Sword Art Online - Anime General Discussion [NO SPOILERS]

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by c933103

As i said in http://swordartonline.wikia.com/wiki..._would_be_July , I don't think we can see season 2 in coming spring...

Summer 2014 is quite possible, given that the first season was in Summer 2012. The new VITA game is coming out in Spring, so I guess that and the SAO Extra BD release (along with a probable BD-BOX) should tide people over. (I just hope they don't include the Extra Episode in the Box and not provide a way to buy it on its own... which I don't think they'd do, but man... )

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by RRW

YouTube

https://youtu.be/R38HAGvM5yw

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

With some MMO action, swimsuits, and likely more Kirto/Asuna, I'm definitely excited for the special !

[Krono]

The ad's up with english subtitles now:

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...led-in-english

[B2-Lancer]

Happy New Year!

I find the prospect of a "secret" Leafa/Kirito VR romance and quiet Asuna/Leafa rivalry refreshingly intriguing and would set SAO apart from the herd. Variety is the spice of life and I think this potential taboo but sinless VR pairing will be largely responsible for carrying on interest in the show since SAO imitations are doubtlessly in the wings. Though I've read of fans who believe the two would’ve recognized each other off the bat, my own real-life experience finds it quite credible as there're tons of real life examples from plastic surgery cases to insurance disguise deceptions that attest to that.

Though a secret Kirito x Leafa VR romance has been publicly blown in the "Extra Edition" episode (where I like Leafa's gesture of hope and tacit determination at the very end to get her man!...), if we dismiss that EE as omake, the close of Episode 25 opens that sly romantic possibility for a season two. Their moving mid-air lover's waltz at the end of 25 was a blatant teaser that something is going to bloom between these two because most brothers just wouldn't be so seduced into that poignant scene even for a jest.

Ah yes, Suguha is a sly one...

Additionally the EE gives us a peek that Kirito is uncomfortable just how to treat Leafa in public -- being just brotherly doesn't seem to cut the quiet tension. Everything hinges on his acknowledging his split skittish heart and Leafa finding a way to bridge it by pressing him that there's technically no incest going on and they otherwise have a great real-world relationship. We get flashes that they think of another, and that Kazuto envisions Leafa in Suguha -- a "safe" excuse to deny any siblinghood. (Then one can wildly imagine what we'd had had SAO replaced Asuna with Leafa from the get-go with no breaks back into the real world! Maybe a parallel universe version?...)

At first blush it seems Asuna holds the cards in Kirito's heart but just how secure is this? In VR they mostly pressed together to escape the gloom and depression of captivity and death and never going home again. Would've anything sparked between them had they first met in the real world? They might've been "married" in VR, but by the EE you wouldn't known it. Maybe VR desperate ardor has cooled to mere close friendship in reality -- and an opening for Suguha. Even Liz whiffs this in the EE. There seem to be hints that Asuna smells something going on between the two with how she reaches out to Leafa at 25's close and her visuals in the teasers. Maybe a head's-up spoiler here, but I think Suguha is sly enough to have her cake and eat it too by coaxing Kazuto to keep a platonic sibling relationship in the real world but a full-blown romance in VR. She has an incredible advantage; she knows what buttons to push and many fans say she's lovelier and cuter than Asuna.

Anyway this is a well above series with mucho potential if the producers are daring enough!

[winback]

Am I the only one to notice that in the very first episode that Akihiko Kayaba, SAO's creator, demonstrated that there was no log out option using his "Left" hand instead of his right hand? SAO utilized the right hand and ALO utilized the left hand..... find that interesting.

Anyone else pick up on this?

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by B2-Lancer

Though a secret Kirito x Leafa VR romance has been publicly blown in the "Extra Edition" episode (where I like Leafa's gesture of hope and tacit determination at the very end to get her man!...), if we dismiss that EE as omake, the close of Episode 25 opens that sly romantic possibility for a season two. Their moving mid-air lover's waltz at the end of 25 was a blatant teaser that something is going to bloom between these two because most brothers just wouldn't be so seduced into that poignant scene even for a jest.

I don't think there was any "seduction" in that scene, really. It was more like bittersweet. Kazuto can be that close to Suguha in that scene because he trusts her, but she knows that his feelings for her will never go beyond just being close siblings. But, by the same token, they'll always have this never-changing bond, and through all that happened they've gotten closer. I think they do love each other very much, but romantically Kirito already has his heart set on someone else. The "Fairy Dance" is a symbol of the close bond Suguha still shares with Kazuto, despite her unrequited love.

As for Asuna, I don't think she's shown any sign at all about being "worried" about Suguha. I think her reaching out to Suguha with such an inviting face at the end of Episode 25 wasn't out of some sort of jealousy, but rather the complete opposite: she was trying to assure Suguha that she was welcome to remain close to Kazuto even when she's there, and to come with them in the VR world. If anything, I think all she's been through with Kazuto gives her a sort of confidence that goes beyond High School puppy love; in both of their minds, it's as though they're already married.

Of course, all this said, there is certainly no shortage of fan-fiction that plays up the angle you describe, because Suguha is a popular character and forbidden romance is always a popular theme. So even though I doubt that the canon story will ever do anything along the lines you describe, the possibility/idea will probably always remain in the hearts of some of the fans.

[daedalron]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

If anything, I think all [Asuna]'s been through with Kazuto gives her a sort of confidence that goes beyond High School puppy love; in both of their minds, it's as though they're already married.

I think the same. Well, they were married in SAO, and I find a marriage there even more of a commitment than what it would be in the real world. By marrying, you give access to your lover to all of your belongings, and also possibility to enter your room even if not invited. With this kind of death game, you need absolute trust to do so (especially after seeing what happened with the Murder in the area arc (episode 5-6)).

They have both shown that they were ready to die for the other one (Kirito soloing a boss meant for around 50 players, Asuna taking Kayaba's blow to save Kirito).

The way Asuna interacts with Suguha in EE clearly shows she doesn't feel threatened at all, instead already treating Suguha as her own little sister.

[B2-Lancer]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

I don't think there was any "seduction" in that scene, really. It was more like bittersweet. Kazuto can be that close to Suguha in that scene because he trusts her, but she knows that his feelings for her will never go beyond just being close siblings. But, by the same token, they'll always have this never-changing bond, and through all that happened they've gotten closer. I think they do love each other very much, but romantically Kirito already has his heart set on someone else. The "Fairy Dance" is a symbol of the close bond Suguha still shares with Kazuto, despite her unrequited love.

As for Asuna, I don't think she's shown any sign at all about being "worried" about Suguha. I think her reaching out to Suguha with such an inviting face at the end of Episode 25 wasn't out of some sort of jealousy, but rather the complete opposite: she was trying to assure Suguha that she was welcome to remain close to Kazuto even when she's there, and to come with them in the VR world. If anything, I think all she's been through with Kazuto gives her a sort of confidence that goes beyond High School puppy love; in both of their minds, it's as though they're already married.

Of course, all this said, there is certainly no shortage of fan-fiction that plays up the angle you describe, because Suguha is a popular character and forbidden romance is always a popular theme. So even though I doubt that the canon story will ever do anything along the lines you describe, the possibility/idea will probably always remain in the hearts of some of the fans.

Hi

Just to be clear, I didn't mean seduction in the literal sense, only how she coaxed him into that poignant and telling waltz. Several major anime sites predict that the developing relationship and potential psychological twists featuring Kirito/Leafa (as opposed to Kazuto/Suguha) will be the core draw of the series this year, despite the arc line-ups in the light novel which I doubt the anime producers will exploit this time around. Anime sib-romance is hot nowadays and I suspect the producers slyly seeded it in SAO as a coy trial balloon to test the appeal. I think they know they hooked a following. They might have to pass off the Extra Edition as omake so the pair's VR truths aren't publicly known though they might whip up some way around that with a pair double life thingie or such, but as that sib VR affair set-up is pretty unique while the concept of VR adventure worlds isn't, the show might likely milk that unique off-beat interest for all it's worth. It's different and daring and that is a big attraction for me as well.

[Krono]

Originally Posted by B2-Lancer

Hi

Just to be clear, I didn't mean seduction in the literal sense, only how she coaxed him into that poignant and telling waltz. Several major anime sites predict that the developing relationship and potential psychological twists featuring Kirito/Leafa (as opposed to Kazuto/Suguha) will be the core draw of the series this year, despite the arc line-ups in the light novel which I doubt the anime producers will exploit this time around. Anime sib-romance is hot nowadays and I suspect the producers slyly seeded it in SAO as a coy trial balloon to test the appeal. I think they know they hooked a following. They might have to pass off the Extra Edition as omake so the pair's VR truths aren't publicly known though they might whip up some way around that with a pair double life thingie or such, but as that sib VR affair set-up is pretty unique while the concept of VR adventure worlds isn't, the show might likely milk that unique off-beat interest for all it's worth. It's different and daring and that is a big attraction for me as well.

First, I'm not sure what "major anime sites" you are looking at, but they're delusional if they think that SAO II will stray very far from the novels and short stories. Especially as the trailer and available information clearly shows that they'll be covering the next arc.

Second, "Anime sib-romance" has been 'hot' for years. That's likely part of the reason that Kirito and Suguha's relationship was given a romantic element in the first place. It's not a new state of affairs that justifies a sudden, massive change in direction for the anime.

Third, your theory of a VR romance between Kirito and Leafa runs into the problem that the driving plot behind the extra edition was that Kirito and Asuna were sitting around their virtual house, telling their virtual daughter about the things she had missed out on while shut down, leading them to want to take her to see a virtual whale. Even if you do as you suggest and pretend that the extra edition does not exist, Kirito and Asuna still have the virtual house and the virtual daughter, so you'd have to pretend those don't exist as well. Which, in Yui's case in particular is problematic to say the least.

[B2-Lancer]

Originally Posted by Krono

First, I'm not sure what "major anime sites" you are looking at, but they're delusional if they think that SAO II will stray very far from the novels and short stories. Especially as the trailer and available information clearly shows that they'll be covering the next arc.

Second, "Anime sib-romance" has been 'hot' for years. That's likely part of the reason that Kirito and Suguha's relationship was given a romantic element in the first place. It's not a new state of affairs that justifies a sudden, massive change in direction for the anime.

Third, your theory of a VR romance between Kirito and Leafa runs into the problem that the driving plot behind the extra edition was that Kirito and Asuna were sitting around their virtual house, telling their virtual daughter about the things she had missed out on while shut down, leading them to want to take her to see a virtual whale. Even if you do as you suggest and pretend that the extra edition does not exist, Kirito and Asuna still have the virtual house and the virtual daughter, so you'd have to pretend those don't exist as well. Which, in Yui's case in particular is problematic to say the least.

Re: A.N.N., CrunchyRoll, WATTS, very friendly open-minded sites like those. BTW, I'm not the one pushing these thoughts (and even if they were fanfic seeds, I don't depreciate fanfics and respect their writers doing such) but that's the chat and ideas running out there.

Good show.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by B2-Lancer

Re: A.N.N., CrunchyRoll, WATTS, very friendly open-minded sites like those. BTW, I'm not the one pushing these thoughts (and even if they were fanfic seeds, I don't depreciate fanfics and respect their writers doing such) but that's the chat and ideas running out there.

Well, to be more clear, the fact that some members on those sites/forums are speculating about this is not quite the same as "several major anime sites predict", which implies an official editorial voice. I think you will also find members on those sites who will not support those sorts of predictions, as they do tend to run counter to some of the in-show evidence (and frankly, though there are certainly some KiritoxLeafa/Suguha shippers, there are also a good number of detractors).

I think there is a difference between advocating possibilities in fanfiction (or maybe unspoken canon), and believing that the anime will deviate significantly from the source material and go down this route, which does seem to run contrary to evidence so far. I don't think that's necessarily being "closed-minded", but rather perhaps being a bit less fanciful about the possibilities that are likely to be explored.

[Krono]

Originally Posted by B2-Lancer

Re: A.N.N., CrunchyRoll, WATTS, very friendly open-minded sites like those. BTW, I'm not the one pushing these thoughts (and even if they were fanfic seeds, I don't depreciate fanfics and respect their writers doing such) but that's the chat and ideas running out there.

Good show.

Then you have a rather interesting definition of "major anime sites predict". ANN's articles on the subject make no such predictions, and the only one pushing such ideas in their forums is a guy with a single digit post count named "maxlance". Crunchyroll's articles on the subject predict no such thing either, and the only person that seems to be pushing the idea is a user named jimwg who posted a review identical to your first post on the subject in this thread. Which is coincidentally identical to maxlance's first post on the subject at ANN.

I'm not sure what site you are referring to with WATTS, and a quick google turns up nothing, but I don't think further checking is necessary. I'd say we've established a pattern, and I seriously hope you don't expect us to believe that those two users aren't you.

Really, it's fine to have wild theories, but you really shouldn't try to pretend that they have more support than they do.

[daedalron]

Originally Posted by Krono

the only person that seems to be pushing the idea is a user named jimwg who posted a review identical to your first post on the subject in this thread. Which is coincidentally identical to maxlance's first post on the subject at ANN.

Lol ! Nice investigation
It's funny using his own posts to prove his theory, like it was a widely supported one...

[Biohazardous]

I just watched all of this and look forward to more. I have only seen the anime for right now. I think Kirito would never do anything behind Asuna's back. He has given his all for her and has shown with his actions his deep love for her. I think he has a deep love for his sister now also but it wont be something at the relationship level. He may have issues on how to act around her with the others because of her confession. I think he understands that she probally has the kind of love for him that he has for Asuna. You could see her pain as she confessed. And her reaction when he just apologized after instead of embracing her or letting her know she is loved too. I look forward to more SAO. I just hope they don't have Kirito stray from Asuna. He has gone through to much with and for her to make it believable that he would.

[potchip]

Originally Posted by blackwhite67

Wow, but I was referring to how these kids don't know about the intricacies of the anime world. They're watching this crap probably not even realizing that parts of the op was cut and the worst part is they're ENJOYING it.

Remove the bolded bits and this statement can boardly apply to SAO in general, an above-average-at-best franchise

[siGil]

actually i think the anime series is quite well done. if you've read the books then you will realize how nicely they've woven together all the characters and events.

it appeals quite well to audiences with a MMO background (such as myself), in fact im so, SO envious of all the fun they get to have~

other than that it pretty much has all the standard anime characteristics. romance, passion, survival, appealing to sympathy etc...

wish i saw this when i was younger tho... would've had more time to explore MMOs~

[potchip]

This show is pretty bad. Like it has its moments but are easily eclipsed by the amount of time I spent retrieving my eyeballs that were rolled into my temple...

Maybe its popularity can be explained by 2 factors:
1. A wishfulfilling main character who behaves like any uncertain teenager and devoid of any personality. He respond blankly to any romantic interactions.

2. A mostly generic world allowing viewers with MMORPG to insert their own past experience and feelings

If you compare this show to other anime that does the 'lost in a fantasy world' well, the contrast in execution cannot be more stark (eg 12 kingdoms)

Another thing I noticed is the LN brigade. I can accept the anime botched the job but I cannot see anything great from the ground covered. All the extra explanations serves merely as patches to shoddy writing to begin with.

The potential is there but interesting facets that I wished this show would've tackled include:

- how real people behave in this situation. The show's portrayal of human behaviour facing life and death can only be explained by the retardednesss of players
- how people deal with the difference of VR - ie an simplification of the real world. I found Asuna's comment on cooking is a skill and so much simpler in game very fascinating and the same can be applied to just about every aspect of the world with some imagination
- the game mechanics (again limitations) and how players exploit these
- there appears to be a differing degree of freedom when it comes optional 'enjoyments' etc, if only the show could've tackled how different people may deal with these functions in game such as eating/drinking - if it is not necessary, some may not do it at all, and eventually it becomes a habit

[Flere821]

Originally Posted by potchip

This show is pretty bad. Like it has its moments but are easily eclipsed by the amount of time I spent retrieving my eyeballs that were rolled into my temple...

Maybe its popularity can be explained by 2 factors:
1. A wishfulfilling main character who behaves like any uncertain teenager and devoid of any personality. He respond blankly to any romantic interactions.

Uh-huh, right, so Kirito never figured out Asuna was in love with him and SAO was only a 12-episode season

More seriously, going by what you want to watch you might be better off checking out Log Horizon instead of watching SAO.

[ices]

Originally Posted by siGil

actually i think the anime series is quite well done. if you've read the books then you will realize how nicely they've woven together all the characters and events.

it appeals quite well to audiences with a MMO background (such as myself), in fact im so, SO envious of all the fun they get to have~

other than that it pretty much has all the standard anime characteristics. romance, passion, survival, appealing to sympathy etc...

wish i saw this when i was younger tho... would've had more time to explore MMOs~

Originally Posted by potchip

2. A mostly generic world allowing viewers with MMORPG to insert their own past experience and feelings

If you compare this show to other anime that does the 'lost in a fantasy world' well, the contrast in execution cannot be more stark (eg 12 kingdoms)

I'm agree with both of you. The ones that draw me to this anime was the MMORPG theme. When watching this anime, I though that they do a good job in doing this. I'm not an addict MMORPG player myself, but I enjoy watching what this anime present.

But my view changed after watching Log Horizon, another anime with similar premise. The exploration of MMORPG theme in Log Horizon was so much better compared to SAO. The world-building, the MMORPG politics, and even the economics and social implication are deeply explored. And they're not just focussing to just the protagonist, his angst, romance, and combat power. Every cast in Log Horizon aren't justy a typical background or supporting character. They all has unique MMORPG player trait and contribute a lot to the story. From the newbies player, tactician, combat oriented, hard-core role-player, merchant-oriented, and many more. They're much-much better if you compare them to SAO cast. But it's just my view on this.

(For siGil, I recommend you to watch Log Horizon or read the LN. It's much better than SAO if you consider MMORPG as the main element.)

Well, but I'm not saying that SAO was bad. It's has a good story, good cast, nice world-technology, good animation, great fighting scene, and also popular world-wide. They both different beast for different type of viewers.

[Netto Azure]

To be quite honest, other than a previous brush with Ragnarok the Animation and .Hack I was not able to get into this genre quite a bit. But after Anime Expo 2012 and the LiSA concert encouraged me to look deeply for the source, I was quite taken in by the world building and now had the capacity to chew and immerse myself in the setting. It just happens that SAO was the most recent one that got me back into the sub-genre, the fervor would have probably been there anyways if I picked up another series such as Log Horizon, The Legendary Moonlight Sculptor, Yureka and 1/2 Prince.

Originally Posted by potchip

This show is pretty bad. Like it has its moments but are easily eclipsed by the amount of time I spent retrieving my eyeballs that were rolled into my temple...

Maybe its popularity can be explained by 2 factors:
1. A wishfulfilling main character who behaves like any uncertain teenager and devoid of any personality. He respond blankly to any romantic interactions.

This is sadly the nature of adaptations. Sword Art Online (Like many other light novels) was written in an introspective manner, with lots of internal monologues to provide characterizations. The way I described it is like the anime cut out half the story, and you only saw the characters actions. The lack of seeing their thought processes really detracted from the show overall. This is unlike Mamare Toumo's writing style in MaouYuu which consisted of dialouge or Log Horizon which emphasized a more broader view of interactions, which allowed NHK to focus on such aspects and cut out the darker aspects without detracting from the story overall.

2. A mostly generic world allowing viewers with MMORPG to insert their own past experience and feelings

Well isn't that the point? It's the hook of the series. It's not an inherently "bad thing" in and upon itself. Many people play RPG's for the sake of this feeling. Conveying such things in another medium is just another way of allowing people to let phantasy and imagination flow.

If you compare this show to other anime that does the 'lost in a fantasy world' well, the contrast in execution cannot be more stark (eg 12 kingdoms)

Another thing I noticed is the LN brigade. I can accept the anime botched the job but I cannot see anything great from the ground covered. All the extra explanations serves merely as patches to shoddy writing to begin with.

Kawahara's writing style certainly evolved over time. You could see it in how further arcs developed, and of course his more fleshed out group interactive series Accel World. Similar premise, but wholly different group interactions.

The potential is there but interesting facets that I wished this show would've tackled include:

- how real people behave in this situation. The show's portrayal of human behaviour facing life and death can only be explained by the retardednesss of players
- how people deal with the difference of VR - ie an simplification of the real world. I found Asuna's comment on cooking is a skill and so much simpler in game very fascinating and the same can be applied to just about every aspect of the world with some imagination
- the game mechanics (again limitations) and how players exploit these
- there appears to be a differing degree of freedom when it comes optional 'enjoyments' etc, if only the show could've tackled how different people may deal with these functions in game such as eating/drinking - if it is not necessary, some may not do it at all, and eventually it becomes a habit.

Ah, this I agree with completely, I too wish for more content in the SAO universe (which I should point out is being fulfilled in the SAO: Progressive series which goes floor by floor.) Though in order to satiate my desires, I've picked up most series dealing with VRMMO's available out there, and do recommend Natsunokumo for the psychological aspect of the sub-genre.