Japan and Suicide

[IMSabbel]

Well, considering the other guy was banned, i have to step in into his position:

Suicide people are cowards, and i dont think its a sad thing to lose them. CLeans the society of its weak points.
(which might offset the "coward" part of the act, as its a positive thing generally.
Sadly, many/most people commiting suicide are quite egoistical in the way they ignore how they affect other people by acting so. Somebody living on his/her own, with no close relatives/friends that kills himself in a way that doesnt provide psychical shock for 3rd persons (like the train station scenario) cannot be critizied.

[zappater]

Originally Posted by incoan

And yea , what if death is Not fun?

Well then it isn't and that would be sad, but well life isn't that fun either is it?

So what I am trying to say is that commiting suicide just for curiosity (sounds sooo wrong to me )

Well it is just cause it sounds so wrong that I did write it, I find it interesting to how people react to so different ways of thinking. I also prefer to view things with a positive aspect rather then a negative one.

I don't think your parents\friends would find it fun that you commited suicide. That fact would make them suffer from grief...
is rather selfish

This part of your post I must say I find rather interesting, about suicide being selfish. Yes, I can agree, suicide can be rather selfish. To take your life cause you are having trouble, or cause you lost two legs and hate the thought about not being able to walk (just examples, no ill towards people commiting suicide for these reasons.) can be considered rather selfish. On the other hand, there is another way to look upon suicide as with most things. You can say that suicide isn't selfish, just to show an example and to not make this to complicated I will divide the way to die in only 3 ways.

1: Death caused by life. (or is it death? is it life pushing us away or death pulling us closer? who knows.) Like having a 10ton rock fall onto you and crush you :P or cause of that little breeze carried a virus and infected you, or of the simple cause, age.

2: Death by another being. Being killed by a animal, another human, a bear, it happens.

3. Suicide, to die by your own will and on your own conditions.

If you compare these then suicide can be seen as not being selfish.
As examples, way 1; being 85, sic, in pain and lying on a hospital bed and having your friends/family see you die.
Way 2; to have your friends/family getting a call from some hospital that have identified you from your teeth as you were found out in the forest having been killed by a bear, torn into pieces.
Way 3; Leaving a piece of papper where you say good bye to all your friends and say that you died happy and without pain as they find you dead in your bed from a overdose.

If you view it this way then I would say I find suicide to not be that selfish, and rather nice towards your friends/family. I know that I would at least prefer to know my friend took suicide and died with a smile on his face, with good health, being able to remember everything and in the way that he wanted to die (even if it is all a lie, lies can sometimes hurt less then the truth (I would chose truth before lie, no matter the pain but that doesn't matter)).
If you compare it to see my friend 70 years from now on, having a hard time remembering things, feeling pain in different parts of his body, rather confused and in vain die on a hospital bed, then I prefer the former.

In the end death will come to us all and we should all have the chance to end life the way we want to end it, and I know that I rather end my life 50 years from now while I am happy and clear in my mind then 70 years from now on when I am starting to forget things and being rather confused about the world around me. I find that to be a nicer way towards friends and family, and yes I realise that most people commiting suicide do so in vain.

We can only try to make the best out of it and please, don't take me to seriously about everything.

[JanthraX^]

Originally Posted by Circular Logic

Then you're seriously, seriously, screwed.

In general, I don't really think curiosity is a main reason for suicide... Anyway, my take is that suicide isn't a coward's option, but it is generally the worst option you can choose. 99.999% of times there's a way out of whatever predicament you're in.

but sometimes those paths out of it are very hard to find and see, and with no support =[

[arias]

Originally Posted by IMSabbel

Well, considering the other guy was banned, i have to step in into his position:

Suicide people are cowards, and i dont think its a sad thing to lose them. CLeans the society of its weak points.
(which might offset the "coward" part of the act, as its a positive thing generally.
Sadly, many/most people commiting suicide are quite egoistical in the way they ignore how they affect other people by acting so. Somebody living on his/her own, with no close relatives/friends that kills himself in a way that doesnt provide psychical shock for 3rd persons (like the train station scenario) cannot be critizied.

I think you are being way too ignorant here.

To some, being able to end their lives is an affirmative choice; especially if they are suffering from a lethal disease. By the first sentence I bolded, I assume that you don't support social welfare as well? Since it is after all a program to aid the unemployed and the needy, and it's not "cleaning" society of its weak points. Maybe you should reconsider your positions, learn a little more about depression and its biological basis, as well as get in touch more with the harsher sides of life.

Next, I think you are doing too much guesswork here. It would be more logical to say that most people who do commit suicide are those without any REAL people to communicate with; they are trapped by their circumstances and there seems to be no road to comfort, and any is merely momentary. This doesn't mean the suicidees don't have friends at all, it could be that they were "busy" during his depressed and needy period, or simply had other things to do. Only when they look back do they see it was really signs that he needed their support.

I'd say that people who have a good social base, who have a good emotional "anchor" in their lives are much, much less prone to suicide, and are not as you make it out to be, the majority of suicidees.

[Veritas]

Well, I think one should differentiate between suicide and euthanasia. If you have a chronic illness and there ain't no hope, then I think suicide by doctor is a wise way to go. If you're offing yourself because the world is too cruel, then I think you made the wrong choice.

I've been there. Having been depressed my whole friggin' life, and then having it get ramped up during my last years of high school, I was ready to call it quits. If all you see is bleakness on the horizon, then it makes sense to not want to endure it, and then die. Every day, I wake up tired, go to a boring job that pays crap, go home, shower, and go to bed. I thought I might as well kill myself, because that routine isn't living. If every day is completely joyless, and there's nothing that gives you any indication that the rest of your days aren't going to be exactly like that, then suicide looks like a pretty good way out. But knowing that my mom and brother and cats would be very sad if I were gone (which, in my deepest depression, I couldn't even understand), I hung in there through some major depressive episodes.

I would say to all those considering suicide, instead of killing yourself, find the lifestyle that will make you want to live. Society is very conformist; there's not much wiggle room for people who don't want to work for 40 years and retire. Thing is, that's everyone's comfort zone. It's what everyone else is doing, and striking out on your own, with maybe little or no support, is really scary. Scarier than suicide? Maybe for some, but at least you'll be doing what you want, instead of the daily monotony.

[ImperialPanda]

It's really rather simple.

Suicide = natural selection @ work

Those who are not fit to survive will not.

I think IMSabbel is correct.

Kudos to kj1980 tho, his posts were nonetheless... interesting. (to be politically safe )

[Eclipze]

Originally Posted by IMSabbel

Well, considering the other guy was banned, i have to step in into his position:

Suicide people are cowards, and i dont think its a sad thing to lose them. CLeans the society of its weak points.

Have you been watching too much GSD? Destiny plan seems to fit into your little "ideal" human beings.

It depends on the person who is commiting the suicide. sterotyping everyone who suicide as cowards is probably the most disgusting thing I've ever heard from these boards, even moreso than the "otaku madman(killer, pedo-rapist)" article.

If the "suicider" in question, has been, as mentioned, with a chronic illness, is it wrong the the person himself to decide to let go of his life? Are YOU going to tell that person that she/he is a coward? If you are, start doing some thinking on your little "ideals".

Of course, those that "deserve"(in a sense, very subjective) to be labelled as such would be people who are running away from their responsibilities. Example: A man who used up the company funds for his personal pleasure, and then when he gets caught, he takes his own life because he doesn't want to go to jail.

Is that a coward? subjectively, yes. Are all "suiciders" cowards? No. Stop that nonsense, please. Its a very insensitive statement.

And, who the hell are you to judge each person's value? By his productiveness? Bullshit.

Originally Posted by IMSabbel

(which might offset the "coward" part of the act, as its a positive thing generally.
Sadly, many/most people commiting suicide are quite egoistical in the way they ignore how they affect other people by acting so. Somebody living on his/her own, with no close relatives/friends that kills himself in a way that doesnt provide psychical shock for 3rd persons (like the train station scenario) cannot be critizied.

Now, I agree with this part.

Its quite subjective to the situation when judging which "suicider" is selfish. Plus, if a person is driven by external factors enough to even consider such an option, then the blame(not entirely) should be removed from him/her. A regular human being should NOT consider suicide unless there is a social problem, and in Japan's case, THERE IS.

Again, there is a sterotype being used. That "loners" are not selfish if they were to suicide compared to someone which family and friends....WTF?

That again, is utter bullshit type of sterotype. All of a sudden people with families are superior to loners?

...and to think that people are suppose to be equal in value.

[AnimeFangirl]

Suicide pacts, for those too scared to die alone: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4695864.stm
Well hey, it's better than killing other people.

[nh1]

Suicide pacts encourage suicide. If you're not certain you want to go through with it, don't be fooled by the "Come on! It's more fun if we do it together!". That'd be your life's stupidest mistake.

Don't mourn the death of one who commits suicide. If you have to mourn, do it over his/her life.

Those who commit suicide are selfish, but what about it? We all are. Our number one important person, is ourselves. You shouldn't be forced into using a buttplug just because a friend gave it to you. Likewise, you shouldn't be forced into living a life you never would've wanted in the first place. Anyone who demands something like that of you, is selfish.

Saying a suicidal should keep on living for your sake is selfish. Actually demanding it is simply wrong.

[Jaden]

holy shit @ your posts kj1980. don't know if i should cry or laugh...Japan sounds pretty corrupt I'm sure there's reasons for that, though.
about suicide...i dunno, my life is something that's definately my own, i could lose it any time i wanted to, so what's the rush? even if things are miserable, there's always the chance that something really awesome happens tomorrow that will make it all worthwhile.

[kj1980]

Originally Posted by Jaden

don't know if i should cry or laugh...Japan sounds pretty corrupt

Name me one first world economical power whose people are not motivated by a thing called capitalism. No seriously. It may not be rampant as in second-tier nations like Mexico, but you can't say the system is perfect. U.S., Japan, Germany, France, UK, Italy, Canada - the democratic system is stable and great. But you can't say that they are all perfect when they are a first world society driven by capitalism. Dig deep and you'll find a bunch of mess with the bureaucracy, pork-barrel projects, illegal toxic waste dumping, environmental issues, etc. etc. All you have to do is just read the newspaper or watch the news.

[kujoe]

I do believe that whether there are understandable circumstances or not—such as being eaten away by some terminal illness—suicide is ultimately dependent on choice. It doesn't matter whether one's loved ones understand the reasons behind such an act or not. And even if they would never understand it, that's not going to stop anyone bent on taking his or her own life. Suicide is suicide. To be primarily concerned with oneself for better or for worse is part of it. So yes, I also do believe it's selfish.

However, there is that thought of "having a lot of options but having no choice in the end" that comes to mind.

@kj1980 - With regard to that post of yours with the LDP and DPJ bickering... Interestingly enough, at some point during my stay in Japan, a friend of mine told me of how "Japan has a lot of rules but has no system"—or at the very least, the atmosphere felt that way for him. I do have to say however, that politics in my country is at least ten times worse than that.