into the scene.
Though honestly frustated as i was to see ranka I was happy she interrupted them on another note. It really gave me hope cos it meant that there was bound to be an eventual winning sheryl/alto scene much later after dealing with the ranka situation.rte?......so I act breathed a little easier after they were interrupted.
pple really tend to blow things out of proportion..... 3 things really annoyed me-
>One was Who was REALLY shown as sympathetic in the ep? Mayb both but Sheryl more so
> alto seeing his mom in Sheryl for a split sec- Its hilarious that they're act even considering alto equating SHERYL as his mom... I mean come on.. SHERYL!!!
>Sheryl/Alto conversation being a disappointmentment, expecting a reunion,Alto being less concerned...blah blah------ I dont see it that way, they were both perfectly in character. It was obvious once sheryl had time to think things, the 1st thing she wud do wud be to push him away Not run into his arms.
She was vulnerable and sick in the rain & its perfectly natural to hallucinate abt the guy u luv cumin to u when ur crying. Its an instinctive reaction. Even in her hallucinating state she WAS embarrassed to have Alto see her vulnerable cos she lifts her fingers to her face, half covering it.
Alto otoh was clearly frustated and pained by her actions. He doesnt know why she is saying the things she is. He has always respected her & valued her insights shud b quite clear to nyne who is watching the eppy. BOO to all those who said he doesnt think highly of her. The fact that he doesnt know and she wont tell IS irking him to the core.
He also knows she is stubborn so he decides to show her through actions instead ( thogh a kiss might have also jolted her out of her stubbornness... sigh). HE asks her to come , really love hw emotionally charged that scene is, his voice, his eye trembling as he watches her turned back, He is hurt by her actions is very visible to me.
Kay i think m done......longest post yet... Oh and Kudos to you for predicting that alto will throw that destiny thingy rte back at her.
Hav'nt scene the subs yet so M not sure if I've intrepreted the scenes correctly but I hope m not too far out

[Traece]

Originally Posted by Lostdreams

I got a bball analogy. Ranka will get 3rd place in Alto's heart behind Sheryl and his mom.

Ohhh-ho... ULTRA-BURN. Total SMACKDOWN. Agreed, the Vajra woman gets what she deserves! Yes, I can use that as yet another reason to despise Ranka, despite the fact that the only thing her hair can't do is FLY. It's already a living creature with wings.

Anyhow, I don't have a lot to say about this episode considering it's so well spelled out that a child could predict future outcomes from it. I tell you what though, I've never been more happy than seeing Ranka walk in on a little huggy x huggy with Alto x Sheryl. The shocked look on her face to see her hopes and dreams of her undying love for Alto having been crushed by an ultra-hot ex-pop idol.

As far as Sheryl being drawn poorly... Yeah, even I have noticed it, but the scene of her in this episode was the only time I felt she looked manly. However, her wonderful hair serves to offset those thoughts pretty well. But yeah, the artists for Macross Frontier need to work on their abilities, I've had friends who could probably draw Sheryl with half the skill and tact, but still make her look like a smoking hot woman.

Yeesh...

[Seifall]

[QUOTE=mike_s_6;1810257]Yes I'm so hardcore, f*** you Ranka!!!!!!!!! Die Ranka!!!!! Die Dog-ears girl!!!! You lolicon fantasy feeder!!!!

j/k

Originally Posted by mike_s_6

I think we're not even on the same page, I didn't understand your reply to my post Sheryl has always had that man-look about her - she has thick eyebrows and looks more masculine when she has a stern look. I have no doubts that man-Sheryl will win the hearts of both men and women despite her looks since she's such an interesting character. Again, she was hotter in the first few episodes, but she only won the hearts of many when we got to see what she's really like. Even Klan Klan can have the man-look about her, and look, she's also popular.

Right your opinion, but I can't help myself to doubt. I don't know that much interesting female character with a masculine face who are popular. Really I don't see none ( Kallen in code Geass does gives this masculine aura but not that much, you can tell she's a girl not only because of her hair (unlike sheryl man pix)..Naruto who transforms in female maybe) ...
Klan can have a man look , but her female one take the advantage due to her well built body

Originally Posted by mike_s_6

I didn't think that the LeonxCathy scene was perverted since they are supposed to be lovers right? Isn't that how it was depicted within the animation? I think the terrible thing about the scene is only that she looks kinda like Misa, and that guy has what people call "foo-foo" hair (read: ugly!). Given that I don't think she looks like Misa and I think his hair is terrible but he has a right to do that to his lover (especially since she seems to like it too), I didn't find it disgusting at all.

Perveted when i was talking about how he said " you can call me Leon since we aren't in duty anymore" and her " OW Leon "... with his look like i will eat you on my desk
she doesn't look like Misa.... Cathy is better no ?
He reminds me of the count in the hign noble family of Braunschweig ... Like if he was a part of a sect, or a cultist from LOGH .... But I agree very not in 2059 period

Originally Posted by mike_s_6

But that Ranka screen shot, omg what is wrong with the quality of this animation (or did they intend to make her look like an over-eager bursting balloon with dog-ears? Can't be right?)?!

I think that was intended, they can't paint her in this bad state like that!
If not, how do you explain how they made her look like on the stairs before she saw Alto?
When you think about it we don't often see her on light outfit like sheryl but when we see it, she is thin She is ,not so fine in this pix ..but after episode 19/20 it will change.Still drawnlike a not so mature girl so they made her show this part of her behaviour with faces like that.
I'm waiting for a big change now, I hope they will mahe her long hair OK this is unlikely to happen but her hair like Leon will not for sure win the best hairstyle prize.
Sheryl is less hot, Alto more woman like with klan too , Michel more romantic ? , Nanase ....I don't get her character who i think will surprise us because now..., so Ranka can not stay like that at least if they don't intend to developp a part of her hair or want to make her wince like that ...more GOOD outfit for her like sheryl in episode 1 ,7,...... !!
by the way I don't like sheryl's hat or her blue costume(She had this at the beginning too but changed a lot)... she isn't becoming a gypsy right ????

[Haesslich]

Originally Posted by BuniiChan

I'm a girl and I never was like Ranka, period. Nor was I ever like Sheryl as well. It's just I don't care about Ranka, anything to do with Ranka, anything about Ranka. I tried to like her but she annoys me too much. She seriously makes me want to /wrist. So when ever an ep is devoted to Ranka I just skip that ep till zee Diamond is back in the story.

I don't know who is going to end up with who in the end, so I'll never make an assumption or throw it back in anyone else's face. I'm a Sheryl fan (since day 1), my dislike for Ranka has nothing to do with her relationship with Alto, it's just her character that drives me crazy. It almost makes me feel sick that someone can be so obsessed with another person when they don't even know how that person feels about them! =/

Btw, to the person that said Ranka doesn't know about Sheryl's illness, it's not like she cares about Sheryl anyways. Even when Sheryl was supporting her on the sideline she didn't seem to care.

I'm saying that Alto's apparently relationship-impaired and has a blindness towards women, perhaps because he grew up playing women on stage and yet somehow missed the whole 'here's how you tell the other gender likes you' lessons that people pick up through junior high and high school. He's rebuffed other women before, per the comments the girls made in Episode 5, and gets visibly angry when someone like Luca comments on the whole 'you should be more like Mikhail-senpai (and pick up girls)' comment back in the TV broadcast version of Episode 1.

And Ranka is likely to care about her idol being ill - the main issue is that she's yet to grow up, which means she tends to react or sit back passively rather than be proactive and do things.... or to look at them for that matter, else she wouldn't have been in this situation that she's in as of Episode 19, where she's thinking about Alto and thinking she likes him... but hasn't done anything to follow through with those feelings. Ozma spoiled her too much as a kid, and now she's rather immature due to this - and is a lot easier to manipulate as a result.

I do wonder... if Kawamori trolls everyone by breaking the expected pattern (aka: people are starting to say that Alto x Sheryl are THE pairing), will all of you suddenly hate Macross Frontier, or jump off bridges? I really HATE shippers - especially once they start calling the other person everything but Satan incarnate. For heaven's sake, Sheryl has Vajra AIDS - and people aren't calling her a slut while Ranka's being called such because someone painted her half-naked (and she didn't even have to pose for the picture)... while Ranka-shippers are calling Sheryl a whore because she wears less than Britney Spears on-stage and acts imperiously at times.

[Seifall]

Originally Posted by Lostdreams

I got a bball analogy. Ranka will get 3rd place in Alto's heart behind Sheryl and his mom.

That's why you're saying now....

Originally Posted by Lostdreams

Spoiler for Spoiler:

Those words of love couldn't be saved. So one more time I want an answer. It's obvious Sheryl wants an answer. In simple terms I think it means choose between me or her. Those words of love couldn't be saved could possibly mean that probably Alto's words of love weren't from his heart. It's a classic tale of I'm with you but I love someone else. Idk, that's what I think

But that's what you were saying before....


You're talking about Northern Cross ... What made you/How can you change just your mind so fastly ?

[nanatsusaya]

For those who have doubt about Sheryl-kun:



He's just as pretty if not more than Alto, and probably would make a better male lead than hime too IMO

[Mughi]

Originally Posted by mike_s_6

... Sheryl has always had that man-look about her - she has thick eyebrows and looks more masculine when she has a stern look. I have no doubts that man-Sheryl will win the hearts of both men and women despite her looks since she's such an interesting character.

But that Ranka screen shot, omg what is wrong with the quality of this animation (or did they intend to make her look like an over-eager bursting balloon with dog-ears? Can't be right?)?!

Not picking you outta the crowd at all Mike, you just put two things into the same post conveniently... Thanks.

Everyone, we're dealing with animation... DUH! Some artists are better than others, so our characters WILL look "off model" from time to time... Even Disney characters have this problem.

Remember SDF Macross had some really unbelievably horrible art in certain episodes... seemed like every 3rd or 4th eps was done by animators with no talent at all... Go re-watch the scene where Miriya and Max have their knife fight in the park, ending with them falling into each other's arms. We were well invested in the characters by that time, so it plays quite emotionally... but the animation SUCKED! BIG, HARD, RAW, NASTY, SUCKING animation. SO far off model that Max looked like a midget and Miriya like a mannequin. And there were endless examples that were even worse! But it was an awesome series, and still plays well all these years later because the ideas and characterizations made you care.... Well they made ME care anyway...

Thank goodness Macross Frontier hasn't suffered from any shows as poorly animated as those!

What we're dealing with here is a failure to communicate... between the Character Designer's model art and the Artist. AND probably a fight against the clock. See, while we are all sitting here arguing about what's going on and whining about when the next episode is going to hit air, there are animators killing themselves to crank out the animation... Blue line, inbetween, check, outline, ink & paint, get it sequenced, composited, recorded, and readied for broadcast. Sometimes due to rewrites, shortages of supplies, confusion of scheduling, and a hundred other little things, the studio gets behind and then has to rush it. That means simplified art, off model characters and just plain weird looking animation....

Sheryl is not Mannish. She's HOT! That's not to say there haven't been problems with how she's been drawn in various places during the series. Look closely at some of the concert footage, or how she looks in the scenes flying in Alto's arms in the sunset... downright unattractive, and not like herself at all. Check out how terrible Mihail looks just before Sheryl comes up the stairs in this episode... Same problem as Sheryl at the Saotome home. Something got rushed in this show...

As for Ranka's odd puffy appearance in the "puppy dog" shot we're all referencing. THAT was the artist approximating the distortion you get from lensing a shot really close. The camera bends the subject and makes the closer areas look "puffed up" while the rest of the background falls away. This doesn't actually happen in animation cameras, because everything is shot flat. And even less so if you're using a digital process, because there's no camera at all. But it's an "effect" that the artists like to draw as a way of emphasizing the character by making them look like they have their nose right in the lens, for impact. It looks strange and warped on purpose and isn't meant to be examined so critically.

Can we stop sniping at how the characters look in these scenes now please folks?

[KiNA]

Originally Posted by Westlo

Hearing Ranka fans bring up words like "betrayal" make me laugh, they pulled the same shit in episode 5, I'm sorry guys and girls but her name is Ranka Lee not Ranka Saotome. On a side note I burn with rage seeing that above pic, somebody put that mongrel down.

I got needle!

[Wesley84]

I liked how adolescent Ai-kun snuck into the crowd during the concert, waving his antenaee to the beat.

[kilroy0097]

Originally Posted by Swampstorm

I've seen a number of excellent points made regarding this episode in the earlier discussion, but many of these were buried under a pile of angry accusations regarding shipping and bias. The main problem, I think, was in how these ideas were expressed.
(snip ...)
While we can't blame any of the characters on this last point, it's the actions that they make leading up to this point that provide the tinder for this scene. The final moment is nothing more than the dropping of a lit match.

***
Hopefully that helps clarify these points, since I'd much rather discuss something else.

Excellent Post Swampstorm. Clearly written and well thought out. Kudos.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by Westlo

Ranka fans for some reason seem to think this episode was to try and gain sympathy for Ranka and that Sheryl was cast in the "bad" role, I honestly have no fucking idea what show they are watching at this point.

Twilight Zone?