Anime you hate but everyone seems to like?

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by GenjiChan

Shana may also became popular since her character being a tsundere was craze back then....

So, Shana got that popular back then only due to the presence of a tsundere girl like her? Hmm...that’s...incredible . I mean, it’s not like Shana invented the “cute tsundere girl” right? What makes her that special? (aside from outside factor like her KugiRie seiyuu, etc)

[hyl]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

So, Shana got that popular back then only due to the presence of a tsundere girl like her? Hmm...that’s...incredible . I mean, it’s not like Shana invented the “cute tsundere girl” right? What makes her that special? (aside from outside factor like her KugiRie seiyuu, etc)

To be fair though, after the succes of both Zero no Tsukaima and Shakugan no Shana we got to see more LN adaptations and Kugimiya Rie casted as tsunderes

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by hyl

To be fair though, after the succes of both Zero no Tsukaima and Shakugan no Shana we got to see more LN adaptations and Kugimiya Rie casted as tsunderes

And to be fair too, I’m not asking about that. What I’m asking is: if we look at the anime itself, what’s so special about Shakugan no Shana? I mean, even I can understand the appeal of anime like Code Geass (outside from the hype that it's Clamp + Sunrise collaboration or whatnot) no matter how ridiculous the story is to me. So, is Shana’s charm as a “cute tsundere girl” really that strong back then?

[ahelo]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

And to be fair too, I’m not asking about that. What I’m asking is: if we look at the anime itself, what’s so special about Shakugan no Shana? I mean, even I can understand the appeal of anime like Code Geass (outside from the hype that it's Clamp + Sunrise collaboration or whatnot) no matter how ridiculous the story is to me. So, is Shana’s charm as a “cute tsundere girl” really that strong back then?

Yes. Yes it is.

[Echoes]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

And to be fair too, I’m not asking about that. What I’m asking is: if we look at the anime itself, what’s so special about Shakugan no Shana? I mean, even I can understand the appeal of anime like Code Geass (outside from the hype that it's Clamp + Sunrise collaboration or whatnot) no matter how ridiculous the story is to me. So, is Shana’s charm as a “cute tsundere girl” really that strong back then?

I can only offer my perspective on the series, so take it for what it's worth.

Shana is a strong driving force for the series. She's cute, she's feisty, and her character design, especially when she's in her fighting form, rocking that red hair and fiery eyes, is a thing of beauty. Her iconic design is what most stands out, and probably what immediately jumps to mind for most people when they hear the title. (Which in itself is just so marketable and memorable, "Shakugan no Shana". It's got alliteration, it's easy to pronounce without knowing Japanese, and it's just fun to say.)

She is by no means the only selling point of the series, though. I think that the mythology is just fantastic. The world-building is what kept me most interested, despite loving the characters. The terminology is well fleshed out, and the idea of people fading from existence is surprisingly grim.

Spoiler for Mild concept spoiler:

They don't just die, they're literally erased. People, including everyone they ever knew, forget they ever even existed.

That appeals to me, and makes the series stand out. It's also got some pretty damn cool action scenes with a large variety of enemies, a kick-ass soundtrack, as well as opening themes that completely rock and set the mood for what's to come.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Echoes

I can only offer my perspective on the series, so take it for what it's worth.

Shana is a strong driving force for the series. She's cute, she's feisty, and her character design, especially when she's in her fighting form, rocking that red hair and fiery eyes, is a thing of beauty. Her iconic design is what most stands out, and probably what immediately jumps to mind for most people when they hear the title. (Which in itself is just so marketable and memorable, "Shakugan no Shana". It's got alliteration, it's easy to pronounce without knowing Japanese, and it's just fun to say.)

She is by no means the only selling point of the series, though. I think that the mythology is just fantastic. The world-building is what kept me most interested, despite loving the characters. The terminology is well fleshed out, and the idea of people fading from existence is surprisingly grim.

Spoiler for Mild concept spoiler:

They don't just die, they're literally erased. People, including everyone they ever knew, forget they ever even existed.

That appeals to me, and makes the series stand out. It's also got some pretty damn cool action scenes with a large variety of enemies, a kick-ass soundtrack, as well as opening themes that completely rock and set the mood for what's to come.

Hmm...I see. Thanks for your informative reply. As for my own view, I think this reviews from Blu-ray.com’s Jeffrey Kauffman is one of the best representation of it:

Spoiler for Shana Season 1:

Originally Posted by blu-ray.com

Is there a doctor in the house, meaning is there someone with an advanced degree in psychiatry or psychology who might be able to explain the weird, almost seemingly genetic, proclivity of Japanese anime producers to craft shows where geekish young men are suddenly paired with otherwordly females for the sole purpose of capturing and/or decimating all sorts of ghosts and ghoulies from some nebulous realm of evil?

Shakugan no Shana is an oddly metaphysical little anime, one that spends a surprising amount of time on questions of identity and being as it attempts (not always successfully) to easily convey the rather convoluted states of existence of both Yuji and Shana. About two-thirds of the way through the first episode, an episode which kind of lurches between really static elements and then over the top action sequences, everything grinds to a momentary halt as Shana attempts to explicate the idea of a Torch. The closest analog that I can come up with is that classic late 1950's science fiction thriller, Invasion of the Body Snatchers. It turns that scores of humans, including Yuji, have been replaced with "torch doubles", kind of like the pod people in the Don Siegel film, so that the vast masses of humanity don't become too shocked that there is a major supernatural battle going on. It also turns out that most torches have a limited "shelf life", so to speak, and are slated to burn out sooner rather than later. That's where Yuji's status as a Mystes (there's that problematic terminology again) kicks in, for it provides him the regenerative power that makes sure Shakugan no Shana wasn't a one episode series.

Shakugan no Shana simply traverses such a well worn path that most anime fans are probably going to be able to predict events long before they happen. The series, at least in this first season, also falls into an all to comfortable rut where the shōnen aspect trundles along for the first segment of any given episode, at which point a supernatural battle ensues, lasting for most of the second segment, after which things settle down and we're back to life (or whatever a "torch" experiences) as usual. There are a couple of saving graces here. First, the relationship between Yuji and Shana is a slowly developing arc that actually does create at least a bit of interest. And perhaps most importantly, the show seems to have a decided sense of humor about itself, which helps to offset some of the cliché ridden aspects, almost as if the creative staff knew what a "trite and true" offering they were crafting. This humor certainly never rises to the manic level of, say, Soul Eater, but it at least gives the show a little extra zing.

These positive elements are offset, however, by some less than well handled elements, including a needlessly silly and melodramatic love triangle that never offers much other than two girls screaming at each other while Yuji looks on, slightly bemused that he's the unlikely center of attention. The series also suffers internally when the rather boisterous battle elements, many of which feature really bizarre creatures, are stacked up against the "normal life" sequences, which are decidedly drab and routine. This is a series that may in fact appeal to some anime fans who haven't seen anything like it before, or may offer passing entertainment value for those who have seen something like it before. But this first season at least is an exercise in some major déjà vu.

Don't get me (or this review) wrong: there's nothing really horrible about Shakugan no Shana, and many anime fans may in fact get at least a modicum of entertainment value out of it. But it's just so completely like so many other offerings that it almost becomes hard to differentiate it from its competitors at times. There's simply not a lot of distinctive content here to latch on to, other than an overly convoluted set of terms (some of which are explained in some funny shorts included as a supplement). For those just getting into the anime world, this will probably be a better bet than for those who have a long history with the idiom and have no doubt seen many other series with this same basic set up.

Spoiler for Shana Season 2:

Originally Posted by blu-ray.com

There's obviously no point in hiding my disappointment not only with this anime's content, which is so repetitive and derivative as to provoke actual disbelief at times, but also with this release's really problematic video presentation. Now there are boatloads of Shakugan no Shana fans out there, as evidenced by the long-livedness of this franchise, something also evidenced by the glut of releases we've been seeing lately and which are obviously slated to continue on into 2013 (if we make it that far), so I am perhaps in the minority in finding this an underwhelming series at best. And to be fair (something that I really do try to be, even when I'm not particularly in love with any given release), the end of the second season has a few redeeming characteristics about it that make it at the very least not the worst arc of the previous two releases (one for Season 1, and Part 1 of Season 2).

This final arc of the second season has some fitfully interesting content as Pheles attempts to reunite with Johan, whom Pheles insists is magically linked with Yuji. In the meantime, a laundry list of other nefarious Denizen show up for this or that episode, temporarily diverting attention away from the main storyline and providing the expected battle element that is de rigeur for this series. The relationship between Yuji and Shana is somewhat deepened, especially in the last two or three episodes of the season, after Yuji has evolved in a sort of way beyond what might be termed a chrysalis state of being. Still, anyone has seen any given episode of Shakugan no Shana will not have much new to see in this set of episodes. At least there's always Margery, stumbling through the background and dissing most of the other characters in the show.

Maybe Shakugan no Shana simply wore me down over the course of the two previous releases, because truth be told, I didn't outright hate this final arc of episodes, and in fact I grew to rather like some of the supporting characters like Margery Daw. But there's simply no denying how repetitive and derivative this series is, something that obviously doesn't bother its hordes of fans but which really grated on my nerves quite a bit of the time.

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

So, Shana got that popular back then only due to the presence of a tsundere girl like her? Hmm...that’s...incredible . I mean, it’s not like Shana invented the “cute tsundere girl” right? What makes her that special? (aside from outside factor like her KugiRie seiyuu, etc)

Ok, what makes her special?

> tsundere
> wields a sword
> red hair/black hair.
> loli

Others
> romance
> animation

Originally Posted by Echoes

Her iconic design is what most stands out, and probably what immediately jumps to mind for most people when they hear the title. (Which in itself is just so marketable and memorable, "Shakugan no Shana".

She's a legend....

[Echoes]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Hmm...I see. Thanks for your informative reply.

I'm glad you found it informative, writing it was my pleasure.

I can see how someone would perceive the terminology as heavy-handed as opposed to interesting. I think it's fleshed out enough to make learning more about it fun and intriguing, but others might think it's unnecessary baggage or confusing exposition. It's all part of the world-building which aids in creating the general atmosphere of the series, which is hard to nail down in words, but which combined with the music excels at evoking a mood of ominous mystery. I also think that the contrast between the normal, everyday activities they engage in, and the bizarre monsters they face during the battles, is a strength rather than a weakness. Unfortunately, the second season focused entirely too much on the former, leading to a prolonged arc of almost nothing but school life, which is my least favorite part of the series. Margery, by the way, is also one of my least favorite parts of the series, so I guess me and Jeffrey Kauffman (and by extension, you) just take away very different things from the series. Which is, of course, perfectly fine.

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by rekkyoha

Anime with a ton of focus on a tsundere and where it is obvious that the MC will end up with her. Also most moe anime, only ones I'm ok with are lucky star and pani poni.

That's why MM failed me....

[Qikz]

Cowboy Bebop, I tried watching it and got bored, now everyone I know seems to regard at as"teh best anime evaaaar!!!!" :/\

[GreyZone]

Anime you hate but everyone seems to like?

Thanks you for mentioning it:

-Shakugan no Shana
-Zero no Tsukaima

I did not like these shows. Although I didn't watch them to the end, I was still disappointed from what I saw. I only watched them because they were "popular" but then I understood that it is not something that I could enjoy watching, so i dropped both of them.

Because reasons.

Nah the reasons are actually certain tropes that I really cannot stand. The main characters also felt quite... "artificial" and "stereotypical".

[Fuyuno]

Originally Posted by GDiddy

I don't hate it exactly(I do like the characters, and not for the looks either) but if people thought K was bad? Hakkenden is actually worse.

At least Hakkenden belongs in the right demographics, unlike K which basically a stupid(but effective) marketing scheme for girls to buy more shounen mangas.

[mistress_kisara]

Originally Posted by Fuyuno

At least Hakkenden belongs in the right demographics, unlike K which basically a stupid(but effective) marketing scheme for girls to buy more shounen mangas.

What's wrong with girls buying shounen manga?

[finalfury]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

And to be fair too, I’m not asking about that. What I’m asking is: if we look at the anime itself, what’s so special about Shakugan no Shana? I mean, even I can understand the appeal of anime like Code Geass (outside from the hype that it's Clamp + Sunrise collaboration or whatnot) no matter how ridiculous the story is to me. So, is Shana’s charm as a “cute tsundere girl” really that strong back then?

Decent female lead was what initially pulled me in to be honest. Her character development kept me watching. Shana satisfies my hair preferences: twin tails, pony tail, long black hair etc. Then again, watching this and zero no tsukaima together, its no wonder I ended up liking Shana more. Louise is just really violent to be honest. And I'm also one of the rare ones that watched the dub before the sub version. Also during the time period I watched it, I was less aware of moe and ecchi fan service as I am now and since Shana arguably didn't have that much fan service, I ended up liking it more and I never knew that Rie Kugimiya even existed during that time period since I watched the dub first.
I do recommend finishing the third season if you watched the first two seasons, since it does get better at the expense of being more convoluted and makes you figure out what's going on instead of telling you explicitly. It's more plot, less romantic comedy. It also has a satisfying conclusion which makes the convoluted season worthwhile despite being slightly cliche. I'll probably add my opinion on the series later but need to edit it since it's one page already. ==
The mythology of the series is what I believe to be special about Shakugan no Shana. The whole idea and philosophy about existence is one aspect that distinguished this series from many others.

[Izayoi]

Originally Posted by finalfury

I do recommend finishing the third season if you watched the first two seasons, since it does get better at the expense of being more convoluted and makes you figure out what's going on instead of telling you explicitly. It's more plot, less romantic comedy. It also has a satisfying conclusion which makes the convoluted season worthwhile despite being slightly cliche. I'll probably add my opinion on the series later but need to edit it since it's one page already. ==
The mythology of the series is what I believe to be special about Shakugan no Shana. The whole idea and philosophy about existence is one aspect that distinguished this series from many others.

I watched the first season because I had no idea what I was doing. I watched the second season since I watched the first. Then I watched third three and it was gold. It made the previous two seasons worthwhile and distinguishes SnS from all the other series with the typical tsundere lead. I did read the LN though.

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

So, is Shana’s charm as a “cute tsundere girl” really that strong back then?

Maybe one day we will look back to K-ON and say...
Well this is an " Anime you hate but everyone seems to like?" thread. The other one would be Evangelion. I am sorry, I tried but I am not pretentious enough.

[finalfury]

Originally Posted by Izayoi

Maybe one day we will look back to K-ON and say...
Well this is an " Anime you hate but everyone seems to like?" thread. The other one would be Evangelion. I am sorry, I tried but I am not pretentious enough.

Never really liked K-ON myself either and another one would be Sword Art Online. There are others as well that I can't remember off the top of my head.

[Kameruka]

I already mentioned this one but...High School of the Dead. The only reason why lots of people go nuts for this one is because it is the closest anime can get to the critically-acclaimed TV series Walking Dead. I don't see what's the appeal on zombies in general. I can see why people can like ninjas and pirates but not zombies. Ninjas had interesting code of honor and pirates had cool rebellious attitude. Zombies had none of what make ninjas and pirates cool. Just rotting corpse craving for brains, which HSotD zombies don't have.

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by Kameruka

I already mentioned this one but...High School of the Dead. The only reason why lots of people go nuts for this one is because it is the closest anime can get to the critically-acclaimed TV series Walking Dead. I don't see what's the appeal on zombies in general. I can see why people can like ninjas and pirates but not zombies. Ninjas had interesting code of honor and pirates had cool rebellious attitude. Zombies had none of what make ninjas and pirates cool. Just rotting corpse craving for brains, which HSotD zombies don't have.

They might think the same... We don't want a hot chick becoming zombie food...

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by Kameruka

I already mentioned this one but...High School of the Dead. The only reason why lots of people go nuts for this one is because it is the closest anime can get to the critically-acclaimed TV series Walking Dead. I don't see what's the appeal on zombies in general. I can see why people can like ninjas and pirates but not zombies. Ninjas had interesting code of honor and pirates had cool rebellious attitude. Zombies had none of what make ninjas and pirates cool. Just rotting corpse craving for brains, which HSotD zombies don't have.

I doubt this... As far as i know HSotD was already there before walking dead became popular.

[Joyce_Steele]

My dumber part of me wants to mention ****** *** but my wiser part of me says mentioning that show, even just by its name alone would only increase its notoriety and makes more people even more interested on it. It already popular just for its controversial part alone rather than plot, characters, production qualities, etc. Regardless how bad I want to mention it but it safer to letting anyone know about that shitty show in first place.

So the thread is asking me "Anime you hate(or at least dislike) but everyone seems to like?" and I should say Starry Sky. "Hate" probably too strong word for this show but there is one thing I really hate about not because it popular(to the target audiences at least) but rather how it didn't get much criticism as it should. Where should I start? First the unlikeable heroine who just there of sake of being there, probably equivalent to loser, lonely geek for no reasons all pretty girls attracted to him in male-oriented harem shows. Second it's just a pure fanservice show for girls, proving that it just as shallow as male oriented ones. Hell even male-oriented harem shows are evolving and no longer centered on loser geek got pretty chicks theme like we saw in Live Hina days anymore.