AnimeSuki Forums

lommm · 2007-03-24, 16:17

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!!

look, i no more believe ikkaku and yumichika to be gay than i believe ichigo and chad, ukitake and shunsui, yoruichi and soi fong, or aizen and gin are gay for each other.........

wait a minute, those last three couples are pretty questionable, aren't they? no, no. gin got with matsumoto. and shunsui likes women. so it's only soi fong and yoruichi. and yoruichi has uruhara. so that is just one way from soi fong's side. just keep telling yourself that. no matter how many hawaiian shirts chad wears, he can't be gay. he just can't.

or can he? and let's discuss shunsui. he's hairy. he drinks a lot. he's hyper masculine. i think he's a bear. and he's hot for ukitake. but then hawaiian shirt wearing chad comes along, hot peice of young man meat that he is and whoah! he's almost too much for shunsui....

anyway....

bleach has this kind of sincere comradery and bortherhood/sisterhood all over the place. it allows for the yaoi/ecchi heads to go nuts with their fan fics (yuzu + karin anyone?).

ikkaku seems less hot for yumichika than yumichika seems hot for ikkaku. even if yumichika is the pretty one.

for all we know, ikkaku could be hot for Kenpachi! that would be a weird love triangle! er... quadrangle, as Kenpachi is a bit of a pedophile, keeping Yachiru around the way he does....

@evenex: that is true. it's not a wiki manipulation. (just like how everyone makes gay jokes about 300 because the spartans were in reality known to be lovers/companions as well as comrades/warriors)...
but it is not something that has been discussed all that much in japan except for the last ten years or so, and even then only in academic study and art... to my knowledge anyway.

pothead21 · 2007-03-24, 22:27

yes... umm... i thought that too for a second. jesus christ i hope not!!!:P

seiji_kun · 2007-03-25, 01:31

the most funny part is in the manga flash back yumichika ain't part of it. So the anime made them look more gay.

Tho I don't think Ikkaku is gay cause he seems to be a guy that would rather bash gay men then bang them. Yumi well he's just a metrosexual, that's the only logical explanation I can come up with to be in Zanpakis 11th squad cause I can't think of such barbaric guys to get friendly with real gays.

lommm · 2007-03-25, 01:40

Zaraki's Squad could all be bears

well, a very sage moderator actually pointed out to me that the "romantic relationships" in bleach are so vague that we don't have enough evidence to actually say anything for certain on any of them. gin has never actually given us proof of his feelings one way oor the other toward matsumoto or aizen.

and the thing is... the only real romantiic relationships that we know anything concrete about are:

orihime loves ichigo
shunsui loved his wife

we don't even know anything concrete about ichigo and rukia's feelings toward each other. are they in love? do they just feel that they owe their lives to each other? are they long lost brother and sister? what's the deal.

nonetheless, all the evidence is there to say that yumichika+ikkaku=mansandwich

and that's a good point about the manga. i guess studio pierrot has a hidden gay agenda!

Zu Ra · 2007-03-25, 01:41

Same gender love is accepted practise among samurais . It would be better if people look at this thread in good humor rather than inching towards homophobia .

shenzu · 2007-03-25, 01:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by seiji_kun

the most funny part is in the manga flash back yumichika ain't part of it. So the anime made them look more gay.

Actually you see Yumichika for like a frame and a bit. Except he looks like a random girl.

Personally, I really dont care, but what ever happened to the days when guys can just be really close/mutual friends without being considered gay?

Plus I really think Yumi was just a character made to be a girl-looking guy+ a narcissist, which I know most people would mistake for gay.

0_o at the smaurais lol

kagato3 · 2007-03-25, 02:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by lommm

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!!

look, i no more believe ikkaku and yumichika to be gay than i believe ichigo and chad, ukitake and shunsui, yoruichi and soi fong, or aizen and gin are gay for each other.........

wait a minute, those last three couples are pretty questionable, aren't they? no, no. gin got with matsumoto. and shunsui likes women. so it's only soi fong and yoruichi. and yoruichi has uruhara. so that is just one way from soi fong's side.

Um there's some evedence that Yoruichi may be open to that kind of relationship with Soi Fong. Case in point the last few panels of this Omake by KT published in SJ.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kagato3

Spoiler for translation:

evenex · 2007-03-25, 03:00

True. But they can't go completley out of character
eg. Zaraki giving out flowers on Val day
eg. Orihime killing everyone in the Human World
It would be funny though

lommm · 2007-03-25, 04:14

that's a funny omake. and it's actually by KT, so at the very least, he was addressing the debate that fans have about Yoruichi X Soi Fon.

wasn't there an omake with Shunsui and Ukitake also?

Red Herring · 2007-03-25, 05:34

I think they're just buds...I mean if you're a straight dude and you're cool with some gays don't mean you take the buttsecks or anything jeeez. People can respect one another no matter how fruity the other dude is.

And I know all(or at least some) of you fellas think Soi Fon x Yoruichi is hot as your bare ass on summer sand so don't be hypocritical with a bunch of homophobia...two hot chicks is a homosexual relationship.

kagato3 · 2007-03-25, 08:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Small One

Well, Omakes aren't cannon and it's not unusual, that characters do things which are out of character, to make the things funny.

While the color bleach Omake's are questionable as to if they are cannon or not they never contadict anything from the manga, and quite a few of the Omake he has done are cannon, namely every one that has ended up in the volumes and the SWS one as it is tied in to one of the latest volume omake, and that one I posted is part of a series of omake focusing on the SWS.

Can't think of a Shunsui and Ukitake one but Shunsui has been in a few.

kagato3 · 2007-03-25, 12:32

I'm sorry but you are incorrect. All omake means is that they are extras to a seires. In some seires they are non cannon in others they are completely cannon.
Here is a list of known 100% cannon Omake for bleach: all of the specal chapters, Kon's socer game that nearly destroyed his plush body durring SS, all of the Bio's in the diffrent volumes, Karakura super heroes.

lommm · 2007-03-25, 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Herring

I think they're just buds...I mean if you're a straight dude and you're cool with some gays don't mean you take the buttsecks or anything jeeez. People can respect one another no matter how fruity the other dude is.

And I know all(or at least some) of you fellas think Soi Fon x Yoruichi is hot as your bare ass on summer sand so don't be hypocritical with a bunch of homophobia...two hot chicks is a homosexual relationship.

here here!

Tame · 2007-03-26, 13:32

Okay, I came across this forum and this thread by accident, but I've read parts of it and I feel I need to contribute. Here I go; I laugh at anyone who says Yumichika and Ikkaku are a couple or secret lovers or whatever. We've seen them together in both priavte in public, and apart from the fact that they're good friends, there's nothing to suggest they're lovers.

Just look at the way they look at each other, ie. They don't. You can tell when there's anything there, and there ain't. You can tell when there's unspoken sexual tension, and there ain't any of that either. Yumichika's just, like, Ikkaku's side kick. I think he just doesn't feel the need for glory quite like Ikkaku does so he lets his buddy take the lead, though he evidently likes a good fight.

One of them might be gay, maybe the other is, maybe any character is. A few people here seem to rely too much on stereotypes of people of certain sexualities. Yumichika looks like a girl, doesn't make him gay. And Ikkaku's a manly man, he could be gay, whatever. I doubt Kubo thought up what sexuality every one of his characters is, much less thought out 'secret liasons'. If you think that he did, then you're just an idiot, frankly. Excuse any forum rules I might be breaking whilst speaking my mind.

NoSanninWa · 2007-03-26, 14:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tame

And Ikkaku's a manly man

with eye makeup!

Lendial · 2007-03-26, 15:09

quite a few male characters have girly eyelashes/makeup/assesories

NoSanninWa · 2007-03-26, 17:39

And MOST of them have questionable sexuality.

(There are some exceptions so there is a chance that Yumichika and Ikkaku are merely bosom friends.)

Pippin4242 · 2007-03-27, 09:50

It's long been my opinion that Kubo Tite holds gay and straight relationships to be completely equal. Looked at without prejudice, Bleach seems to contain just as many straight as gay ship hinters. When I watch I see canon, implied canon and hinted relationships.

Canon Bleach ships:
Orihime>Ichigo
Isshin=Masaki

Implied Canon ships:
Gin=Matsumoto
Kira>Gin
Suifeng>Youruichi

Hinted ships:
Ukitake=Shunsui
Ishida>Orihime
Yumichika>Orihime

On the first level are the only two true canon ships of Bleach.

On the second level are three relationships which serve to make sense of the way the characters act around each other. If people would stop putting everything down to fangirlism, maybe we could examine the evidence for Gin=Matsumoto and Kira>Gin. Matsumoto and Gin both hinted strongly at having had some kind of reciprocal relationship when she held her sword to his throat. Kira is, it's fair to say, already vastly conflicted to the point of breakdown by the two ideals of loyalty which he holds- to the institution of Soul Society or to his friends (I mean of course Gin vs. Hinamori). I suppose people who ship exclusively for GinRan must attribute Kira's nervous breakdown solely to his conflicted position and nervous nature (we can see that as early as his Academy days Kira is twitchy, when his constant unconscious sheathing and unsheathing of his sword gets on Renji's nerves so much he yells at him to make him stop). However, Kira's utterly stunned reaction when Gin breaks him out of jail, and the way he calms down immediately when Gin's there (on at least two occasions) have always seemed to me to be at least as strong a hint as Matsumoto and Gin's exchange at the Soukyoku hill. Matsumoto and Kira see this in each other; although Matsumoto is naturally a heavy drinker, Kira seems to be a lightweight, but as soon as she accepts Kira's apology they start getting drunk and slagging off Gin together. "Who needs him anyway?!" Of course there's one more thing in support of Kira>Gin which anime-only fans will have missed; on the title page of book 15, Gin's thumbs are pressed against Kira's Adam's apple, with the words "I am only practising/Saying goodbye to you." I don't think it's a case of one or the other; I'd say that Matsumoto=Gin and Kira>Gin are intentionally implied as canon.

A brief note on my third level; I do believe that there are other one-sided attractions hinted at in Bleach. People don't seem to remember, but Yumichika actually displayed some sort of beauty-fuelled obsession with Orihime- he started chewing his own thumb when he saw her and seemed unable to talk to her, muttering "So... beautiful...". Ishida is implied on two occasions to feel some attraction towards Orihime; when she knocks out the two Shinigami and is changing, his opinion of her seems to change, and later when he makes a dress for Rukia, Orihime is marked out as being "completely wrong" to assume that Ishida has a romantic interest in Rukia. Oh, and as an example of Shunsui=Ukitake (it just seems to be hinted throughout), Shunsui's first canon words to him are the Japanese equivalent of "Hey, Casanova." [thinks: though in retrospect it did turn out in the omake, which I believe to be canon as they serve only to reinforce previous character traits, that Ukitake is particularly popular with the Shinigami Women's Association].

I guess what I'm trying to say is I really do think there's no space in Bleach fandom to brush off homosexual male ships as fangirlism, just as there are implied straight and homosexual female ships which are generally accepted as plausible within the fandom.

To give my actual opinion on the matter, I'd give Ikkaku=Yumichika as a third level 'hinted canon attraction' type ship; they seem to share a deep and unspoken understanding, and Yumichika is consistently content to hold back for the sake of Ikkaku's happiness; even when in Rukongai he seems to believe Ikkaku to be leading a meaningless existence he allows him to discover this for himself.

Oh, and one thing that seems to get forgotten in discussions like this- bisexuality happens, people!

*~Pips~*

lommm · 2007-03-27, 14:55

that's true. i would argue that there's more evidence for Yumichika being bisexual than there is for Ikkaku being bisexual or even straight for that matter.

though i would question whether Yumichika was obsessed with Orihime or just plain jealous because Kenpachi and Ikkaku were devoting so much attention to her and completely ignoring him. and for a true narcissist it is the worst thing ever to find someone whom you believe to be more beautiful than yourself. if eats away rather quickly at your self confidence. ...er... not that i would know, hehe.... i just .... er... guess...

nonetheless, i see your point as valid.

i would add the following to your tiers:

1st level:
Kon>Rukia

2nd level
Tatsuki>Orihime
Ishida=bounto chick

3rd level:
Ganju=Hanatarou
Yoruichi=Kuukaku

and with the gay/bisexual characters, i think everyone has forgotten the male convenience store manager who had the hots for Ganju...

and even though it's off topic, i would add that Karakura SUper Heroes is canon. There is lots of information within those episodes and omakes that is used in other episodes which are canon. and there is really nothing in those episodes which conflicts with anything that is canon.

btw, did anyone see the bishounen sexy jutsu technique that kishi put in the latest chapter of naruto? i'm waiting for the day when KT does the same type of thing in bleach.

scorpio516 · 2007-03-27, 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by lommm

1st level:
Kon>Rukia

I'd change that to Kon -> Any adult female with any boobs at all

And Add

Lv1
Chizuru -> Orihime

That one's pretty obvious

2007-03-24, 16:17	Link #21
lommm l'homme de lommm Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: 34 3 118 15	BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!! look, i no more believe ikkaku and yumichika to be gay than i believe ichigo and chad, ukitake and shunsui, yoruichi and soi fong, or aizen and gin are gay for each other......... wait a minute, those last three couples are pretty questionable, aren't they? no, no. gin got with matsumoto. and shunsui likes women. so it's only soi fong and yoruichi. and yoruichi has uruhara. so that is just one way from soi fong's side. just keep telling yourself that. no matter how many hawaiian shirts chad wears, he can't be gay. he just can't. or can he? and let's discuss shunsui. he's hairy. he drinks a lot. he's hyper masculine. i think he's a bear. and he's hot for ukitake. but then hawaiian shirt wearing chad comes along, hot peice of young man meat that he is and whoah! he's almost too much for shunsui.... anyway.... bleach has this kind of sincere comradery and bortherhood/sisterhood all over the place. it allows for the yaoi/ecchi heads to go nuts with their fan fics (yuzu + karin anyone?). ikkaku seems less hot for yumichika than yumichika seems hot for ikkaku. even if yumichika is the pretty one. for all we know, ikkaku could be hot for Kenpachi! that would be a weird love triangle! er... quadrangle, as Kenpachi is a bit of a pedophile, keeping Yachiru around the way he does.... @evenex: that is true. it's not a wiki manipulation. (just like how everyone makes gay jokes about 300 because the spartans were in reality known to be lovers/companions as well as comrades/warriors)... but it is not something that has been discussed all that much in japan except for the last ten years or so, and even then only in academic study and art... to my knowledge anyway. Last edited by lommm; 2007-03-25 at 01:35.

2007-03-25, 01:41	Link #25
Zu Ra ✖ ǝʇ ɯıqnɾl ☆ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Mortuary : D	Same gender love is accepted practise among samurais . It would be better if people look at this thread in good humor rather than inching towards homophobia . __________________

2007-03-25, 12:32	Link #32
kagato3 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006	I'm sorry but you are incorrect. All omake means is that they are extras to a seires. In some seires they are non cannon in others they are completely cannon. Here is a list of known 100% cannon Omake for bleach: all of the specal chapters, Kon's socer game that nearly destroyed his plush body durring SS, all of the Bio's in the diffrent volumes, Karakura super heroes. __________________ Higurashi: Its a bit like watching a trainwreck, except you keep getting to see different trains wrecking with roughly the same passengers, into a variety of different objects. Also, the trains are driven by monkeys. On LSD. Last edited by kagato3; 2007-03-25 at 14:18.

2007-03-26, 17:39	Link #37
NoSanninWa Weapon of Mass Discussion Fansubber Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: New York, USA	And MOST of them have questionable sexuality. (There are some exceptions so there is a chance that Yumichika and Ikkaku are merely bosom friends.) __________________ There's not that fine a line between willing suspension of disbelief and something just being stupid.

2007-03-24, 22:27	Link #22
pothead21 Davisanddroz.com Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Cleveland, OH	yes... umm... i thought that too for a second. jesus christ i hope not!!!:P

2007-03-25, 01:31	Link #23
seiji_kun Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Belgium, Antwerp Age: 39	the most funny part is in the manga flash back yumichika ain't part of it. So the anime made them look more gay. Tho I don't think Ikkaku is gay cause he seems to be a guy that would rather bash gay men then bang them. Yumi well he's just a metrosexual, that's the only logical explanation I can come up with to be in Zanpakis 11th squad cause I can't think of such barbaric guys to get friendly with real gays.

2007-03-25, 01:40	Link #24
lommm l'homme de lommm Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: 34 3 118 15	Zaraki's Squad could all be bears well, a very sage moderator actually pointed out to me that the "romantic relationships" in bleach are so vague that we don't have enough evidence to actually say anything for certain on any of them. gin has never actually given us proof of his feelings one way oor the other toward matsumoto or aizen. and the thing is... the only real romantiic relationships that we know anything concrete about are: orihime loves ichigo shunsui loved his wife we don't even know anything concrete about ichigo and rukia's feelings toward each other. are they in love? do they just feel that they owe their lives to each other? are they long lost brother and sister? what's the deal. nonetheless, all the evidence is there to say that yumichika+ikkaku=mansandwich and that's a good point about the manga. i guess studio pierrot has a hidden gay agenda!

2007-03-25, 03:00	Link #28
evenex Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Not telling!	True. But they can't go completley out of character eg. Zaraki giving out flowers on Val day eg. Orihime killing everyone in the Human World It would be funny though

2007-03-25, 04:14	Link #29
lommm l'homme de lommm Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: 34 3 118 15	that's a funny omake. and it's actually by KT, so at the very least, he was addressing the debate that fans have about Yoruichi X Soi Fon. wasn't there an omake with Shunsui and Ukitake also?

2007-03-25, 05:34	Link #30
Red Herring SPARTANS Join Date: Mar 2007	I think they're just buds...I mean if you're a straight dude and you're cool with some gays don't mean you take the buttsecks or anything jeeez. People can respect one another no matter how fruity the other dude is. And I know all(or at least some) of you fellas think Soi Fon x Yoruichi is hot as your bare ass on summer sand so don't be hypocritical with a bunch of homophobia...two hot chicks is a homosexual relationship.

2007-03-26, 13:32	Link #34
Tame Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2007	Okay, I came across this forum and this thread by accident, but I've read parts of it and I feel I need to contribute. Here I go; I laugh at anyone who says Yumichika and Ikkaku are a couple or secret lovers or whatever. We've seen them together in both priavte in public, and apart from the fact that they're good friends, there's nothing to suggest they're lovers. Just look at the way they look at each other, ie. They don't. You can tell when there's anything there, and there ain't. You can tell when there's unspoken sexual tension, and there ain't any of that either. Yumichika's just, like, Ikkaku's side kick. I think he just doesn't feel the need for glory quite like Ikkaku does so he lets his buddy take the lead, though he evidently likes a good fight. One of them might be gay, maybe the other is, maybe any character is. A few people here seem to rely too much on stereotypes of people of certain sexualities. Yumichika looks like a girl, doesn't make him gay. And Ikkaku's a manly man, he could be gay, whatever. I doubt Kubo thought up what sexuality every one of his characters is, much less thought out 'secret liasons'. If you think that he did, then you're just an idiot, frankly. Excuse any forum rules I might be breaking whilst speaking my mind.

2007-03-26, 15:09	Link #36
Lendial Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006	quite a few male characters have girly eyelashes/makeup/assesories

2007-03-27, 09:50	Link #38
Pippin4242 Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Wells Age: 34	It's long been my opinion that Kubo Tite holds gay and straight relationships to be completely equal. Looked at without prejudice, Bleach seems to contain just as many straight as gay ship hinters. When I watch I see canon, implied canon and hinted relationships. Canon Bleach ships: Orihime>Ichigo Isshin=Masaki Implied Canon ships: Gin=Matsumoto Kira>Gin Suifeng>Youruichi Hinted ships: Ukitake=Shunsui Ishida>Orihime Yumichika>Orihime On the first level are the only two true canon ships of Bleach. On the second level are three relationships which serve to make sense of the way the characters act around each other. If people would stop putting everything down to fangirlism, maybe we could examine the evidence for Gin=Matsumoto and Kira>Gin. Matsumoto and Gin both hinted strongly at having had some kind of reciprocal relationship when she held her sword to his throat. Kira is, it's fair to say, already vastly conflicted to the point of breakdown by the two ideals of loyalty which he holds- to the institution of Soul Society or to his friends (I mean of course Gin vs. Hinamori). I suppose people who ship exclusively for GinRan must attribute Kira's nervous breakdown solely to his conflicted position and nervous nature (we can see that as early as his Academy days Kira is twitchy, when his constant unconscious sheathing and unsheathing of his sword gets on Renji's nerves so much he yells at him to make him stop). However, Kira's utterly stunned reaction when Gin breaks him out of jail, and the way he calms down immediately when Gin's there (on at least two occasions) have always seemed to me to be at least as strong a hint as Matsumoto and Gin's exchange at the Soukyoku hill. Matsumoto and Kira see this in each other; although Matsumoto is naturally a heavy drinker, Kira seems to be a lightweight, but as soon as she accepts Kira's apology they start getting drunk and slagging off Gin together. "Who needs him anyway?!" Of course there's one more thing in support of Kira>Gin which anime-only fans will have missed; on the title page of book 15, Gin's thumbs are pressed against Kira's Adam's apple, with the words "I am only practising/Saying goodbye to you." I don't think it's a case of one or the other; I'd say that Matsumoto=Gin and Kira>Gin are intentionally implied as canon. A brief note on my third level; I do believe that there are other one-sided attractions hinted at in Bleach. People don't seem to remember, but Yumichika actually displayed some sort of beauty-fuelled obsession with Orihime- he started chewing his own thumb when he saw her and seemed unable to talk to her, muttering "So... beautiful...". Ishida is implied on two occasions to feel some attraction towards Orihime; when she knocks out the two Shinigami and is changing, his opinion of her seems to change, and later when he makes a dress for Rukia, Orihime is marked out as being "completely wrong" to assume that Ishida has a romantic interest in Rukia. Oh, and as an example of Shunsui=Ukitake (it just seems to be hinted throughout), Shunsui's first canon words to him are the Japanese equivalent of "Hey, Casanova." [thinks: though in retrospect it did turn out in the omake, which I believe to be canon as they serve only to reinforce previous character traits, that Ukitake is particularly popular with the Shinigami Women's Association]. I guess what I'm trying to say is I really do think there's no space in Bleach fandom to brush off homosexual male ships as fangirlism, just as there are implied straight and homosexual female ships which are generally accepted as plausible within the fandom. To give my actual opinion on the matter, I'd give Ikkaku=Yumichika as a third level 'hinted canon attraction' type ship; they seem to share a deep and unspoken understanding, and Yumichika is consistently content to hold back for the sake of Ikkaku's happiness; even when in Rukongai he seems to believe Ikkaku to be leading a meaningless existence he allows him to discover this for himself. Oh, and one thing that seems to get forgotten in discussions like this- bisexuality happens, people! ~Pips~

2007-03-27, 14:55	Link #39
lommm l'homme de lommm Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: 34 3 118 15	that's true. i would argue that there's more evidence for Yumichika being bisexual than there is for Ikkaku being bisexual or even straight for that matter. though i would question whether Yumichika was obsessed with Orihime or just plain jealous because Kenpachi and Ikkaku were devoting so much attention to her and completely ignoring him. and for a true narcissist it is the worst thing ever to find someone whom you believe to be more beautiful than yourself. if eats away rather quickly at your self confidence. ...er... not that i would know, hehe.... i just .... er... guess... nonetheless, i see your point as valid. i would add the following to your tiers: 1st level: Kon>Rukia 2nd level Tatsuki>Orihime Ishida=bounto chick 3rd level: Ganju=Hanatarou Yoruichi=Kuukaku and with the gay/bisexual characters, i think everyone has forgotten the male convenience store manager who had the hots for Ganju... and even though it's off topic, i would add that Karakura SUper Heroes is canon. There is lots of information within those episodes and omakes that is used in other episodes which are canon. and there is really nothing in those episodes which conflicts with anything that is canon. btw, did anyone see the bishounen sexy jutsu technique that kishi put in the latest chapter of naruto? i'm waiting for the day when KT does the same type of thing in bleach.