2012-03-10, 00:56 | Link #961 | ||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 35
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I think that the assumption that you could actually "weaken" an otherworld persona by "dealing" with their issues is pretty suspect anyway. However much Saya encouraged Mato and made her feel better, she would probably need an army to actually kill BRS anyhow. For all we know, BRS emerged from a trauma Mato experienced in that past, and in her present life Mato is completely unaffected by it (it really seems like it). The idea that Mato actually has any issues is still complete speculation at this point anyway. Why do you assume Saya could do anything more just by talking? Quote:
2. If they even exist in the otherworld, it's because they're shouldering some other person's pain, so it's kinda unlikely that they'd be interested in joining together to protect Yuu (why the heck would they want to do that), or that they'd even be able to communicate in the first place. Quote:
Actually, the fact that BRS is trying to destroy the otherworld or something in itself should be a hint that she's a special or unusual existence, and that any of Mato's emotional burdens she's carrying might not be of the same nature as the others. I don't even know if Mato would really act any different if BRS had been killed earlier on in the story. The idea that Saya could somehow stop BRS's rampage in the other world by talking to Mato in the real world really just doesn't make any sense to me. BRS is an otherworld persona, so Saya fights her by creating other strong otherworld personas. It's as simple as that, an extremely logical course of action. |
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2012-03-10, 03:23 | Link #962 | |
King's Justice
Join Date: Apr 2004
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2012-03-10, 03:42 | Link #963 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 35
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So, what's wrong with giving them now? Even if Saya's actions were portrayed is pretty much evil and random, I did expect to be given a reason for them eventually. And now its there. Even if I understand Saya better now, it's not like this majorly changes my earlier impressions that she's screwing with innocent people and is still mostly an antagonist.
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2012-03-10, 04:09 | Link #965 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 35
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I'll admit that I couldn't take Saya seriously at all when she went said "I can't do that to Kuroi (i.e. kill her), she's just an innocent". I do think they could've handled Saya's character better. I just don't think it makes the writing incoherent or the story of the series as a whole irredeemably bad.
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2012-03-10, 05:36 | Link #966 |
is this so?
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Gradius Home World
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Watched episode 6 today.
Quite surprised that Saya isn't that bad of a person despite her methods, and Black Gold Saw is actually a protector of that strange world (Yuu's world?). Unfortunately, the crazed version of Black Rock proves too much for Saya to handle alone - it's good the other girl saved her.
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2012-03-10, 06:12 | Link #967 |
(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Amazing. I could heap so much praise on this episode, this series....everything is just fantastic. Sure, it's overly melodramatic, but this is easily capable of standing next to Madoka in terms of dark fantasy. To pull off so many emotions in one episode, so many plot twists, so many different thematic elements....just outstanding.
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2012-03-10, 17:53 | Link #970 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
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Saya's and Yuu's actions mostly. Their interactions, how they handle the changes that happened to Kohata.
The scene where Yuu asks Saya why she targeted Yomi was the biggest hint, which coupled with what both Saya and Yuu told Mato in the first episodes, was already leading to the "reveal" of Saya's original intent. Or maybe it is me. It wasn't really a shock. Then again, I had figured out most of Madoka's "socking revelations" in the first four episodes. Kyouko was the surprise, but not by much considering she was in the opening |
2012-03-10, 18:05 | Link #971 | |
Scribe
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Calico Towers, San Serriffe
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At this point my feeling is that the core of Saya's character is that she's not evil. Misguided, perhaps, and certainly placing the welfare of Yuu / Strength / the Otherworld way ahead of that of the girls in the real world (through guilt or whatever). But fundamentally she doesn't derive pleasure from driving the girls loopy - for her it's a necessity. So the cheap shot the studios took was to "paint her" as evil (to quote Jessica Rabbit - "I'm not bad, I'm just drawn that way"). OK - I can live with that, BRS certainly isn't the first anime / manga to do it. Mai, the Psychic Girl had an even more egregious example where a whole bunch of characters went from evil to good in the turn of a page (even how the characters were drawn changed). Personally, I'd have been perfectly happy to see Saya at least be conflicted about how she awakens the powers of the girls' Others. The fact that BRS spends most of her time cutting down all and sundry with no compunction was already suggesting that her role as "heroine" was far from clear. Similarly, if there'd been a few more characters in the real world then the resolution of who BGS' counterpart is could have been delayed, allowing a more complex sketching of Saya's personality without immediately revealing something about the Otherworld. As it is, with five main characters in the real world, and five in the Otherworld, the math ain't that hard to do (barring some complete Deus Ex Machina like "And BGS was Mato's mum all along!!"). But I'm nit-picking. For all the histrionics, bizarre character reversals and general derping, I'm loving the hell out of the series. And since Saya / BGS is now definitely not entirely evil I can feel justified in claiming her as mai waifu Now to watch IBRS getting facepalmed by Strength again...
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2012-03-10, 19:53 | Link #972 | ||
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: California
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Saya is in the counseling business for students to take advantage of the daily issues overly-emotional adolescents have in school. By tapping into these unstable children's psyche and prodding them to endure traumatic events, it unleashes their other-selves "true power". The motivation for Saya is to save Yuu who is supposedly trapped in the other world as Strength. However, Saya is combating BRS by sending Mato's closest friend through a mental breakdown in hopes of destroying BRS. The reason is because Saya says she will "destroy that world" and possibly Yuu as well, given enough time. But the one thing Saya avoids, is to cause Mato herself from going crazy. Because apparently, if she does, then BRS turns into IBRS, which gives her a power up? Yet, she has deliberately targeted people who are close to Mato (Yomi, and Kokhata), as well as giving Mato herself a scare (when Saya attempted to pretend strangle her). Nope, definitely not trying to provoke BRS by mentally screwing with Mato's mind there. But we still do not know how Saya's method to unleash the true powers of a person's otherself will result in her saving Yuu. When Yuu confronted Saya about Yomi's state, she responded saying that the "pain lasts for only a while" and that "hearts will heal the quickest when they are wounded". Is she claiming that BRS will end their suffering? So Saya is depending on BRS to kill a person's otherself to release them from their obsessions? How does that help Saya's goal to saving Yuu trapped in the other world? But this is what people believing in a coherent plot is driving at, so I don't know how this is making any sense. Now, in this latest episode Saya realizes in horror that Yuu transferred Mato's mind into BRS, right as she was done killing Dead Master. The sight of it causes Mato's to lapse into a catatonic state and "awaken" IBRS. In order to fix things, Saya tries to use BGS as a medium to communicate with Mato in order to regain herself. Yet, Saya has been depending on BRS to end the other character's suffering by releasing them/killing them from their obsessions. Yep, it's as clear as mud for me. Maybe someone can explain in detail on what the plot is.
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2012-03-10, 20:28 | Link #973 | |
Okuyasu the Bird
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Alberta, Canada
Age: 32
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And while we are making comparisons to Madoka Magica, I'd just like to say that I found the melodrama in Madoka just as forced and silly as it is here in BRS. =/
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2012-03-10, 20:48 | Link #974 | ||||
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 35
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The emotional traumas of people around Mato aren't enough to significantly harm her. The level of pain necessary to cause IBRS's awakening was something like Mato merging with BRS (i.e. all the past pain BRS had previously shouldered for her), and then witnessing her own self apparently killing Yomi. Saya's reason for choosing people "close" to Mato was nothing more than that they happened to have emotional wounds and were convenient; so long as they had pain which Saya could cultivate, she would have targeted anybody. Quote:
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2012-03-10, 21:28 | Link #975 | |
Scribe
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Calico Towers, San Serriffe
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I was going to speculate wildly at this point, but, you know what?, I'm not even going to try. I think the likelihood of me coming up with a rational explanation is about 0% currently - I'll let the series finish and the dust settle before trying to work things out. There are, however, a few things that probably deserve to be called out:
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2012-03-10, 21:33 | Link #976 |
Scribe
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Calico Towers, San Serriffe
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I'm in agreement with you on all but this bit. I don't think Yuu/STR wanted to awaken IBRS - that only happened because Mato merged with BRS after DM had been killed. I think Yuu's intention was that Mato would merge with BRS (in much the same way that Saya merges with BGS) during the fight, snap her out of "crazy eye" mode, and allow her to have some sort of dialogue with DM/Yomi (OK, major assumption that Yomi would even have been reachable at that point).
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2012-03-10, 22:42 | Link #979 |
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Join Date: Mar 2006
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Guess I'll side with the people here who are not very into this show. Asides from the pretty visuals and character designs I really don't see how can this even be compared to Madoka.
6 episodes in and I still don't get how exactly the world works. Saya's actions are too confusing... I also don't get the logic behind her actions(yeaaaah let's agitate the girls more so they pass their raaaaaage onto their otherworld personas and destroy the other world). Heck why would BRS even destroy the other world? So 2 episodes left and I'm still utterly confused... sure we might get all the answers later but as it is right now... yeah not really impressed atm...
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2012-03-10, 22:49 | Link #980 | |||||
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Location: California
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action, slice of life |
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