Learning Japanese

[ganbaru]

Originally Posted by iLney

Next question:
申し訳ねえ。ボス。

How do you read that? (in reality). I can't seem to hear "shi wa" in there...

Moushi wake nee. bosu.

[Rembr]

Originally Posted by iLney

Thank you all
BTW:

だって月明かりがあるとはいえ、夜は夜、暗いことに変わりは無い。

What is it translated into?

Even though there is moonlight, night is night, there's no changing the darkness.

[Alchemist007]

Agh, I hate the english grammer words used to describe some things. Verbal compound gerund T_T yet the concept itself isn't nearly as formidable.

[iLney]

Thx all

Originally Posted by ganbaru

Moushi wake nee. bosu.

Uhm, no matter how many times I listen to it, it's always "Mo sha ke ne, bosu."
(male voice, from a movie I guess)

[Circular Logic]

Vowels often get elided together, particularly in casual/caricatured (i.e. anime) speech.

shou ga nai -> sha nai
sore wa -> sorya
sou desu -> sousu

etc.

[iLney]

"Often"?

Is there a list, a rule or something like that?

[Circular Logic]

Originally Posted by iLney

"Often"?

Is there a list, a rule or something like that?

Not really unfortunately It doesn't really hapen when people speak formally.

Other than that you'll just have to get used to it; it's not something that gets taught in textbooks realy.

You can often work it out if you think about it though. At least that's how I get most of them.

[aohige]

Well, first of all, all three examples Circular mentioned are diffrent in origin. That's why there's no uniform rule.

sha-nai is originally kansai dialect (as well as sha-arahen)
soryaa is standard (and not really modern) broken speech
and ~ssu is a very modern slang used by young people as abbribiation of "desu".
I don't know the origin, but it definitly was popularized among the youth in kantou first.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by Ryuou

Hardly any attention is placed on conversation, and thus, most Japanese people can't get enough practice with speaking and pronunciation. That's why English conversation schools are so popular, but I don't know how well they work.

From JET and other folks I've heard from -- the problems are:
1) not enough classroom time.
2) students are terrified of individual attention; they'd rather huddle in a group and form a consensus of the "answer" rather than just try free-form conversation at the individual level.
3) Many JET folk find they got a much better result by getting the students off-campus. Item 2 seems to be due to the typical classroom protocol of all their classes, not just English.

Japanese are frantic to find english natives who will help them. OTOH, its quite difficult to find Japanese who are willing to actually critique a non-native's attempts to get better at Japanese.... somewhat frustrating.

[aohige]

Originally Posted by Vexx

From JET and other folks I've heard from -- the problems are:
1) not enough classroom time.
2) students are terrified of individual attention; they'd rather huddle in a group and form a consensus of the "answer" rather than just try free-form conversation at the individual level.
3) Many JET folk find they got a much better result by getting the students off-campus. Item 2 seems to be due to the typical classroom protocol of all their classes, not just English.

Japanese are frantic to find english natives who will help them. OTOH, its quite difficult to find Japanese who are willing to actually critique a non-native's attempts to get better at Japanese.... somewhat frustrating.

I always took initiative in answering in English classes when I was in school.
Due to my experience living in US, I had far better knowledge of English than the teachers.

I was once told by someone who works for one of those English conversation class business that they wouldn't be interested in me teaching there part-time, because they want a caucasian teacher (so they can advertise LOOK WE GOT NATIVE WHITE DUDE to their clientele). This was quite a long time ago.
Which was absolutely ridiculous from practical point of view, considering that I am far more competent in teaching English speech lessons since Japanese and English are BOTH my native languages.
From this experience I learned that these classes are NOT interested in how well their students excel, just how many of them they can sucker into paying them.

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by Vexx

From JET and other folks I've heard from -- the problems are:
1) not enough classroom time.
2) students are terrified of individual attention; they'd rather huddle in a group and form a consensus of the "answer" rather than just try free-form conversation at the individual level.
3) Many JET folk find they got a much better result by getting the students off-campus. Item 2 seems to be due to the typical classroom protocol of all their classes, not just English.

I don't know - I hear the girls in Negi's class reading out loud all the time...

[Circular Logic]

On a completely different note, has anyone tried surfing 2ch for practice?

The amount of specialised vocab is >______________<

Though I suppose people surfing 4chan and the like must feel the same way :/

[Ryuou]

Originally Posted by Vexx

From JET and other folks I've heard from -- the problems are:
1) not enough classroom time.
2) students are terrified of individual attention; they'd rather huddle in a group and form a consensus of the "answer" rather than just try free-form conversation at the individual level.
3) Many JET folk find they got a much better result by getting the students off-campus. Item 2 seems to be due to the typical classroom protocol of all their classes, not just English.

Japanese are frantic to find english natives who will help them. OTOH, its quite difficult to find Japanese who are willing to actually critique a non-native's attempts to get better at Japanese.... somewhat frustrating.

Hmm...that second one is a big problem. Haha, yeah I know what you mean. It can get a little frustrating sometimes. Although I do have cousins that are all to quick to jump on my mistakes, haha.

[iLney]

Next question: (Thank those who helped me last times).

引っ越しの荷物もだいぶ片付きました

も?

[Quarkboy]

Originally Posted by iLney

Next question: (Thank those who helped me last times).

引っ越しの荷物もだいぶ片付きました

も?

It means "already" in this case. So translation:

The luggage/boxes from moving have already mostly been unpacked/cleaned up.

Generally: A mo B past tense means "A has already B'ed"

[Circular Logic]

Originally Posted by Quarkboy

It means "already" in this case. So translation:

The luggage/boxes from moving have already mostly been unpacked/cleaned up.

Generally: A mo B past tense means "A has already B'ed"

Are you sure you're not thinking of 'mou'?

I'd say the mo in this case either means a) also, as in 'I've also dealt with the luggage', or b) even, as in 'I've dealt with even the luggage'.

[Yukinokesshou]

Just a random curiousity...

Is there any difference in usage between 「やさしい」 and 「簡単」 or 「容易」? I know the difference between the last two - simple vs. easy - since they're loanwords from Chinese. I'd only asking about 「やさしい」... is it just the native Japanese equivalent of the more specific Chinese loanwords, or are there subtle distinctions in usage? Thanks!

[Raiga]

What does はず mean and how is it used exactly?

[Mystique]

Originally Posted by Raiga

What does はず mean and how is it used exactly?

Jgram.org
Bookmark it, make it your self study bible, it helps a hell of a lot.
Type in romaji the grammar point you want in the box at the top right and if it's in the database, a search result will appear.

But I'll copy/paste some of the 'hazu' explaination and I'm sure you can read the rest. ^^
http://jgram.org/pages/viewOne.php?tagE=hazu

Meaning: it should be so
Example: I expected him to come but ...
JLPT Level: 3
Category: grammar

Conjugation:

(plain form) + はず

イー形容詞：　高いはず　　→　高かったはずです。
i adj: Takai hazu = takattahazu desu
なー形容詞：　静かなはず　→　静かだったはずです。
Na adj - shizukanahazu = shizukadattahazu desu
名詞：　学生の　　　→　学生だったはずです
Noun: gakusei no = gakuseidattahazu desu
動詞：　話す　　　　→　話したはずです
Verb: hanasu = hanashitahazu desu

They gave the conjuction of the plain form in both the present and past tense. Now for a few examples:

来るはずだっだ
He was supposed to be here
易しいはずだったのに、試験は予想外に難しかった。
It was supposed to be easy, but the test proved to be unexpectedly difficult.
急須にもうお茶が残っているはずがない。
There cannot be some more tea in the pot.
(I've noted that hazu ga nai tends to have the nuance of 'it can't be such' (because there should have been something else))
バスはすぐ来るはずです。
The bus should be coming soon.

Hope that gives you an idea of the naunce of this grammar point, it kinda falls under 'should'.

[ACGalaga]

Originally Posted by Yukinokesshou

Just a random curiousity...

Is there any difference in usage between 「やさしい」 and 「簡単」 or 「容易」? I know the difference between the last two - simple vs. easy - since they're loanwords from Chinese. I'd only asking about 「やさしい」... is it just the native Japanese equivalent of the more specific Chinese loanwords, or are there subtle distinctions in usage? Thanks!

やさしい does mean simple, but (from my experience) it's usually used to mean 'kind' or 'gentle' etc. You use this when talking about another person.