To Aru Kagaku no Railgun archived manga discussion

[zibi88]

I guess the only thing I liked in this chapter was the few pages with misaki and touma.... I just love Misakis smile there.... and it seriously makes me want to know how and when they met...what was their relationship before toumas memory loss

and I wonder if misaki met touma in person... or she was observing him via other peoples eyes the one she taken control over so touma never personaly met her ^^ so misaki might not be aware that he lost his memory.... or maybe they met as kids kinda in elementary or middle school.... but something happened... maybe some other girls were getting to close to him she got jelous over him and did something to those girls memories... touma learned about it and got angry at her... (like she mentioned here in c62 if he showed up like that to some other girl she would be disturbed...but if its her its really ok as he is her prince)


but still I wonder if she would be able to fix toumas memory somehow... like we see that her powers might work on him (till he doesnt touch his head with right hand) so she might be the key to fix him... but she waits till he asks her personaly


for me the misaki and touma past is one of the most interesting to me and cant wait to learn about it ^^ (I wonder if misaki met his parents ;P like misaka and her parents met toumas)

[Xero8420]

^
Actually she did met Touma in person recently (or maybe long time ago on the first sight)

Spoiler:

Unfortunately, his memory loss can't be fixed. But still, Misaki was actually aware that Touma has 'amnesia'.

[zibi88]

I know she met him in person few chapters back (chapter titled encounter) but it was after his memory loss.... but when was it the first time they met is the question

about memory we dont know if it cant be fixed... she is the strongest telepath in the whole city she might be able to do something with it... or at least she could show him "her" memory of the encounter they had... kinda from her perspective

but maybe she doesnt want to fix it becouse she knows "that touma" was mad at her and mostly broke all contacts with her.... so now its like a fresh start in which she might not do the same mistake and lose him

[zaeraal]

Originally Posted by zibi88

I just love Misakis smile there.... and it seriously makes me want to know how and when they met...what was their relationship before toumas memory loss

or maybe they met as kids kinda in elementary or middle school.... but something happened... maybe some other girls were getting to close to him she got jelous over him and did something to those girls memories... touma learned about it and got angry at her... (like she mentioned here in c62 if he showed up like that to some other girl she would be disturbed...but if its her its really ok as he is her prince)

Woah great theory there, that could really explain their relationship.

They had some "misfortunate encounter" due to which she ended up falling in love with him.
She liked him, but thanks to his "misfortune" other girls also started getting close to him.
Due to her powers, she was forced to feel their emotions and affections towards Touma.
This made her mad and she decided to order them to do something bad so he would dislike them.
She could not manipulate memories back then, but still could order them to: steal / destroy his stuff, be rude to him, strip in class ...
But he found out and got mad at her.

wait, wait, wait.. THE HEADBAND GIRL!! Could she be the one? (amongside many others)

Originally Posted by zibi88

about memory we dont know if it cant be fixed... she is the strongest telepath in the whole city she might be able to do something with it... or at least she could show him "her" memory of the encounter they had... kinda from her perspective

but maybe she doesnt want to fix it becouse she knows "that touma" was mad at her and mostly broke all contacts with her.... so now its like a fresh start in which she might not do the same mistake and lose him

This perfectly fits the above.

And it also explains what was she doing at his school, she is also trying to enroll there.
Misaki looks like 3rd year in Middle School, so she is going to join High School next year (Touma is in first year).
He could have been her senpai in her elementary school, because he is 1 year older from her.
Like this, she will be able to be back with him and get a "new begining".

UNLESS she is already student there!! Like when Mikoto questioned her if she really belongs to Middle School.
(Then the Tokiwadai stuff is just for cover)
Which would be the most hilarious development their relationship could have.
He got so mad, that she decided to never show up to him again, but at the same time she could not abandom him.
So she ended up in class next to his, always watching him.. So close and yet so far away.

[desrtsku]

The heck is with this "Touma saves the day" tag? Mark my words, I'm going to laugh hard at you guys if he gets trashed next chapter.

about memory we dont know if it cant be fixed... she is the strongest telepath in the whole city she might be able to do something with it

Spoiler for spoiler:

We know for sure it can't be fixed. she's the strongest "telepath", yes, but even the greatest cook on earth needs ingredients to make a dish.
Some of Touma's brain cells were destroyed. It's not like his memories are there but are just inaccessible to him, they were reduced to nothing.

or at least she could show him "her" memory of the encounter they had... kinda from her perspective

That is not quite "memory fixing", that's more "memory transfer". And that's not the sort of thing you should do, unless you're married to the other person or about to die.

[zibi88]

Originally Posted by desrtsku

The heck is with this "Touma saves the day" tag? Mark my words, I'm going to laugh hard at you guys if he gets trashed next chapter.

Spoiler for spoiler:

We know for sure it can't be fixed. she's the strongest "telepath", yes, but even the greatest cook on earth needs ingredients to make a dish.
Some of Touma's brain cells were destroyed. It's not like his memories are there but are just inaccessible to him, they were reduced to nothing.

If his memory cells were destoryed then he should be a vegetable now...as memories are located all over the brain not just in 1spot... since we get memories from different senses... be it smell of food or grass...to optical memory... if we hear sound off wind we remember it... memories might be based on our emotions too we remember when we were happy or sad... and those brain parts are located all over the thing in many locations.... the feather of light hit a certain area so maybe it just destroyed some "neoron paths inside the brain" that stops the memories from other brain parts to connect totaly

becouse if he had lost "all" memories... he wouldnt know how to walk, move, breath, speak or read..... geranlly its like destroyed cells are replaced by new ones... so maybe misaki would just need to start the brain to function properly by connecting few memories to start the chain effect and one memory would bring another one after some outside impulse

like if he would look on sea he might start to remember some memories containing the "sea" so memories of him beign close to similar envionment....ect.

but maybe aleister doesnt want touma to remmeber becouse its safe for him...better not to know what you are and what power you have... the same goes for misaki.... if he had forgotten his past then he had forgoten the time she crossed the line and he broke contact with her (she knows she hurt him and is aware of it...but it doesnt stop her from loving him.... and wont allow for other girls to get too close to him.... mostly the threat to misaka about entering her territory was about Touma... like dont get too close to him or I will act)

misaki might just want to start from the beggining... as she introduced herself to him in chapter encounter... and showed how similar they are :P (biribiri... piripiri) or how she can get so close to him with ease [crossed arms even throught they first met... and misaki is not the type to allow herself to be touched by any guy [or new met people] so easyly]

I guess the chairman (the girl) is kinda glad that he lost his memory...so he doesnt remember the bad things about her from past and can start from beggining without him hateing her (from the beggining of new testament where she throught touma died... and she saw no point of getting up and was just lying around for few days... like if he is not there what is the point anyway)


so maybe the "cant" fix it (aleister the biggest mage of all time that created aiwass cant bring his memories back) is mainly the "it would be better not to fix it".... like cant aleister kinda go back in time copy toumas memories before the incident...go bck to present and put them inside his head :P


anyway its gona be intersting to see how touma will deal with misaka...and I wonder if touma wont make gensei notice him and grow curiosity on his power....

but still cant wait for a moment where touma wakes up inside misakis lap XD (misaka already did that)

[Draco Spirit]

So!

Chapter 62 was a nice chapter. Mikoto being control by her anger towards the darkness of Academy City is a nice call back to the Sister arc.

Misaki seems to know a fair more about Touma than you think she would....

And 'Judgment' has arrived! I always get the impression Kuroko see herself as agent of judgement in the literal sense, but anyway it be interesting to see if by the end of the fight she remember what Mikoto is to her. Personally my money she put two and two together and make five and assume Mikoto is her girlfriend

Still, I think Touma going to be the one who brings her back to sanity.

[Xero8420]

You know what? I actually like the way you speculate the theory about Touma x Misaki relationship, zibi.

The way you pointed out seems very likely to be the case of why Touma has 'unknowingly cut ties' with Misaki. It seems fitting, even though it might not be true. Oh boy, now I'm much more motivated to find out more about this pairing. To be honest, as much as I like Touma x Mikoto, but I personally like Touma x Misaki even more.

[Hiss13]

Originally Posted by zibi88

If his memory cells were destoryed then he should be a vegetable now...as memories are located all over the brain not just in 1spot... since we get memories from different senses... be it smell of food or grass...to optical memory... if we hear sound off wind we remember it... memories might be based on our emotions too we remember when we were happy or sad... and those brain parts are located all over the thing in many locations.... the feather of light hit a certain area so maybe it just destroyed some "neoron paths inside the brain" that stops the memories from other brain parts to connect totaly

becouse if he had lost "all" memories... he wouldnt know how to walk, move, breath, speak or read..... geranlly its like destroyed cells are replaced by new ones... so maybe misaki would just need to start the brain to function properly by connecting few memories to start the chain effect and one memory would bring another one after some outside impulse

I'm pretty sure that the novels explained that what was destroyed was the part of his brain that destroyed his event memory. Every other bit of his memory such as how powers worked, etc remained unharmed.

[Pyromania]

If Mikoto holds all of these feelings towards Academy City from the betrayal she experienced when she was a child, learning what the city did to Kiyama's kids, seeing the utter horror she did when she was embroiled with her sisters...

Why didn't she do anything about it, or even show SOME inner conflict over the fact that she was living peacefully and happily with her friends when she knew exactly what was really going on in the town?

She seemed to get upset for a second when Mitori called her ass out on this during their fight, but I kind of wish there was more demonstration of her inner feelings on this matter. It's a fairly huge deal in the development of the manga's main character so it not being foreshadowed more clearly is kind of disappointing.

Perhaps we'll get some more on this inner conflict in the next few chapters. Or maybe Touma will just solve everything and the focus will shift to harem antics. That would be most unfortunate.

How is Kuroko going to fight Mitori? She would need to locate Mitori to actually stand a chance of doing anything more than being roadkill. She COULD teleport to nearby building tops and look for her, but if Mitori just hides in a building she has it pretty well in hand. The most Kuroko can do is divert Mitori's focus away from her job of capturing Misaki/guiding Mikoto.

Gensei seemed to think that Mikoto would continue to grow in power? I wonder if fighting Touma will result in more power growth.

[blackwhite67]

Originally Posted by tsunade666

Does the level 6 shift plan even work for Accelerator? because he only found out a new trick when he fought Touma. Fighting the Sisters, even if they are modeled for different type of battlefield still hold nothing against Accelerator. Its becoming a redundant act for Accelerator to just murder them.

And we all knew the level 6 shift plan for Accelerator is a farce -_- the real intention is the scatter the sisters throughout the world to increase the range of artificial heaven.

Gensei use mental out the control the network and the network guide the artificial heaven into Misaka (or at least a part of it so she is like connected to it) to forcefully awaken her potential.

The stat I'm talking about is the potential of one person. REMEMBER THE FUCKING PARAMETER'S LIST! its easier for other people to level up faster because they had the fucking potential for them to level up which is why the city help them more than the other poor kids that doesn't have the necessary skill to level up easier.

OKAY LET'S PUT IT THIS WAY. EVERYONE HAS THE POTENTIAL TO AWAKEN BUT DOES THAT MEAN EVERYONE HAD THE NECESSARY SKILL TO AWAKEN?

Now I use skill instead of stat. Because I can't put a word that would describe the people who can easily increase their level than the others. Maybe they are more fortunate than the other less fortunate (level 0)

But it still stands that Mikoto didn't awaken on her own but force to awaken and for her to reach that level she even needed the additional buffs/stats/skill or whatever juice you want to call artificial heaven for her to awaken.

I won't deny that MIKOTO CAN AWAKEN BECAUSE I ALREADY SAID THAT EVERYONE CAN AWAKEN OR BECOME LEVEL 5 WITH PROPER HELP FROM ACADEMY CITY but that didn't change that they can't do it on their own.

Look at Rikou. She has now the potential to become level 5 but she is still stuck on level 4. You will need the help of academy city to properly level up your skill.

Even Accelerator and Kakine ended up getting helped and played by for them to reach their level.

Okay. I will stop here. I'm also confused and needed more information but the hell for the others being able to awaken if they aren't even considered special by the director. that's why no 1 and 2 are labeled main plan and spare because they are special.

And Mikoto is just a convenient tool for Gensei to experiment with.

I can't imagine what kind of stimuli or whatever drug/machine/process will be needed for her awaken. Heck, Misaki has limits on her ability too but its been boosted by exterior to make her ability stronger.

hmm... the idea of the others awakening isn't a dream anymore but for them to awaken. You will needed more than just stimuli.

Originally Posted by Xero8420

^
And Awaki too. She also has the potential to become Level 5, but she has her own limitation that made her stuck in Level 4 as well, let alone stronger than Kuroko's.

After all, as much as it's true that everyone has the potential to succeed their current self, but everything has its inevitable limits too.

It was never stated that the Level Six Shift plan would fail if run to completion.

The emotional stimulus I'm talking about does not refer to drugs or any sort of artificial means that Academy City uses. It refers to the states of mind obtained during extreme situations. Every awakening so far has happened without Academy City's help. Accelerator first awakened while disconnected from the SISTERS network and Kakine awakened on his own when he refused to lose to Accelerator. All without the help of Academy City. This indicates that emotional stimulus is basically a free pass to level 6, but this isn't as cheap as you think considering it's impossible to reproduce artificially.

The Parameter List you cited lists the potential level of espers and the cost of realizing those levels using only Academy City's resources. In the end, it does not take into account real life experiences. It was stated that Rikou had reawakened her potential as a Level 5 thanks to her experience in World War III and her relationship with Hamazura.

I imagine that watching Touma die at the hands of the villain, will get Mikoto black wings and finally working up the nerve to confess in some life-and-death situation will get her white ones.

[Miraluka]

Originally Posted by zibi88

If his memory cells were destoryed then he should be a vegetable now...as memories are located all over the brain not just in 1spot... since we get memories from different senses... be it smell of food or grass...to optical memory... if we hear sound off wind we remember it... memories might be based on our emotions too we remember when we were happy or sad... and those brain parts are located all over the thing in many locations.... the feather of light hit a certain area so maybe it just destroyed some "neoron paths inside the brain" that stops the memories from other brain parts to connect totaly

becouse if he had lost "all" memories... he wouldnt know how to walk, move, breath, speak or read..... geranlly its like destroyed cells are replaced by new ones... so maybe misaki would just need to start the brain to function properly by connecting few memories to start the chain effect and one memory would bring another one after some outside impulse

like if he would look on sea he might start to remember some memories containing the "sea" so memories of him beign close to similar envionment....ect.

Event memories, nothing else, those feather were meant to be used on Index to begin with.

Originally Posted by Pyromania

How is Kuroko going to fight Mitori? She would need to locate Mitori to actually stand a chance of doing anything more than being roadkill. She COULD teleport to nearby building tops and look for her, but if Mitori just hides in a building she has it pretty well in hand. The most Kuroko can do is divert Mitori's focus away from her job of capturing Misaki/guiding Mikoto.

Mitori is actively controling her metal liquid doll, I'm sure Misaki can track her thoughts until her actual place just like Xochitl tracked her.

Originally Posted by dersktru

The heck is with this "Touma saves the day" tag? Mark my words, I'm going to laugh hard at you guys if he gets trashed next chapter.

He always gets trashed but still manages to win.

[desrtsku]

^

He always gets trashed but still manages to win.

Spoiler for I caught a cold:

*cough*Tsuchimikado*cough*Thor*cough*Acqua*cough*Kanzaki*cough*othinus*cough*Cendrillon*cough*Carissa*cough*Armed anti-skill*cough*Fiamma1stround*cough*
That's one damn cold.

Originally Posted by zibi88

If his memory cells were destoryed then he should be a vegetable now...as memories are located all over the brain not just in 1spot... since we get memories from different senses... be it smell of food or grass...to optical memory... if we hear sound off wind we remember it... memories might be based on our emotions too we remember when we were happy or sad... and those brain parts are located all over the thing in many locations.... the feather of light hit a certain area so maybe it just destroyed some "neoron paths inside the brain" that stops the memories from other brain parts to connect totaly

Nope.

Spoiler for long post, kinda off topic, and also Index spoiler:

"Memory" isn't something that is stored uniformly in our brain. There are different types of memory and each of these type are most of the time processed/registered by different parts of our brain, and/or is retained/consolidated in different parts of our brain.

There is what you call short term and long term memory.

1. Short term memory is when you look at this number : 4891427664231618. For a few of seconds you will remember it, but then you'll quickly forget it.

2. Long term memory is when something that was initially short term memories is deemed by your brain worth remembering, and is in consequence registered correctly then consolidated in parts of your brain

Long term memories can also be divided in two : explicit and implicit

2.1 Implicit memory : it's the memory regarding processed that doesn't require your thought = memory that is retrieved and processed subconsciously. For example : Acquired skills or memories of actions that you perform during your daily life (how to hold a gun, how to ride a bike, how to walk, how to write), this one is also called procedural memory.
For example : reflexes acquired through experiences but you might lose if you don't practice enough (Pavlov's dog type of reflex in general)
The parts of the brain involves with that are according to some scientist the limbic system and the cerebellum regions. Touma's implicit memories are intact, so there's no need to go further into this one.

2.2 explicit memory : it's the type of memory that requires your consciousness and your thoughts to remember = memories that your retrieve by explicitly wanting to remember it with your will. There are also two types of Explicit memory : semantic memory and episodic memory.

2.2.1 semantic memory : is the type of memory where all your general knowledges of the world are stored.
Example : definition of "square", the capital of Canada, Abraham Lincoln, Innocentius, etc
Touma's semantic memories are also intact (mostly)

2.2.2 Episodic memory : also called autobiographical memory sometimes, is the type of memory that involves our personal experiences or things that we took part ourselves.
Example : what I ate yesterday, my trip to Hawaii, who my mother is, what my name is, where I live, who thought me and where I learned what a square is, who thought me and where I learned who Abraham Lincoln is, who thought me and where I learned what Innocentius is.
It's this kind of memory that Touma Lost.

Things you have to know about explicit memory is that, the scientist themselves aren't exactly sure what parts of the brain are involved with this, especially with the semantic memory. They are almost certain that episodic memory is consolidated in the temporal lobe region of the cortex. Some say semantic memories is stored in the same region, some says it's stored on other region of the cortex, some says it's stored all over the brain like you said.
The reason for that is that most case of amnesia are about people being unable to retrieve their episodic memories yet, for some cases, have no trouble with their basic knowledges (and their implicit memories, obviously).

Touma had his cortex damaged by a magic spell, resulting in the loss of his episodic memories. Frog faced doctor himself told him the damage were impressive. It isn't just some problem with his synapse that unable him to access those memories, no, his brain cells were destroyed for good.
But he still retains all of his other long term memories (implicit and some of his semantic ones).

[II Maestro]

Its Touma's trademark after all to be trash and still alive and then sent to the hospital.

I'm a Mikoto X Touma fan but after seeing Misaki's smile I have a thought that maybe Misaki X Touma isn't bad either. Damn Misaki's smile is cute.

[tsunade666]

Originally Posted by blackwhite67

It was never stated that the Level Six Shift plan would fail if run to completion.

The emotional stimulus I'm talking about does not refer to drugs or any sort of artificial means that Academy City uses. It refers to the states of mind obtained during extreme situations. Every awakening so far has happened without Academy City's help. Accelerator first awakened while disconnected from the SISTERS network and Kakine awakened on his own when he refused to lose to Accelerator. All without the help of Academy City. This indicates that emotional stimulus is basically a free pass to level 6, but this isn't as cheap as you think considering it's impossible to reproduce artificially.

The Parameter List you cited lists the potential level of espers and the cost of realizing those levels using only Academy City's resources. In the end, it does not take into account real life experiences. It was stated that Rikou had reawakened her potential as a Level 5 thanks to her experience in World War III and her relationship with Hamazura.

I imagine that watching Touma die at the hands of the villain, will get Mikoto black wings and finally working up the nerve to confess in some life-and-death situation will get her white ones.

True level 6 isn't deemed to fail because its the goal of academy city. to reach level 6 but the sister project for accelerator is deem to fail because the goal there is to send the sister to extend the reach of artificial heaven.

As for emotional stimulus... true too. I won't deny. The awakened state for Accelerator is different from Kakine. In their re matched battle. Kakine is wary on the emotional state of Accelerator. To much negative will result on black wings while the white wings is unknown but for Kakine we don't even know if his in continued awaken state or he needed to awaken again. His a complete different being after his rebirth.

The parameter's list is the limit the academy city planned for their student with minimum waste on their part but it doesn't mean that they can go beyond it. They just don't like to waste resources on the unknown so when Rikou reach the state that she can reach level 5. It still doesn't mean she can reach it on her own but we don't know for sure. For now, she is still level 4 and the city wants her back to turn her into level 5.

But is the emotional stimulus enough to make them reach the next level? because so far they are in half-way point.

Force anger for Mikoto? I don't know because I'm still skeptical in this whole awaken state. Is the emotional stimulus enough for her to reach the unreachable? because that would make the number 1 and 2 being special useless right? that's why even if I admit that everyone has a chance to awaken or reach level 5. I'm still wary to accept it because why will academy city label them that if that is their limits?

And I for one doesn't go shit with will power or never give up stupid motto So using emotional stimulus is not enough for me to convince to go power up. Its like the shounen stupid power up which is why I'm still skeptical on the whole awakening. It makes the story cheap for me.

That's why I kinda like Hamazura the king of luck and Touma the worst luck being their selves. Viva level 0

[Miraluka]

Originally Posted by desrtsku

^

Spoiler for I caught a cold:

*cough*Tsuchimikado*cough*Thor*cough*Acqua*cough*Kanzaki*cough*othinus*cough*Cendrillon*cough*Carissa*cough*Armed anti-skill*cough*Fiamma1stround*cough*
That's one damn cold.

Then Mikoto would need to train her muscles, use a I WIN power or get damn gun or else she won't be winning against Touma.

[Pyromania]

Or she could just stand on top of buildings throwing beams and stuff at him and abusing thunder-teleport to stay out of range if he somehow got up to her.

But that would be logical. And we can't have Touma's opponents doing THAT now can we? It'd be nice if Touma was good and owned through this utterly obvious strategy for once, plot armor notwithstanding.

[Although in honestly Mikoto doesn't really seem in a condition to use any kind of strategy]

[tsunade666]

Actually I find it fishy that Mikoto just appear in front of Touma. It looks like Misaki sends her to him though I'm not sure. Its just too much coincidence for her to just appear in front of him and Misaki sending the message to Touma and Misaki looks too tired after that scene.

[ACertainStark]

I think Mikoto was already there going by the previous pages.

[tsunade666]

Look at page 15 when Misaki is pointing her controller. There is an electric discharge and Mikoto just appear in front of Touma and Misaki sends a message to Touma on what to do.