(L) Yu Yu Hakusho

[NoSanninWa]

To be honest, I would probably appreciate the "next episode" segments more if I bothered to watch them. I'm pretty hyped for the next episode without watching it, so I just... watch the next episode immediately if I still have time. I don't need the announcer to convince me. The ones I watch are well done though.

There is actually a lot more thought going into these battle than with other shows like (cough) Bleach. I really appreciate that, though more than a few battles are won in "Saint Seiya style" where the protagonists simply power up because they've used up all their strength and they're about to die. I want to see people win with their powers. Refusing to die though sheer willpower seems a bit like cheating to me. (Yeah, I know the genre's tradition of exceeding limits though determination, so don't point it out.)

Spoiler for episode 42:

An example of that "Saint Seiya style" was in episode 42 where Kuwabara is about to die. Literally, die. Then Yukina arrives at the arena and calls his name. He immediately turns the battle around and wins. A moment before he could not call his reiken, but now he simply summons it using his life force. I could practically hear him calling out, "Athena!"

[wingdarkness]

^No...

I didn't mean the episode preview (which the characters do), I meant the part at the end of each episode where the scene becomes a portrait and the anticipation narrative begins...It's really some of the best in all of anime..It's something small but I love it....

[NoSanninWa]

Ah. That. It is kind've cool, though I'm already pretty fired up to see the next episode and I'm afraid that I only really pay attention to it when I don't have enough time to see another episode. I'll have to pay more attention to it in the future.

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by Nightengale

Yu Yu Hakusho had many aspects seen in Hunter x Hunter that made it rivettingly great.

That mostly because The Author of Hunter x Hunter is the same as Yu Yu….Togashi –Sama

----

And Just as NSW, I’m also starting to follow YU YU, I had this series around a year inside my list of Series to follow, And now I have My hands in it, but Im more a Manga reader, So, that’s what Im doing, reading from YuYu Manga.

I'm about the part were Uramshi begins a Tournament hosted by a Very powerful old Lady (don’t recall her name) My impression are as expected, so far excellent, as I did not expected anything less from The creator of Hunter x Hunter, now let see, if this Series surpasses HXH.

NSW, You are making me nostalgic everytime you mention Saint Seiya, I have seen a lot of series…But none has beaten Saitin Seiya as my All time Fav.

[Renji]

Having watched Hunter X Hunter, i found that the guy that made it also did Yu Yu Hakusho, ive just recently bought the whole Yu Yu Hakusho collection + movies, alike Hunter X Hunter its awesome, is there any where specific that you should watch the movies during the seires, or are they stand alone.

[Nine Devil]

Toguro is

Spoiler:

B class lol

I don't like the story after the Dark Tournament saga till now.

Spoiler:

Whats the deal with Territory users, and Yusuke using 30 percent of his power to a mere human with a territory. 30 percent should have blowed the guy to bits.

I hope it will get better

[kujoe]

The one thing I don't like about Yu Yu Hakusho is that after Dark Tournament arc (is that what it's called?), everybody seems to have "leveled down" in terms of power.

It's like Dragonball Z (Yes, it's part of my childhood for better or for worse...), where everybody seems to have gotten "weaker" after Freeza. The portrayal of the battles became inconsistent—as if the characters had to be powered down for the sake of the new bad guy. But I guess that's to be expected.

All in all, I would call this series a "classic" from my point of view. It's one of those shows I would look back on with a fond sense of nostalgia.

[NoSanninWa]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

didn't mean the episode preview (which the characters do), I meant the part at the end of each episode where the scene becomes a portrait and the anticipation narrative begins...It's really some of the best in all of anime..It's something small but I love it....

I've been paying attention to this ever since you brought it up. I can't say that I'm excited by the narrative, but I really love some of the background pictures. Some of those pictures are really dramatic and intense. I wish I could see what you like so much about the narrative which seems rather stock to me.

[Nine Devil]

NoSanninWa, how far are you know? I'm at episode 79

[Nine Devil]

Finished this one, the end felt really rushed.

[wingdarkness]

Hmmm, wondering what arc you're on now Wa?

[NoSanninWa]

I finished the Dark Tournament and have been taking a break from YuYu Hakushou while I acquire more DVDs.

I quite liked the end of the Dark Tournament, though I have a few complaints.

First of all, the power level is starting to encroach on DBZ. It is rather a shock that these characters whose powers were so minor back in the first arc are now destroying the arena through collatoral damage because their abilities are just too huge. I prefered it when their powers were more anti-personel instead of anti-army. But I can live with that now that I am readjusting my expectations.

More of this commentary requires spoiler tags for the sake of new viewers.

Spoiler for end of Dark Tournament:

I was rather upset that they brought back Genkai from the dead. I feel that in fiction death should be considered final. Otherwise you cannot take it seriously enough. "Oh dear, Goku died... again. Big deal." By bringing back Genkai, I cannot be properly upset if someone else dies. Any death might get reversed now so it isn't as big a problem. I know that Genkai was only brought back as the reward for a great accomplishment, but there may be other methods as well. At least I know that the author can make a method any time he wants to reverse a death.

The there was Toguro not being a bad guy. He murdered hundreds (thousands) in the arena without even blinking. It seemed a bit forced that he only pretended to kill Kuwabara. Judging by all the other people he killed, I would expect him to kill one more human being without blinking. Whatever his reasons and regardless of his self-hatred, he was a very bad guy.

With that out of the way, now for some good things about the end of the arc. The fights were unbelievably kick-ass. The backstory between Genkai and Toguro was very interesting. Actually, I was very impressed that Genkai herself was so much more than the stock "wise and crotchety old master" character that I originally took her for.

And most importantly, all of the characters have grown incredibly over the course of this arc including the support cast. Keiko is still something of a stereotype, but Kuwabara's sister Shizuru.

I am really getting to love "Kuwabara the Man." He is very cool and very unappreciated. He's also the only person on the show who can honestly express his true feelings. Nobody else has the self-conviction to be true to themselves like he is. Unfortunately he is very clearly a second stringer in the anime. Like Kuririn and Ryoga he seems fated to be eclipsed by the rest of the cast regardless of how he struggles.

Hopefully I'll have my hands on the Chapter Black Saga soon

[St.Hound]

Yeah I like Kuwabara as well. But I also like Yoko Kuruma. That guy is just sick. But what I don't get is. For Yusuke to be almost a one trick pony Spirit gun! (cough) How does he really keep up with everyone else? I mean he's just raw power and half baked gut instinct. There's almost no real skill involved. Not to just bash he can be cool but I think they may wish work on an expansion to him a bit more. If it's just a matter of will shouldn't Kuwabara actually be stronger because he actually had a realization of his powers first? I dunno. Just me.

[NoSanninWa]

It is a bit odd that Yusuke is the only character without any other abilities. He goes off to train with a great martial master and she teaches him... A more powerful reigun! It stretches my incredulity just a tiny bit that she is also a reigun master. (At least Genkai does have a bunch of other techniques that she uses, even if she hasn't taught them to Yusuke yet.)

We're shortchanging Yusuke just a trifle though. He does have the shotgun technique also which is a decent reigun variant.

[wingdarkness]

Originally Posted by NoSanninWa

I finished the Dark Tournament and have been taking a break from YuYu Hakushou while I acquire more DVDs.

I quite liked the end of the Dark Tournament, though I have a few complaints.

First of all, the power level is starting to encroach on DBZ. It is rather a shock that these characters whose powers were so minor back in the first arc are now destroying the arena through collatoral damage because their abilities are just too huge. I prefered it when their powers were more anti-personel instead of anti-army. But I can live with that now that I am readjusting my expectations.

Well as previously stated the series takes shifts...That was simply the amped up action portion of the story...The next arc takes another shift and "Chapter Black" saga yet another interesting shift in character growth...That's one of the reasons I find this anime so great...The upcoming filler arc will challenge your mind in a way the other parts of the story have yet to expose...

Yusuke is a pure archeatype; no hiding that...But in an archeatype very seldom will you find a character that defines it (whether you think it plain or exciting) quite like Yusuke...I have yet to see a character quite like him in the same mold...He's an a$$, but he has a silent compassion...Not quite like a Kazuma (SCRYED) who fights outside the box of sanity for his goal or like an Ichigo (Bleach) who fights with abit of reflection and heart or even like Goku who fights for the love of fighting...Yusuke sort of has his own method of madness...It kinda has more to do with the day you catch him on ...

Sometimes he's so disinterested in being a spirit detective and his only enjoyment can come from beating some a$$ until it becomes apparent a lackadasical effort won't be enuff, and with the challenge that opponent presents his interest increases...It's pretty cool..


I addressed some of your quote stuff inside of the quote...

More of this commentary requires spoiler tags for the sake of new viewers.

Spoiler for end of Dark Tournament:

I was rather upset that they brought back Genkai from the dead. I feel that in fiction death should be considered final. Otherwise you cannot take it seriously enough. "Oh dear, Goku died... again. Big deal." By bringing back Genkai, I cannot be properly upset if someone else dies. Any death might get reversed now so it isn't as big a problem. I know that Genkai was only brought back as the reward for a great accomplishment, but there may be other methods as well. At least I know that the author can make a method any time he wants to reverse a death.

WDness: Common occurance in shonen anime fortunatley//unfortunatley...What you should be enthralled with is the presentation...Was it cheap? Or did it possess a tangible depth? I'd say Genkai's reasonings and subsequent connection to Yususke and Togorou in her death situation beats out something like Goku getting a permission slip from Enma to fight in a Karate championship...

The there was Toguro not being a bad guy. He murdered hundreds (thousands) in the arena without even blinking. It seemed a bit forced that he only pretended to kill Kuwabara. Judging by all the other people he killed, I would expect him to kill one more human being without blinking. Whatever his reasons and regardless of his self-hatred, he was a very bad guy.

WDness: Exactly... the next boss character you meet will make you reflect upon that opinion of Togorou (If you were paying attention you've already gotten a glimpse of him)...Is someone who kills for the assumed greater good or for malicious greed or to test their faith and abilities; which person is acceptable or is there no acceptabilty? "Chapter Black" will be the gatekeeper of this question (along with being the greatest arc of this anime IMO)...

And most importantly, all of the characters have grown incredibly over the course of this arc including the support cast. Keiko is still something of a stereotype, but Kuwabara's sister Shizuru.

But Kuwabara's sister what? Anyways the characters grow even more by the end of this anime and even more history is revealed...I'm really attached to every character knowing what they are really all about...

I am really getting to love "Kuwabara the Man." He is very cool and very unappreciated. He's also the only person on the show who can honestly express his true feelings. Nobody else has the self-conviction to be true to themselves like he is. Unfortunately he is very clearly a second stringer in the anime. Like Kuririn and Ryoga he seems fated to be eclipsed by the rest of the cast regardless of how he struggles.

Um...well...He's no Krillen and he's definatley no Renji...He'll have his moment of greatness...He's probably closer to Ishida if Bleach is the comparison, but he is comic relief and he accomplishes that goal quite well along with Koenma...The next arc may have you changing your opinion abit though...As for his truth and heart-filled honest expressions, that's what makes his character unique while still being an obvious 2nd tier character in terms of his powers effecting the story...

Originally Posted by NoSanninWa

It is a bit odd that Yusuke is the only character without any other abilities. He goes off to train with a great martial master and she teaches him... A more powerful reigun! It stretches my incredulity just a tiny bit that she is also a reigun master. (At least Genkai does have a bunch of other techniques that she uses, even if she hasn't taught them to Yusuke yet.)

We're shortchanging Yusuke just a trifle though. He does have the shotgun technique also which is a decent reigun variant.

Originally Posted by St.Hound

Yeah I like Kuwabara as well. But I also like Yoko Kuruma. That guy is just sick. But what I don't get is. For Yusuke to be almost a one trick pony Spirit gun! (cough) How does he really keep up with everyone else? I mean he's just raw power and half baked gut instinct. There's almost no real skill involved. Not to just bash he can be cool but I think they may wish work on an expansion to him a bit more. If it's just a matter of will shouldn't Kuwabara actually be stronger because he actually had a realization of his powers first? I dunno. Just me.

You do understand that Yusuke has the highest amount of raw spiritual energy of any human on earth? (and before anyone says Kuwabara he has more spritual awareness not power)...Most of the other characters have been around for hundreds of years developing different abilities aswell...Yusuke's combat ability is bareknuckle street-boxing (He's rumoured to have the greatest right-punch in all of Japan as a kid)...He doesn't need much more than that when you incorporate his trained speed and raw spiritual power...I can't quite remember but I believe it is Koenma's association with Genkai (with her being a demon hunter who had worked with him in the past) which makes Yusuke getting and having the apt for spirit-gun connect (Only those with great spiritual energy can attain this technique and morso accept the soul-ball)...His shotgun as you've mentioned is quite powerful and will make more appearances...Bottomline though Yusuke is pure-power inwhich he can release in abundance...Combine that with catastrophic street-fighter punching power and there's your awesome ability...

Originally Posted by NSW

Hopefully I'll have my hands on the Chapter Black Saga soon

Well I think we both know you can have it as soon as you want it ...

[NoSanninWa]

Yusuke... Yes, I'm quite well aware that his reiki is off the charts. And I know from watching the fights that a high reiki is absolutely the most dangerous thing in this world. Reiki gives speed, strength, durability and more. Yusuke's reiki is high enough that he can defeat most oponents with nothing more than that and instinct. Though the big blast does help a lot. Our point wasn't that Yusuke isn't tough. Our point is that his style is rather simplistic. Of course that goes along with the archtype of a warrior that survives mostly on sheer guts and determination. Very Seiya like. (I believe that Seiya is the ultimate expression of that archtype, but Yusuke is close.)

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

But Kuwabara's sister what? Anyways the characters grow even more by the end of this anime and even more history is revealed...I'm really attached to every character knowing what they are really all about...

Ooops. I forgot to finish that sentence. I'll try again: Keiko is still something of a stereotype, the girl who stands by her man without admitting she cares about him, but Kuwabara's sister Shizuru is surprisingly well developed.

I also care a lot about the characters of any show I watch. Few shows have ever hed my attention without interesting characters. One of the big tests is if the minor characters are developed. In this regard YuYu Hakushou is holding strong. Yay Shizuru! Yay Yukina! Yay Genkai! I'll hope that Keiko eventually gets some more character, though I feel it is probably her fates to remain merely a stereotype.

Spoiler for end of Dark Tournament:

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

WDness: Common occurance in shonen anime fortunatley//unfortunatley...What you should be enthralled with is the presentation...Was it cheap? Or did it possess a tangible depth? I'd say Genkai's reasonings and subsequent connection to Yususke and Togorou in her death situation beats out something like Goku getting a permission slip from Enma to fight in a Karate championship...

How she died was first rate. I cannot do anything except for admire the way her death was portrayed. I was also moved by how everyone responded to her death. It was very real. It was only her resurrection that bothered me. You seem to think that I should excuse a cheap resurrection because her death was so meaningful.

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

Well I think we both know you can have it as soon as you want it ...

Perhaps so, perhaps so. It has been a few weeks, so I think I'll start watching the next arc very soon. What you said about "Chapter Black" above, makes me rather hungry to see it now.

[wingdarkness]

Originally Posted by NSW

You seem to think that I should excuse a cheap resurrection because blank's death was so meaningful.

No, to each their own...just pointing out (which I know you know) this is a necessary evil of the genre we call shonen-fighter...I don't think I can name an anime I've seen in this genre that doesn't feature something like this...So you move on IMO and evaluate the presentation of it...

What you said about "Chapter Black" above, makes me rather hungry to see it now.

It's certainley is fun to discuss the show with you and throw you crumbs with questions and theories I know you'll invest in while watching (All without spoiling you )...I can't speak for everyone here but "Chapter Black" holds a special place for me and certain scenes I can watch over and over and they still give me chillbumps...One of my alltime favorite moments is featured in one memorable discovery...

But you're not quite there yet and the upcoming filler arc has some rather interesting abilities and mental challenges for you...

[NoSanninWa]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

No, to each their own...just pointing out (which I know you know) this is a necessary evil of the genre we call shonen-fighter...I don't think I can name an anime I've seen in this genre that doesn't feature something like this...So you move on IMO and evaluate the presentation of it...

True enough. The only shounen that doesn't have resurrection doesn't have death. (I'm looking at Bleach and Naruto in particular.) It does seem to be a rule that nobody can be dead at the end of an arc. Unless they simply choose not to get resurrected... again. (Looking at Goku now.)

Yeah, putting death in perspective, YuYu Hakusho does win for at least having a meaningful and important death. That is better than almost any other shounen show I could possibly name, except for Saint Seiya. Seiya stands alone for having characters die... and stay dead.

[NoSanninWa]

Well, I just got ahold of the beginning of the Chapter Black Saga... this is the arc I've been waiting to see so that I could find out what the original source material for Bleach's Bounto arc really was. All I can say is, "Holy Moley! I can't believe they murdered this!" After watching the first few episodes two things become apparent. First of all, it is undeniably clear that this was indeed ripped-off to create the Bounto arc. The similarities are just too blatant to be a mere coincidence. The second thing that I realized is that the writers of the Bounto arc are even worse than I imagined to have been able to ruin these awesome episodes.

The interesting and important thing about these episodes is that the powers of these new adversaries are absolute. They cannot be overcome with any amount of raw reiki. They can only be out-thought. This means that the awesome power that ruled in the previous arc is nearly useless against their new enemies. That was truly a lesson that needed to be made in this harsh manner or else it wouldn't have been respected. By contrast to the Bleach Bounto arc, that lesson wasn't really relevant against oppenents that could be fought normally.

Maybe it is wrong to bring up Bleach in a YuYu Hakusho thread, especially since the comparison is so unequal, but it seems unavoidable. At least if the writers for the Bleach filler had done an original story, I could say that it sucks purely on its own merits without pointing out how they didn't even understand the point of the arc that they were unsuccesfully copying.

[wingdarkness]

Originally Posted by NoSanninWa

Well, I just got ahold of the beginning of the Chapter Black Saga... this is the arc I've been waiting to see so that I could find out what the original source material for Bleach's Bounto arc really was. All I can say is, "Holy Moley! I can't believe they murdered this!" After watching the first few episodes two things become apparent. First of all, it is undeniably clear that this was indeed ripped-off to create the Bounto arc. The similarities are just too blatant to be a mere coincidence. The second thing that I realized is that the writers of the Bounto arc are even worse than I imagined to have been able to ruin these awesome episodes.

The interesting and important thing about these episodes is that the powers of these new adversaries are absolute. They cannot be overcome with any amount of raw reiki. They can only be out-thought. This means that the awesome power that ruled in the previous arc is nearly useless against their new enemies. That was truly a lesson that needed to be made in this harsh manner or else it wouldn't have been respected. By contrast to the Bleach Bounto arc, that lesson wasn't really relevant against oppenents that could be fought normally.

Maybe it is wrong to bring up Bleach in a YuYu Hakusho thread, especially since the comparison is so unequal, but it seems unavoidable. At least if the writers for the Bleach filler had done an original story, I could say that it sucks purely on its own merits without pointing out how they didn't even understand the point of the arc that they were unsuccesfully copying.

i'm not gonna lie the ending of the bleach bounto arc was indeed poor in it's execution and revelations... but like i told you yuyu was gonna shift the dynamics again and that's what they did...please tell me you've finished or are nearly finished with chapter black so i can discuss one of the greatest villains shonen has to offer...