AnimeSuki Hot Linking

[GHDpro]

This thread is for BitTorrent site owners and fansubgroup members only.
Casual AnimeSuki visitors may participate, but your opinion will weigh less.

As I've let known in several threads already, I'm working on a rewrite of the main
AnimeSuki "client" scripts -- what you see on AnimeSuki.com & mirrors.

One of the new "features" I am planning for this rewrite is hot linking to torrent
files on BitTorrent files. Visitors who care will probably like this - yet site owners
and fansubgroups may hate it. And for this reason is this thread.

Based on a discussion thread in the (hidden) "Site Teams" forum, I've already
adjusted my plans a bit, and am now proposing the following:

• The hot linking will be implemented by showing small icon in front of the normal
  series name + episode link. That icon will be the hotlink to the torrent. The normal link to
  the homepage of the torrents will not change -- it will still be the series name + episode as it is now.
  
  
• In cases where hot linking is not possible due to anti-leeching scripts or due to
  specific requests from the BitTorrent site operators and/or fansubgroups, it will be possible
  to disable this for certain sites.
  
  
• The "hot link icon" in front of the normal link will be optional. You can select to show
  it by visiting a still to be created "preferences" page which will record your choice by means
  of a cookie.
  
  
• And now the main thing: the default selection for this preference will be Off.
  Thus, you need to enable it first to see the hotlinking icon. Thus, the majority may not use it.

So, in conclusion this means that visitors who know about this feature AND who specifically
enable it on the preferences page will see the hotlinking icon. The majority of visitors
will therefore not see it and will not use it. Futhermore, it will be something that can disabled
for certain sites on request.

Now, with this, would you (as BitTorrent site owner currently linked by AnimeSuki
or fansubgroup member) still be against this feature as currently proposed?

Please note that AnimeSuki already actively hotlinks to sites which contain
large amounts of licensed anime. This will obviously not change.

[Elepsis]

Personally I could not care less how people get my group's torrents, but I think this idea has some other concerns you may want to consider. For instance, if a group changes the file name of a torrent on their tracker for whatever reason (It has been done once or twice), your link will be broken (unless you intend to readd the whole torrent in such cases). If you can get the technical aspects figured out, I don't horribly care either way. My group doesn't exist to drive visitors to the website (as evidenced by it being down for several months now) or the channel.

[xris]

Originally Posted by Elepsis

if a group changes the file name of a torrent on their tracker for whatever reason (It has been done once or twice), your link will be broken (unless you intend to readd the whole torrent in such cases).

Thanks for the reply. This isn't a new issue for us actually, our site scan already picks up and alerts us of the fact that a file name changes so introducing the direct link won't actually make much of a difference (to us at least). It would mean the link is broken for a short period of time (as you mentioned) but typically it would be fixed within an hour or so. I wouldn't be surprised if GHDpro wrote the code such that the direct link wouldn't be enabled if the link was broken.

[Garylisk]

It sounds convenient, so I don't think it's a bad idea at all.

[Forse]

If that happens I am sure to put anti-leeching on our site (I have enough hotlinking from gallery already ). The main point is to generate traffic and hotlinking will make it go down to VERY less (for small fansub groups even to 0). I mean we sub for free...the less leechers can do is visit our site.

I am sure many admins will agree with me on this one...

[complich8]

I think a lot of groups wouldn't have problems with hotlinking at all ... particularly anyone using scarywater 'cause scarywater's pages aren't particularly customizable.

I think there'll be bitching whenever hotlinking is done, but there'll be bitching whenever there's any change in how things work. I can't think of any group bt sites that are ad-supported offhand, and that's the big complaint about hotlinking: you deny the site ad revenues while enabling people to download directly. Without ad revenues in the equation, I think it becomes something of a non-issue.

I know in my leeching experience I've found it troublesome to go after some torrent file linked from here and find a 6 page list of unsorted randomly named torrents to search through from a group's page to find what I'm looking for...

I'd probably use such a feature, and I don't personally see a problem with it. I wouldn't even mind that being a default-on thing, from how you're describing it.

edit: I can see why forse wouldn't like it: one ad-supported tracker added to the list after all

[Forse]

Originally Posted by complich8

edit: I can see why forse wouldn't like it: one ad-supported tracker added to the list after all

I think I am not the only one...

[ChocoEd]

Originally Posted by complich8

I can't think of any group bt sites that are ad-supported offhand, and that's the big complaint about hotlinking: you deny the site ad revenues while enabling people to download directly. Without ad revenues in the equation, I think it becomes something of a non-issue.

Actually my biggest problem is with the lack of publicity for other torrents. It used to be that whenever I put out a new file, the population on all my other torrents would experience a noticeable uptick as people (re)discovered them in surfing to the same page. Once mircx went to direct links, that pretty much stopped, to my dismay.

Since Animesuki just doesn't list some types of legitimate torrents (music videos for instance), this secondary popularity was almost the only way to get the word out about them.

I can't really come down against the proposal, since I use direct download links myself all the time and love them, but somewhere there is an "if you liked X maybe you'd also like to download Y from us" benefit getting lost too. Just thought I'd mention that aspect.

[Forse]

Originally Posted by ChocoEd

I can't really come down against the proposal, since I use direct download links myself all the time and love them, but somewhere there is an "if you liked X maybe you'd also like to download Y from us" benefit getting lost too. Just thought I'd mention that aspect.

Well it's up to admin. It's really easy to fight with direct downloads. Just 4 lines .ht file

[Zarxrax]

My opinion is pretty much the same as Elepsis. I don't really have much of a problem with this. The only concern I really have is that, I assume people discover our older torrents by visiting the site, and thus they stay active. If people fail to notice these other torrents then that means I will have to seed more often. Though if people have to manually enable the feature, I'm sure a good 95% of visitors wont even know that it even exists... and so shouldn't cause much of a problem.

[Nikolai]

I'm pretty much split on the idea...I love the hotlinking idea as a downloader, but it's true that linking to pages instead increases the seeding on other Torrents.

What I'm wondering is...which link will the RSS feed use?

[CompShrink]

As the groups can opt out of it, I don't have a problem with it, because I'll opt out of it. While one group I'm in, #ToTan, won't care, hotlinking is the same cause all they have is a torrent page, I want people to visit my site, my forum, etc. I also agree with the points that things such as AMVs and subbed PVs wouldn't be noticed nearly as much, and reseeding and finding other series by chance would also be decreased. So... I'm still undecided on the issue as well.

[JustAnotherFan]

A small request: While I know most of the people that posted already, that might change. So if you are going to post "in behalf of a group" please name your group and maybe your position in that group

[brood-faun]

As it was mentioned earlier, older torrents would have less chance to keep it seeded. Not to mention some sites/trackers (that are linked by animesuki) may contain mixture of various fansub group torrents. So releases of one group might help bringing leechers for the other group's torrent. But, by hot linking it would kill it. Sometimes various information about certain files are listed while hotlinking will not make those information too easily accessible.

I also like point out file name/file host changes issue. As it mentioned by xris, animesuki would pick it up if it was changed. But what if you're file name is named by using numbers(i.e. http://23434.torrent). Some host will change your file to number if the name contain illegal characters such as ,&.

I don't think it is a deal for the leechers to click couple of extra times to get a file. After all, fansub groups are putting a heck lot more effort to sub a file. Not to mention, Bt is one of the easiest to way to download a file(i.e. compared to IRC).

I am not sure if I would favour hotlinking but at least animesuki could put a link to the torrent page directly on their main page.

[s0nicfreak]

(I run & host Riten Kyo Digital's tracker)

I will opt out of it as well. Because like others said the site link with new releases helps the popularity of older releases.

But maybe it might hurt diffrent groups who release things within a short time span of each other. For example groups who do Naruto, lazy people might choose one group over the other because for group A they only have to click once, but group B opted out so they would have to click twice. But maybe there aren't many people who are that lazy and I'm thinking about it to much...

[JAppi]

I'm not affiliated with any fansub group other than Sub-par Subs which is a parody sub group and will probably not get listed, ever.

What benefit does direct linking give? It only saves you a single click.

Although, hotlinking has yet to deter me from wanting to view a group's site, so the only negative side I see is that I might not see any releases that I missed before and want to download.

[JOJOS'STAR]

Originally Posted by s0nicfreak

(I run & host Riten Kyo Digital's tracker)
For example groups who do Naruto, lazy people might choose one group over the other because for group A they only have to click once, but group B opted out so they would have to click twice. But maybe there aren't many people who are that lazy and I'm thinking about it to much...

err..I hope you're thinking too much..

BTW I agree with you Jappi

[lomeando]

I love the idea of direct links. It lets our trackers dish out less bandwidth, since they don't have to serve the dynamic pages with statistics and whatnot. And since the tracker our group uses is offered as a free service, anything to cut their costs is a good thing in my books.

[Lucier]

I tend to agree with the others on the aspect of less publicity...

I mean, I think we all have our names out there well enough... but when ppl visit our BT page (and any other group)... they may find some other series they're interested in getting... and direct linking *could* eliminate that possibility =/...

I'm not against it of course... and I don't think people should be FORCED to visit... but then again, it's nice so they can see what other work each group does in addition to the exact file they're dling...

[complich8]

Originally Posted by lomeando

I love the idea of direct links. It lets our trackers dish out less bandwidth, since they don't have to serve the dynamic pages with statistics and whatnot. And since the tracker our group uses is offered as a free service, anything to cut their costs is a good thing in my books.

I know a lot of sites have semistatic pages that update stats at regular intervals instead of every hit... gotwoot and scarywater for example (when it was first created gotwoot did stat refreshes every hit, until it got popular the load got so high that it completely locked up the whole system until httpd died... repeatedly). If you're doing semistatic like that, there won't be a big load diff.... but if you're thinking "save scarywater a couple bytes here and there" it's at least a good sentiment, if not a practical significant impact.

I dunno, I guess my feelings about this are kinda ambiguous when I think about it. The point of "older series and less popular stuff sees more traffic by association" is valid, I think... but then this isn't taking away the possibility of that being successful either. I think that the point of animesuki offering a hotlink feature is to let users choose whether they want to see it all or just the torrent... user choice isn't always a bad thing after all. It's not making the choice for the user though ... there's no "we will only hotlink to every release from now on" here, just "here's another option we can give you if you choose to use it".

I think there's a lot of different types of anime downloaders, and the option to hotlink is just a way to satifsy another type of leecher. But I have my doubts that the type of leecher who really really wants hotlinks to torrents is going to be logged in to be able to view them anyway. It's something I'd probably enable like I said, but I don't know how much I'd actually use it...