2009-12-20, 00:49 | Link #4482 | |
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Brazil - São Paulo
Age: 31
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2. Because considering her gulible and naive personality, someone (Beatrice, or anyone who believes in witches) can definetely ask to cooperate. Jessica could've been forced to tell Battler to believe in witches. Maybe she was bein held at gunpoint. But yeah, we can't deny the possiblity that she's lying or if the phone call is a recording. |
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2009-12-20, 21:33 | Link #4485 |
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Join Date: Apr 2004
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About the names
Don't know if this has been discussed before but can any japaneese speaker confirm if the following deductions about the names and the loopholes that can apply are correct:
Battler Jessica Maria George Rudolf Krauss Eva and Rosa Are names made up by Kinzo in a weird japaneese spelling nobody else would use so are definately exclusive to the Ushiromiya family, are not the actual western names so Beatrice cant say George is dead and then claim she was talking about George Washington... none are these names a ramdom japaneese person not related to the Ushiromiya family can have Nanjo is a family name so when Beatrice claim Nanjo is dead she could be referring to someone else in Nanjo's family? Kannon and Shannon Are also names made up in Kinzo that no ramdom person in Japan should have, however they are not real names, we dunno know the last name of either so if for example they are Nanjos illegitimate children they could be counted twice, for example Beatrice could say Shannon is death and Nanjo [sayo] is dead while Dr. Nanjo is alive. We of course dunno know Kannon first name either so if it matches somebody else in the list it could be used for counting twice the same death. Kyrie Hideyoshi Kinzo Natsuhi Ghoda Genghi and Kumazawa Are normal japaneese names so when beatrice says Natsuhi is dead she could be referring to a ramdom person called Natsuhi in tokyo while the Natushi we know is alive |
2009-12-20, 21:54 | Link #4486 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Well actually it can't be George Washington because that "George" can't have his name written in Kanji, at best it would be in katakana.
The names of the Ushiromiya family members are pretty much unique, and I wouldn't be surprised if in the real world there is absolutely no one with most of those names, matching both the way they are written and the way they are pronounced. That however doesn't stop theories about the possibility of homonymous people in Umineko. We know that in at least one case (Battler) there is one, and that's the strangest name among everyone else. Personally I find the idea that Beatrice could use red in this way rather silly, but it is an undeniable fact that she herself used the non exclusivity of names as an argument to defeat Battler's red.
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2009-12-21, 02:06 | Link #4487 | |
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Join Date: Jun 2009
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What's more, if this is all a huge performance gone awry, it would have to be planned in advance if the rest of the family is playing along. So this theory would have to apply to not just Episode 4, but all the rest. I'm not really sure how to make this theory work. But maybe... Krauss and Natsuhi had planned some sort of crazy performance to create an opening so they could clear themselves of suspicion regarding Kinzo's death. Maybe Krauss'd even somehow clear himself of embezzlement. Bringing 'Beatrice' into the story would make sense for that, she could be blamed for pretty much anything and she can't defend herself since Krauss doesn't believe she exists. The servants were all in on it on some level or another, Nanjo is brought in to 'verify' times of death and whatnot, and Jessica was convinced by her parents to play along as well. Since Krauss has control of Kinzo's money, he sets up those 'delayed delivery' letters with the codes and keys for the money he's bribing his accomplices with, and everything is going according to plan... And at this point in the story, along comes a spider. One of the people in his conspiracy has their own plans, and during the first night while Krauss has someone appear as 'Beatrice' (this appears to happen in Episode 2 at the least), they attack, killing anyone that is still taking part in the meeting. And then... well, I don't really know. I'd guess that some of the servants might think this is all an act and continue with their roles. Or maybe the killer got to them. I can't really apply this to Episode 4 at all. Too many 'prisoners', too little time, too many bodies spread out all over the place. The order of deaths has been kept intentionally vague with one exception- we know Kanon died ninth, and we know that of 'Kyrie's group' (Kanon, Shannon, Nanjo, Kyrie and Krauss) he was the first to die. Thus, the other 4 were 10th or later. Battler of course was 18th (really, 17th but he didn't know that at the time). Maria must have died pretty late, so that leaves 2 deaths after Kanon died, and 8 before that are still uncertain. This assumes, of course, that 'Kyrie's Group' was as we were told. Maybe this is an indirect confirmation that Kyrie is the culprit and Kanon is working with her. We've been led to believe that Gohda and Kumasawa were in those empty positions after Kanon's death, but what if they weren't? If they fell among the first 8, who could take those places instead? George and Jessica? |
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2010-06-03, 07:06 | Link #4488 |
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Join Date: Jan 2010
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Sorry if this has been asked, and it probably has, but do we know what Ange saw at the boatman's house that caused her and those with her to react so strongly? It was worded as vaguely as could be possible and I'm assuming since 4 was still a 'question' arc it's something we're probably still being kept in the dark about but if someone has figured it out I'd love to hear it. Alternatively if it's something revealed in a later game PMing me about it would be great to prevent spoilers for others.
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2010-06-03, 07:38 | Link #4489 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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In the anime you clearly see a Sakutaro plush (or a lot of them? not clear) inside a bag.
there's been speculations about Sakutaro being actually a commercial plush and not an hand-made one. The issue is not totally resolved. There is a red used by Beatrice that claims that Sakutaro was made by Rosa, but it was interrupted. Some believe that the red should be considered valid until the very part that was blocked (which was "the only one in the world") Some other believe that the whole red truth should be considered invalid. In any case It can be said with certainty that Sakutaro is not the only one in the world, so what Ange saw in Kawabata's futon shop was most certainly a Sakutaro.
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2010-06-03, 09:04 | Link #4490 |
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Join Date: Jan 2010
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Wow. That certainly is important. I wonder... OHHHHH! So that's why Ange was able to produce the miracle of resurrection for Maria! At first I was thinking: man they should have mentioned something that important in the game, but now that I think about what happens when Ange meets up with Maria it makes a lot of sense. I'll have to go back and watch the anime again to see if there's anything else they put in there that I missed on my first watch.
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2010-06-03, 13:14 | Link #4491 |
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Join Date: Dec 2008
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It's revealed to be Sakutarou in one of the extra tips. Furthermore, given what the tip says, I believe that rather then mass-producing him, Rosa made a single new Sakutarou to give Maria, but died before she had the chance too. And that it was damaged in whatever event caused the mansion to be destroyed.
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2010-06-03, 13:26 | Link #4492 |
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Meta-Meta-Meta-Space
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I'm not sure this was presented well in the anime but in the game this whole idea of Ange finding a bunch of Sakutarous in a bag and then in a magic scene her representing that she revived him is a big clue on several things:
1. How 'magic' works. 2. How the story can introduce development for a character that is supposed to be dead. (Maria.) |
2010-06-03, 13:57 | Link #4493 | |
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Anti-Rosa was probably sold by Eva to another company or dismembered, in that case it is possible that the sketches that Rosa made to study Sakutaro's design were found by someone who then used them to make a series of commercial plushes. Or maybe it is Rosa herself who got the idea in the first place and what she gave to Maria was the prototype.
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2010-06-03, 14:30 | Link #4494 |
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: New Zealand
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Is Rosa's company really called 'Anti-Rosa'? If Anti were in Katakana, could it be read as 'aunty' instead? Something seems off about that particular name, and I think we would have gotten at least a small explanation for the weird 'anti'.
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2010-06-03, 20:52 | Link #4497 |
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Join Date: Mar 2010
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Its most likely been said already but.....
Made by Rosa for her daughter's birthday, and in the entire world, the only To me, it sounds like Rosa did make the original Sakutaro BY HAND, and decided that after seeing how happy it made Maria, Rosa may have mass-produced them to market to the world... And if we guess that the rest of the statement was "the only one made by Rosa." (now this is just a pure guess and hypothetical and only using the red to fill in the missing gap) because for all we know Beatrice was talking about the ORIGNAL body. The new body of Sakutaro had yet to be revealed to both Maria and Beatrice, so to Beatrice and Maria, Ange actually summoned the body of the original Sakutaro when she could've just as easily summoned the body she found in the futon shop >.> Maybe I'm completely wrong and just spewing garbage :x But that's just my 2 cents in... |
2010-06-04, 10:14 | Link #4498 |
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Belgium
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I have noticed something - it doesn't relate to what has been just discussed.
In EP1, wasn't it strange that for the first night, the schedules for the servants have been almost completely reversed? Only Gohda had the night shift at the mansion, while Kanon and Shannon had the night shift at the guesthouse. Kumasawa and Genji were ordered to stay in the guesthouse. This schedule change was due to Krauss' orders. I think the siblings and their spouses already began having their suspicions at that point.
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