Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha Character Creation and Discussion (second reincarnation)

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by krisslanza

I pose a question for you Cadians. It relates to my own OC workings so

What does a Unison actually do? From what I've seen when Rein Unisons with Hayate she essentially serves as her "targeting computer". When Signum Unisoned with Agito she just became Death incarnate...

From what I remember, canon is not that clear about. it.

So does Unisoning like enhance all abilities or just specific ones? Or is this something would likely vary from mage to mage and device to device?

From my interpretation of the thing, flawed, tho. At first question, I'd say, the latter.

On the second question, I'd answer, device to device.

Now, you may want Kero or PhoenixG to help?

[Keroko]

I don't see why Cort's abillity is h4xxed at all. So he can copy the theory behind a spell, what does he plan to do with it? Just because he knows how to cast it doesn't mean he can. There's a few little requirements for certain spells, like the apropriate mana pool, or physical skills.

I mean heck, you can copy spells by looking at them and figuring out how they work. Subaru did it, even nine-year-old Erio did it. Several times.

Originally Posted by krisslanza

I pose a question for you Cadians. It relates to my own OC workings so

What does a Unison actually do? From what I've seen when Rein Unisons with Hayate she essentially serves as her "targeting computer". When Signum Unisoned with Agito she just became Death incarnate...

So does Unisoning like enhance all abilities or just specific ones? Or is this something would likely vary from mage to mage and device to device?

Unision helps a mage with calculation of data and regulation of the mana required for a spell. The reason Signum became Death Incarnate is because Signum is a close-ranged specialist. All her damage is focussed on one point in melee. However, with the aid of Agito, Signum was able to calculate and regulate her mana in such a way that her focussed melee spell became a wide-aeria long-ranged spell.

Basically, Unision Devices make mages faster, stronger and more versatile because they can use their mana better.

[ghazghkull]

Originally Posted by Keroko

I don't see why his abillity is h4xxed at all. So he can copy the theory behind a spell, what does he plan to do with it? Just because he knows how to cast it doesn't mean he can. There's a few little requirements for certain spells, like the apropriate mana pool, or physical skills.

Well it's the idea that the character now has access to the spell list, and could potentially be able to use it.

Plus think of it this way: what if the character was to take out a fair portion of the main cast, or any our OC's, and take their spell list, and then kill them?

Granted that not every spell under that character's belt is usable, but that character would have access to enough of them that they could dish out combos that could overwhelm it's opponent.

[Comartemis]

Do you see where we're coming from now? And why that's so unbalanced and haxxed?

...I do.

However there is the problem of disabling Nanoha in the first place. She's not the Ace of Aces for nothing, y'know. And this is her series, which gives her a certain amount of plot protection unless the individual author decides to kill her off, something I wouldn't do in my story, at least not permanently.

Also, now that I look at this, there's the matter of holding her after she's been disabled; you can't have an AMF and Struggle Bind running at the same time, which would demand more mundane bindings. And there's no way to stop her telekinesis so she can send out a call for help as soon as she's ambushed, or RH could do it for her.

Basically this spell's usefulness is limited to an anti-mook weapon. The CCs are generally too competent and/or teamwork oriented for this to work on them very well.

Granted that not every spell under that character's belt is usable, but that character would have access to enough of them that they could dish out combos that could overwhelm it's opponent.

And therein lies the key to his strength. While the cyborg in question isn't especially powerful (B-rank, maybe A at best), he's drained so many mooks and weak adversaries that he has an arsenal of B-rank and lower level spells which allows him to keep pace with AAA-ranks and higher just by virtue of being so completely unpredictable; there's no telling what he'll pull out of his bag of tricks next.

[ghazghkull]

Originally Posted by Comartemis

...I do.

However there is the problem of disabling Nanoha in the first place. She's not the Ace of Aces for nothing, y'know. And this is her series, which gives her a certain amount of plot protection unless the individual author decides to kill her off, something I wouldn't do in my story, at least not permanently.

Also, now that I look at this, there's the matter of holding her after she's been disabled; you can't have an AMF and Struggle Bind running at the same time, which would demand more mundane bindings. And there's no way to stop her telekinesis so she can send out a call for help as soon as she's ambushed, or RH could do it for her.

Granted, granted, that my example is an extreme case.

But you do get the idea right? What if your character managed to take out say...the Forwards in rapid succession, before anyone could help them? That's the spell set of four different mages under one belt. That is still something fearsome to contend with, and would horribly alter the balance of power, since we're talking about mages that are approaching A-rank in power.

Now although yes taking their abilities does not immediately equate to A-Rank, but considering this is a Cyborg, she has a much more powerful processing rate than the human brain, and also a much more active storage memory that can be accessed than a regular human. Therefore, not only would she have access to their own tactical training and experiences, she would also be able to start equating the various spells she's obtained into her strategy to create a number of possibilities.

Basically, a Cyborg with an extremely finite number of weaknesses, because all those spells would cover the majority of the weaknesses.

[Tk3997]

Originally Posted by Sheba

His combat cyborg could copy a full spell list from a target. If he got his hand on a mage, he could then kill the mage and fcking get away with it. That's the problem tk have with skill copy characters, they never can be balanced, it's either too weak and useless or too versatile and imba.

Ding, ding, ding! Which is why I asked him repeatedly what vital point this skill would serve in the overall character my point and what he seemed to be missing was the IMO the skill couldn't be balanced and that he ought to seriously consider WHY it was so important to begin and instead consider alternatives. Another issue is that most of the "disadvantages" are situational rather then inherent and with the plot on his side even the limited power had the potential for rampant abuse.


Also the entire thing begins at 2:46 in the logs for the 28th for anyone interested.

Originally Posted by Sheba

And ffs, don't twist the irc channel into the fcking Patriots! That's what we are not! Hell, 70% of the IRC is like Aaron going swirly, kriss being the Evil Yakyuken Mabinogi Overlord, ghaz biting people for no reason, Kha cooking more Khrack, tk and Goose nerding over Macross and Saint mumbling about his own creations. And Shouryu and SpaceBrotha being pranksters.

Acutally that's more like 90% really it only seems to get grumpy when Coma is around... wonder why.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Comartemis

And therein lies the key to his strength. While the cyborg in question isn't especially powerful (B-rank, maybe A at best), he's drained so many mooks and weak adversaries that he has an arsenal of B-rank and lower level spells which allows him to keep pace with AAA-ranks and higher just by virtue of being so completely unpredictable; there's no telling what he'll pull out of his bag of tricks next.

*shakes head* I don't buy this. B-rank spells are B-rank spells, just having a lot of them doesn't make him equall to a AAA-rank mage. Unpredictability doesn't reach that far.

Though I am curious, why do you want your character to have such an abillity?

[ghazghkull]

Originally Posted by Keroko

*shakes head* I don't buy this. B-rank spells are B-rank spells, just having a lot of them doesn't make him equall to a AAA-rank mage. Unpredictability doesn't reach that far.

Though I am curious, why do you want your character to have such an abillity?

Now that I think about it....that is a question I actually never considered!

So I'll ask as well: "Why do you want such an ability?"

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by ghazghkull

Now although yes taking their abilities does not immediately equate to A-Rank, but considering this is a Cyborg, she has a much more powerful processing rate than the human brain, and also a much more active storage memory that can be accessed than a regular human. Therefore, not only would she have access to their own tactical training and experiences, she would also be able to start equating the various spells she's obtained into her strategy to create a number of possibilities.

That's grasping, and innacurate grapsing at that. We saw no such awesome tallent in Subaru (who actually has trouble with stuff that require thinking).

Cyborgs are more powerfull physically, not mentally.

[ghazghkull]

Originally Posted by Keroko

That's grasping, and innacurate grapsing at that. We saw no such awesome tallent in Subaru (who actually has trouble with stuff that require thinking).

Cyborgs are more powerfull physically, not mentally.

Well I'm assuming that's how Comart's Cyborgs are operating...wait....

Oh crud! I'm thinking Android!

Cyborgs are still organic with mechanical components ><

[Comartemis]

I'll have to cut this short because I'm about to have my connection cut off for a while, but the original idea was that of a stalker walking the streets of Kranagan and attacking young women for reasons unknown. Vivio/Iris/whoever gets assigned to take him down, and his spell list makes him quite the adversary. Depending on how the story goes, he either gets befriended and atones or turns out to be the Big Bad and bites the dust in the end.

This was more of a concept I wanted to develop and then set aside until I found a use for it than an idea I had fully fleshed out.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Tk3997

Acutally that's more like 90% really it only seems to get grumpy when Coma is around... wonder why.

Maybe 80%, 10% of grumpy I may have missed when I was sleeping and 10% of DEAD chatroom time. It's usually happens when the local nutcases, like Kha, left the room while euro folks are busy doing rl related stuff like eating or cooking.

[FlameSparkZ]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Nope, that ended with me mentioning a possible blockade in Koji's winning streak, which never got off the ground. This is an 'old friend' though he does cause some chaos for Koji in the first chapter, but then, no harem is complete without a member who likes to bring chaos. :3

Do refresh my memory

Originally Posted by Keroko

Pretty much, which is why I need to know what he can and cannot do. Whether he has is heartweaver powers is a very important point in that.

Oh...that...well, yeah the time they where in the academy was before the incident in the icy world
So...no Heart Waver

Originally Posted by Sheba

Spoiler for Superior Rabbit:

USB called dibs on her tho.

*warps away*

[Kha]

What an explosion! I'm used to backlog, but not one generated by ferocity! oO

Originally Posted by Comartemis

Fair enough, when you put it that way it does make a lot more sense.

On a completely unrelated note, I have two questions for the general public:

1) Does anyone have any believable ways to get a six-year old Vivio into the Outer Rim, most likely via a faulty teleport spell?

2) Has anyone done ports of the Dirty Pair?

The first one is closely related to the background inherent in the second. Rather than have Vivio and Iris meet on a mission when they turn twelve, I'm thinking of getting Vivio and the Aces into the Outer Rim and meeting Iris on the streets. Through a combination of special circumstances, Iris becomes adopted by Fate and grows up as Vivio's surrogate sister....

....but on entering the TSAB Armed Forces after having spent a good deal of time training under their respective moms, Vivio and Iris wind up with a Kei and Yuri reputation; as Enforcers, they literally cannot end a case without something blowing up along the way. Much hilarity ensues and their entire history together has a distinct Slayers feel to it.

1) ...um Warp travel? Because she's the Kaiser and thus is able to bend the warp to her will?

But really, that's waaay faster than a TSAB battlecruiser, and has the range of a mobile platform. To do that you definitely need external aide and not a blind jump, unless she jumps into a wormhole and somehow survives.

2) Don't think so.

Originally Posted by Keroko

You should. I find it very enjoyable to learn more of the world. It makes some of the quests much more satisfying as well.

4450g. Not long more!

Originally Posted by Keroko

I won't even reach that one. T_T

Oh dear.

Originally Posted by Keroko

Nya? No, no, Keroko's type isn't a whispered. Whispered have knowledge of black technollogy, Keroko's type is the oposite, they have advanced physical capabillities. Gah, I should remember the name I thought for her type. >_<

...Extended? Evolved? Awakened? Blessed?

Originally Posted by Keroko

*sigh* now there's one retcon I'm slightly less comfortable with... I rather liked the Blood Knights draining the light for their own purposes.

Well its because of the supposed power of a Naaru. How does a Naaru get subdued? The Wiki page regarding all the conspiracy theories is full of counter and counter-counter and counter-counter-counter arguments, so you can't exactly say its a retcon, just Blizzard keeping you guessing.

Though I'm thinking its a multiple rendering of factors. M'uru is playing the role of Judas and Jesus mixed together, and knows it very well. At the same time, due to his darkening, he is weaker than the other Naaru in the Light but growing stronger with the Warp/Fold/Shadow, sliding towards becoming a Quera. The Blood Knights were able to subdue this weaker Naaru (who is neither here or there in strength), and drain his Light for their own. And since it's Keikakudoori, the other Naaru don't go flying through the Silvermoon portal to save their comrade.

And M'uru damaging Silvermoon equipment possibly trying to break out? Getting drained does hurt, and his growing Chaos will conflict with his usual makeup, and can suffer the Naaru equivalent of "hot flushes" due to hormonal imbalance. Also, given the principle of Keikakudoori, I believe M'uru could be acting in those instances, and playing to the megalomaniac tendencies of the Blood Elves, further increasing their desire to control him and become even more attuned to the Light.

As for the draining, I believe it accelerates the process M'uru will undergo before turning completely dark, and with a catalyst transform into a fullblooded Naaru of even greater Light than A'dal.

However, the process of doing so has a very large risk of a Chaos God being born, and with Kael'thas' meddling it increases so much. And that's where YOU, the one decked out in T6 comes in. Kill Entropius while whatever's left of M'uru is supressing him, before the Chaos God can take his first real breath!

After that, it's resurrect on the 3rd Day, redeem the Blood Elves, and in doing so cement them in place of the Army of Light.

Jesus anyone?

Originally Posted by Keroko

Ces-what?

Clerics, in Naaru language.

Originally Posted by Kyral

Hm... I wonder why Keroko has not an avatar like this one xD



(Ah well... I was to enthralled making my avatar that I made this one too...)

That's awesome! Now I need a chibi Erio avatar to even match.

Or should I just use Kha's Ranma form?

Originally Posted by Keroko

Kha is going to object to Fate though.

I won't object to Fate, but it will be AU to my works. Not that it matters really, almost everything is partially AU here.

Originally Posted by Keroko

Right. Noble. My fault. Anyway, it still means you're giving Fate a father, and on rather vague terms as that. Needless to say such information is rather begging for details.

I'm looking at what Fate has to offer, but so far, I'm still sticking by Zone, because of all that lore created around him.

Originally Posted by -Fate-

Very true. But since it matters to me a lot, I have to get rid of the vagueness of Relliant being Fate's father. Er..wait, if you are taking about explaining more about the background of Relliant, Alicia and Precia as a family then I already have that info in my head. I'll post it later once my head ache disappears....

P.S.

The contents of the letter will be posted in the actual fanfic chapters. Revealing information out of the blue kinda beats the purpose of the chapters itself.

Which is why I'm still waiting to make my decision. :3

Originally Posted by Keroko

Agent Keroko (New Dominion): Nanda? Psycho girls? M'kay, shoot first. Gotcha.

Private Keroko (FMP): *cracks knuckles* Finally! Excercise!

Sorceress Keroko (Slayers): One Dragu Slave will do.

Keroko-kun: I'd hate to be the yandere girls...

Agent Keroko (New Dominion): You say something?

Keroko-kun: Not a word.

Kaa: (peruses the latest terabit of data) You don't say.

Mirii: Kaa? Surprised? Usoda!

[Wild Goose]

Comartemis, I want to state here that TK was flat out refusing to let you keep your haxxed linker core drain and spell copy. I on the other hand was willing to let you keep it...

...just with enough heavy restrictions as to make it practically uselesss.

Sort of like how the Royal Navy dealt with a guy who was a Satanist; they slapped so many restrictions on him and essentially kept him from practicising his rituals and shit aboard ship, effectively turning him into an Atheist.

If you want to steal the spells, the most I'll go is that your charecter can steal the spells, but he can't use them. Why?

1st) He's a cyborg, and as I recall you mentioned he's a pure cyborg. Combat Cyborgs are limited to IS-only, as opposed to Type-0s which can use IS and Magic. Think of the Combat Cyborg as a Wintel machine, while the Type-0 is a new snazzy Macbook that runs Mac OS X AND Windows. Thus while he can copy the programming code for the software he can't use the spells because he doesn't have the hardware setup for running magic.

2) He can't use the spells at all without weeks or months of debugging, because Combat Cyborg IS code and spellcraft code is written in seperate languages. And lets not get into the fact that higher-level mages essentially write their own code and the Devices probably encrypt the code so that you can't really steal stuff.

3) Rein Eins was a fucking Lost Logia. Any atttempts to equate your copyskill with Rein Eins will be mercilessly shot down by those of us who grieve for her.

4) You can keep the skill. Just be ready to have your linker core explode from the stress of copying and absorbing people's linker cores. Remember, you aren't The Book with 666 pages of empty storage space.

Actually I really really like stipulation 4. I'm surprised nobody brought up the fact that Rein Eins could do so because she was a fucking Lost Logia with lotsa pages. Normal mages or Cyborgs would blow up from trying to shove in all that power.

[Comartemis]

1st) He's a cyborg, and as I recall you mentioned he's a pure cyborg.

...wait, what? I don't recall ever saying he was a pure cyborg, Goose. I remember touching on the idea of pure cyborgs having linker cores and thus theoretically being able to use ISs and magic independently of each other, but I never said the cyborg had to be one of Jail's.

The cyborgs using magic bit may have been a bit of a brain fart, though; I've also been considering having Cinque take a few levels in 'mage' and supplement her demolition abilities with illusion magic and similar abilities to enhance her functions as an infiltration expert, but that's a completely different ballgame.

Just be ready to have your linker core explode from the stress of copying and absorbing people's linker cores.

That's the core itself, Goose. I'm only copying the spells, not the power behind them. Thus the only thing that gets 'uploaded' is knowledge of how to use the spell. And not very well, either; it's up to the cyborg to master the spells through rote study, trial and error, and lots and lots of practice.

[Kha]

Actually Goose, how do you know that Combat Cyborgs can only have IS? They could have latent Linker Cores, like Nanoha before Raising Heart came along. Just want to clarify before I step on another mine while chasing plot.

[Comartemis]

Latent nothing; everyone has a linker core, it being an organ in the human body. What determines magical aptitude is how strong your core naturally is.

Unless Jail went out of his way to remove the linker cores from the Numbers, they should in theory be perfectly capable of using magic as well as their ISs, so long as they ditched any AMF defenses they had, like Cinque's shell coat.

[Wild Goose]

Originally Posted by Kha

Actually Goose, how do you know that Combat Cyborgs can only have IS? They could have latent Linker Cores, like Nanoha before Raising Heart came along. Just want to clarify before I step on another mine while chasing plot.

The fact that the whole point of the Combat Cyborg project was to create a massproduced army of mages regardless of whether they had such things as linker cores. We only see the two Type-0s using IS and magic which would imply that what makes the Type-0s special is the dual system use, and something Jail was interested in; if the Numbers could dual IS and Magiv capturing Ginga for study and brainwashing wouldn't have been a big deal.

I'd comment on this whole drama but I have other things to do today.

If ark wants to comment or anything, feel free to do so; I'm starting to have more appreciation for your POV after trying to SOD Macross Frontier and figure out wtf the humans still use projectile gatings in 2059.

Still don't mean I don't think you're an ass, but meh, we're both stubborn bastards.

EDIT: The whole problem a lot of us have with Comartemis is that he's an ass and a stubborn mule who rubs everyone the wrong way and persists in doing so despite being told to stop, plus his statements that he spits on everything OC stands for and how he's so dismissive of OC and yet wants to be accepted here.

If you're going to keep on bitching and whining, Comartemis, then leave. Nobody's forcing you to stay. Yes this is harsh. But to quote: "Why should we bang our heads/Against the walls of each other?/I will sit and wait for the bell to ring."

[Tk3997]

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

The fact that the whole point of the Combat Cyborg project was to create a massproduced army of mages regardless of whether they had such things as linker cores. We only see the two Type-0s using IS and magic which would imply that what makes the Type-0s special is the dual system use, and something Jail was interested in; if the Numbers could dual IS and Magiv capturing Ginga for study and brainwashing wouldn't have been a big deal.

I'd comment on this whole drama but I have other things to do today.

If ark wants to comment or anything, feel free to do so; I'm starting to have more appreciation for your POV after trying to SOD Macross Frontier and figure out wtf the humans still use projectile gatings in 2059.

Still don't mean I don't think you're an ass, but meh, we're both stubborn bastards.

EDIT: The whole problem a lot of us have with Comartemis is that he's an ass and a stubborn mule who rubs everyone the wrong way and persists in doing so despite being told to stop, plus his statements that he spits on everything OC stands for and how he's so dismissive of OC and yet wants to be accepted here.

If you're going to keep on bitching and whining, Comartemis, then leave. Nobody's forcing you to stay. Yes this is harsh. But to quote: "Why should we bang our heads/Against the walls of each other?/I will sit and wait for the bell to ring."

Goose this really just isn't helping it's not going to change him or solve the issue, but it'll probably make it even more flamey save the trash talking for IRC if it has to be done please this crap is fouling the thread enough as it is.