AnimeSuki Forums

AuraTwilight · 2012-06-02, 14:38

Yea, it sounds too good to be true. What's the catch?

Diveman · 2012-06-02, 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

Yea, it sounds too good to be true. What's the catch?

Apparently none? thats probably why Nico said "it would be troublesome if you humans killed Kazumi". She's like an infinite energy source.

1337_haxor · 2012-06-02, 18:33

What about the possibility of the Nico we know being an Incubator?

The ability to create replacement bodies out of nowhere and an understanding of the witch system far above what any human girl would possess.

We are giving way too much credit for Kyubey just because he triggered Airi, however, the one who supplied her and Ayase with dark nuts is the person posing as Nico Kanna.

The truth is that all Pleiades turned into witches, no 7 magical girl team could last more than a month or so.

Michiru found a way to bring them back and that sparked an uproar on the Incubator's side.

When Michiru fell the Pleiades began their crusade to revive her and the Incubators saw a chance to recycling witches to make more energy.

Hence they used the remnants of Kazumi's witch to create evil nuts that can in turn be used to catalyze the witch system for a second reaction cycle (like a plutonium reactor) and maybe even generate entropy out of grown women.

The reason why Jyubey can absorb the mud from their soul gems is exactly because they are witches to begin with and hence he is just getting more from an already spent fuel rod (justifying his collaboration with something supposedly anti-entropy).

However, Michiru's solution is only temporary (the reason why she fell into despair) and it might involve jury rigging the souls of other magical girls.

Because of that Nico burned out and turned into a witch again, however, since their Plutonium plan depended on the Pleiades research with Kazumi, the chief Incubator researcher barged in disguised as Nico and pretended it was a spare.

When Kazumi checked on Misako's notes about magical girls dissapearing, she found out that something was amiss with the Pleiades and was going to tell them the truth.

However, the big bad caught wind of what was going on and placed Kazumi on stasis while trying to convince the Pleiades to continue their ressurrection efforts.

I think she wanted them to believe Kazumi had some sort of control so that they would stop short of killing her and decided to improve the clonning process for the Plutonium plan to carry on.

As for the reason that Incubator can mimick any magic, there comes the biggest revelation.

She is Kyubey's boss! She is the one behind the witch system and the one intermediating all magic to their contracts.

If I am right, next chapter we might come face to face with MEPHISTO herself!

Diveman · 2012-06-03, 01:13

Interesting theory, it would make a lot of sense. Since the "nico" we knew was a nice (kinda weird) girl.

And now remembering what "spare nico" said when becoming a witch: "At this rate, I'll die without a trace. Please everyone remember me. I can't take it anymore. I don't want to kill anymore. We have no future as long as he's around"

so it "could" be that the Nico we're seeing now is not the real one (which died after fighting the Soujos)

Witched · 2012-06-03, 12:42

Hmmm..

Nico being Kyubey's boss is a bit off- she contracted with the other Pleiades member, so she couldn't have been living that long to get Kyubey to contract people from back then.

But if everyone was a witch to begin with, then why'd this 'Nico' call them humans?

deadsea · 2012-06-03, 15:05

Nico behaviour is like Incubators behaviour, She have Spares,the same expression almost all time, weird smile, weird powers, and she refers to others magical girls like "humans" just like QB...
And the words "At this rate, I'll die without a trace. Please everyone remember me. I can't take it anymore. I don't want to kill anymore. We have no future as long as he's around"

or maybe nico see other way to gain energy without do new contracts , but making fake magical girls...And jubey remembers everything because incubators have collective memories. She is the only one that knows the truth like Homura.

Diveman · 2012-06-03, 21:14

I also found this on the wiki:

"It's interesting to note the Grief Seed for copy-Nico's witch actually has a diamond top, while Nico's Soul Gem has a hexagonal top, implying the witch may not have come from the real Nico's Soul Gem"

AuraTwilight · 2012-06-04, 03:56

I suspected that for a while. It'd be too convenient if she can make witches basically for free, so I imagined that she would take one of those frozen Magical Girls and actually reshapes and reprograms them into clones.

Which is SUPER goddamn creepy, and thus probably canon.

deadsea · 2012-06-04, 11:33

i think that too, but she need umika's ability, to rewrite her memories :c

1337_haxor · 2012-06-05, 15:47

The thing that I am saying is that the Nico we see is not the real Nico, it is an Incubator that took on her form for the sake of some derranged cosmic horror plot.

Nico is dead, she died together with the other Pleiades before Michiru and died again after the battle with Ayase.

If the thing producing Evil Nuts was Nico then it wouldn't make sense for Airi to have them.

How would she accept help from a member of the faction she hated so deeply?

Incubators can manufacture any body they want, Kyubey's furball form is choosen only because it makes his job easier, if he wanted to look like Tuxedo Mask he would do it for the benefit of contracting girls.

As a matter of fact that Incubator boss took the form of Nico to infiltrate the Pleiades and further the whole Evil Nut catalyst plan.

She wanted for the Pleiades to keep on cloning Kazumi so that she could perfect the witch system for greater efficiency.

Diveman · 2012-06-06, 12:17

Ok, ch 17's script is out.

So basically Kazumi was the one who started the fight, she wanted them to kill her and revive the real michiru and satomi. The girls explain to her that they faked Kazumi's memories because when they tried to implant Michiru's memories into the clones, they kinda went bananas and became witches/murderers, so what they did was to take Michiru's "will" and create fake memories for Kazumi, along with a different personality as well.

Also it is Nico who creates Evil Nuts by using a spell called "Prodotto Secondario" or "Secondary Product".

So what this means is...Kazumi's memories are altered, and what we saw on that chapter could be entirely false, opening the posibility of all the girls being turned into witches and turned back into magical girls in the past.

1337_haxor · 2012-06-06, 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diveman

Ok, ch 17's script is out.

So basically Kazumi was the one who started the fight, she wanted them to kill her and revive the real michiru and satomi. The girls explain to her that they faked Kazumi's memories because when they tried to implant Michiru's memories into the clones, they kinda went bananas and became witches/murderers, so what they did was to take Michiru's "will" and create fake memories for Kazumi, along with a different personality as well.

Also it is Nico who creates Evil Nuts by using a spell called "Prodotto Secondario" or "Secondary Product".

So what this means is...Kazumi's memories are altered, and what we saw on that chapter could be entirely false, opening the posibility of all the girls being turned into witches and turned back into magical girls in the past.

Basically the entire premise is set on unreliable narrators.

I guess it was true when Kazumi was told she never revealed her wish to her comrades, the grandma thing was created just to fill up what they didn't know.

Still, that Nico is a fake for sure, the real Nico is dead and we are all being trolled by an Incubator or some other abomination.

**Solace** · 2012-06-07, 02:47

I'm not sold on Nico being a fake just yet, but yeah there's definitely a major mindscrew coming up. Jyubey and Kyubey are up to something, that much is clear, and it definitely revolves around the mystery of what happened between Michiru's death and Kazumi's "birth", including the chamber.

If I were an Incubator, all of those dirty Soul Gems ready to turn into Witches would be too good of an opportunity to pass up.

Witched · 2012-06-07, 21:17

Oi, wait. Umika being able to implant personalities along with memories? It made sense with Juubey, so it's possibly that she could have implanted memories on a Nico clone to have the same personality as Juubey/Kyuubey beforehand, while transferring (the Real) Nico's memories to it as well.

Feels weird if Nico/Umika helped Kyuubey out by making his clones and implanting them with their memories as well...

I still wonder how Kazumi's soul gem was made, even though it looks like a Grief Seed. Anyone want to recap on that?

Diveman · 2012-06-07, 23:58

I don't really want to overthink it anymore, its already very confusing as it is lol.

Witched · 2012-06-08, 08:45

Lol..

Then there's the fact that they tried implanting Michiru's memories into the clones. How could they even do that if they never had access to her's after she died? Something's a bit weird here..

Diveman · 2012-06-08, 12:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Witched

Lol..

Then there's the fact that they tried implanting Michiru's memories into the clones. How could they even do that if they never had access to her's after she died? Something's a bit weird here..

how do you know that? They could have.

Witched · 2012-06-08, 13:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diveman

how do you know that? They could have.

Michiru's diary allowed them to reconstruct her memories based on that time, though it wasn't 100% precise did not include everything that happened way around/before then.

Not the most reliable thing they had 'access' to memories, really..

AuraTwilight · 2012-06-08, 15:31

They have Micihiru's witch, and her soul, tortured though it may be, is still in the Grief Seed. Umika might be able to extract memories from inside that.

deadsea · 2012-06-09, 16:09

About kazumi soul gem is a mess. I still dont get it how a grief seed can be used as a Soul Gem, is an irreversible process!

I think they are using the bodies and the gems of the girls in the freezer, they make a clone and then bond thebody to the gem,later umika rewrite the memories of the girl to believe that she is another person.

Or Maybe nico is Reshaping the bodies!!Coz body is only a vessel

2012-06-02, 14:38	Link #261
AuraTwilight The True Culprit Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The Golden Land	Yea, it sounds too good to be true. What's the catch? __________________ When the Silent Spirits Cry: An Umineko/Silent Hill crossover fanfiction http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=4565173&postcount=531

2012-06-02, 18:33	Link #263
1337_haxor Member Join Date: Jun 2012	Well... What about the possibility of the Nico we know being an Incubator? The ability to create replacement bodies out of nowhere and an understanding of the witch system far above what any human girl would possess. We are giving way too much credit for Kyubey just because he triggered Airi, however, the one who supplied her and Ayase with dark nuts is the person posing as Nico Kanna. The truth is that all Pleiades turned into witches, no 7 magical girl team could last more than a month or so. Michiru found a way to bring them back and that sparked an uproar on the Incubator's side. When Michiru fell the Pleiades began their crusade to revive her and the Incubators saw a chance to recycling witches to make more energy. Hence they used the remnants of Kazumi's witch to create evil nuts that can in turn be used to catalyze the witch system for a second reaction cycle (like a plutonium reactor) and maybe even generate entropy out of grown women. The reason why Jyubey can absorb the mud from their soul gems is exactly because they are witches to begin with and hence he is just getting more from an already spent fuel rod (justifying his collaboration with something supposedly anti-entropy). However, Michiru's solution is only temporary (the reason why she fell into despair) and it might involve jury rigging the souls of other magical girls. Because of that Nico burned out and turned into a witch again, however, since their Plutonium plan depended on the Pleiades research with Kazumi, the chief Incubator researcher barged in disguised as Nico and pretended it was a spare. When Kazumi checked on Misako's notes about magical girls dissapearing, she found out that something was amiss with the Pleiades and was going to tell them the truth. However, the big bad caught wind of what was going on and placed Kazumi on stasis while trying to convince the Pleiades to continue their ressurrection efforts. I think she wanted them to believe Kazumi had some sort of control so that they would stop short of killing her and decided to improve the clonning process for the Plutonium plan to carry on. As for the reason that Incubator can mimick any magic, there comes the biggest revelation. She is Kyubey's boss! She is the one behind the witch system and the one intermediating all magic to their contracts. If I am right, next chapter we might come face to face with MEPHISTO herself!

2012-06-04, 03:56	Link #268
AuraTwilight The True Culprit Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The Golden Land	I suspected that for a while. It'd be too convenient if she can make witches basically for free, so I imagined that she would take one of those frozen Magical Girls and actually reshapes and reprograms them into clones. Which is SUPER goddamn creepy, and thus probably canon. __________________ When the Silent Spirits Cry: An Umineko/Silent Hill crossover fanfiction http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=4565173&postcount=531

2012-06-05, 15:47	Link #270
1337_haxor Member Join Date: Jun 2012	Well... The thing that I am saying is that the Nico we see is not the real Nico, it is an Incubator that took on her form for the sake of some derranged cosmic horror plot. Nico is dead, she died together with the other Pleiades before Michiru and died again after the battle with Ayase. If the thing producing Evil Nuts was Nico then it wouldn't make sense for Airi to have them. How would she accept help from a member of the faction she hated so deeply? Incubators can manufacture any body they want, Kyubey's furball form is choosen only because it makes his job easier, if he wanted to look like Tuxedo Mask he would do it for the benefit of contracting girls. As a matter of fact that Incubator boss took the form of Nico to infiltrate the Pleiades and further the whole Evil Nut catalyst plan. She wanted for the Pleiades to keep on cloning Kazumi so that she could perfect the witch system for greater efficiency. Last edited by 1337_haxor; 2012-06-06 at 11:01.

2012-06-07, 02:47	Link #273
Solace (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻ Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006	I'm not sold on Nico being a fake just yet, but yeah there's definitely a major mindscrew coming up. Jyubey and Kyubey are up to something, that much is clear, and it definitely revolves around the mystery of what happened between Michiru's death and Kazumi's "birth", including the chamber. If I were an Incubator, all of those dirty Soul Gems ready to turn into Witches would be too good of an opportunity to pass up. __________________

2012-06-03, 01:13	Link #264
Diveman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011	Interesting theory, it would make a lot of sense. Since the "nico" we knew was a nice (kinda weird) girl. And now remembering what "spare nico" said when becoming a witch: "At this rate, I'll die without a trace. Please everyone remember me. I can't take it anymore. I don't want to kill anymore. We have no future as long as he's around" so it "could" be that the Nico we're seeing now is not the real one (which died after fighting the Soujos)

2012-06-03, 12:42	Link #265
Witched Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011	Hmmm.. Nico being Kyubey's boss is a bit off- she contracted with the other Pleiades member, so she couldn't have been living that long to get Kyubey to contract people from back then. But if everyone was a witch to begin with, then why'd this 'Nico' call them humans?

2012-06-03, 15:05	Link #266
deadsea Member Join Date: Apr 2011	Nico behaviour is like Incubators behaviour, She have Spares,the same expression almost all time, weird smile, weird powers, and she refers to others magical girls like "humans" just like QB... And the words "At this rate, I'll die without a trace. Please everyone remember me. I can't take it anymore. I don't want to kill anymore. We have no future as long as he's around" or maybe nico see other way to gain energy without do new contracts , but making fake magical girls...And jubey remembers everything because incubators have collective memories. She is the only one that knows the truth like Homura.

2012-06-03, 21:14	Link #267
Diveman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011	I also found this on the wiki: "It's interesting to note the Grief Seed for copy-Nico's witch actually has a diamond top, while Nico's Soul Gem has a hexagonal top, implying the witch may not have come from the real Nico's Soul Gem"

2012-06-04, 11:33	Link #269
deadsea Member Join Date: Apr 2011	i think that too, but she need umika's ability, to rewrite her memories :c

2012-06-06, 12:17	Link #271
Diveman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011	Ok, ch 17's script is out. So basically Kazumi was the one who started the fight, she wanted them to kill her and revive the real michiru and satomi. The girls explain to her that they faked Kazumi's memories because when they tried to implant Michiru's memories into the clones, they kinda went bananas and became witches/murderers, so what they did was to take Michiru's "will" and create fake memories for Kazumi, along with a different personality as well. Also it is Nico who creates Evil Nuts by using a spell called "Prodotto Secondario" or "Secondary Product". So what this means is...Kazumi's memories are altered, and what we saw on that chapter could be entirely false, opening the posibility of all the girls being turned into witches and turned back into magical girls in the past.

2012-06-07, 21:17	Link #274
Witched Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011	Oi, wait. Umika being able to implant personalities along with memories? It made sense with Juubey, so it's possibly that she could have implanted memories on a Nico clone to have the same personality as Juubey/Kyuubey beforehand, while transferring (the Real) Nico's memories to it as well. Feels weird if Nico/Umika helped Kyuubey out by making his clones and implanting them with their memories as well... I still wonder how Kazumi's soul gem was made, even though it looks like a Grief Seed. Anyone want to recap on that?

2012-06-07, 23:58	Link #275
Diveman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011	I don't really want to overthink it anymore, its already very confusing as it is lol.

2012-06-08, 08:45	Link #276
Witched Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011	Lol.. Then there's the fact that they tried implanting Michiru's memories into the clones. How could they even do that if they never had access to her's after she died? Something's a bit weird here..

2012-06-08, 15:31	Link #279
AuraTwilight The True Culprit Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The Golden Land	They have Micihiru's witch, and her soul, tortured though it may be, is still in the Grief Seed. Umika might be able to extract memories from inside that. __________________ When the Silent Spirits Cry: An Umineko/Silent Hill crossover fanfiction http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=4565173&postcount=531

2012-06-09, 16:09	Link #280
deadsea Member Join Date: Apr 2011	About kazumi soul gem is a mess. I still dont get it how a grief seed can be used as a Soul Gem, is an irreversible process! I think they are using the bodies and the gems of the girls in the freezer, they make a clone and then bond thebody to the gem,later umika rewrite the memories of the girl to believe that she is another person. Or Maybe nico is Reshaping the bodies!!Coz body is only a vessel Last edited by deadsea; 2012-06-10 at 19:33.