NFL and College Football (American Football) Thread

[JagdPanther]

Originally Posted by ReaperxKingx

My comprehension skills is one of my strong suit, but lets not head into a heated discussion that insults one another.

I didn't say Clowney bench press was a red flag did I? All I said I was disappointed in it. By all means its not a red flag, plus I was placing probably too much expectation on him for that drill.

I already know about the arm length situation, I spend a lot of weight training at an average of 3 hours per session for a long while 3 times a week. I already know the difficulty that it poses. However, I also observe those who can overcome it, it is possible.

So if you had this understanding, why was your first response to point out an exception as if pointing out such a situation would totally defeat the point...?

For a guy that been known to rag doll opponents and faces double teams a lot, you expect above the average.

My expectations were that Clowney put around 24-29, above the usually average of 18-23 of edge pass rushers. Ideally, I would like something similar of Michael Johnson from the Bengals who posted up 28 reps. Its not like I am asking him to post up 32-42 range of an offensive tackle am I?

My red flags of Clowney was not his bench press or his vertical, I already stated I am a game film scouting type of guy. I even presented in bold to let it be known, and stated I would only add the critique of the combine if I find his game film lacking which it was. A top 5 pick should not make you ask about his effort in games, that is my biggest red flag.

I can get behind that, to a degree. I just don't see 22 reps as any real issue. It's a number. You always want to see better numbers, but this one isn't particularly concerning.

[ReaperxKingx]

Originally Posted by JagdPanther

So if you had this understanding, why was your first response to point out an exception as if pointing out such a situation would totally defeat the point...?


I can get behind that, to a degree. I just don't see 22 reps as any real issue. It's a number. You always want to see better numbers, but this one isn't particularly concerning.

We can go back and forth with this, and we will most likely still arrive at different conclusions. My first response was more of what came at the top of my head at the time than thinking about it too deeply at the time.

As for his bench pressing, it is not a real concern on traditional pass rusher roles. He will succeed on pretty much any scheme in the NFL. I am speaking about my standpoint of my team's pass rusher situation which is the LEO. Which demands a lot more out of him and requires that above average muscle endurance.


Lets put this discussion to the side for now as it is now Pro Day. Which I place higher in emphasis than the combine because it feels more natural to these college guy unlike in the combine where it is more time restrictive on these guys and the media are eyeing them like a Hawk chasing a rabbit.

In particular, were you impress by Dee Ford's performance? His game film is already outstanding so there is nothing for me to pick apart against him unlike Clowney.

Also, Khalil Mack improves on his 40, numbered at 4.53.

[Mr. DJ]

Sproles cut, Moore cut, Thomas might be getting cut.

Any thoughts WD? (if you lurk around this time )

[ReaperxKingx]

I am surprise that no one brought up Tony Romo's contract being restructure. As well Champ Bailey being cut from the Broncos. Also, Jairus Byrd will most likely not return to the Bills unless he is willing to give a massive discount.

[Mr. DJ]

I was surprised by Romo restructuring his contract actually. Good guy Romo...now get us further into the playoffs dammit....

Hell, I forgot Champ Bailey was still active.

[ReaperxKingx]

Originally Posted by Mr. DJ

I was surprised by Romo restructuring his contract actually. Good guy Romo...now get us further into the playoffs dammit....

Hell, I forgot Champ Bailey was still active.

It was not surprising from the standpoint of the cap saalry when I looked at Romo's contract, however, I was certainly surprise when it actually happens.

Often, what is smart for a franchise doesn't seem to go that way in reality. Look at the recent signings of the Steelers is a prime example. I am a big fan of Polamalu, but at this age of his career. They should find the future at that position either in free agency or the draft as Polamalu isn't what he was a couple of years ago.

[Last Sinner]

Brandon Spikes is unlikely to return to New England. Guess they'll be after defense this draft.

So...what is New Orleans trying to do by cutting Sproles? Effectively conceding they can't be champions while Seattle is at the level they are and hoping they can reach a new peak in 3 years or so?

[ReaperxKingx]

Originally Posted by Last Sinner

Brandon Spikes is unlikely to return to New England. Guess they'll be after defense this draft.

So...what is New Orleans trying to do by cutting Sproles? Effectively conceding they can't be champions while Seattle is at the level they are and hoping they can reach a new peak in 3 years or so?

I believe Sproles was a cap casualty, his production this season was quite lower than they wanted. They save quite a bit, I think around 2 million instead of paying him over 3 million by keeping him. The Saints were one of the top 3 teams with bad cap salaries remember, desperate times.

[Samari]

Originally Posted by Mr. DJ

Sproles cut, Moore cut, Thomas might be getting cut.

Any thoughts WD? (if you lurk around this time )

The funny thing is that Jimmy Graham has taken to Twitter complaining about guys that have been cut. I hope he realizes he is a huge reason why they aren't with the team anymore.

[monir]

Originally Posted by Samari

I hope he realizes he is a huge reason why they aren't with the team anymore.

On the contrary, I think he went to social media for exactly that reason. He is being proactive by covering his bases.

[ReaperxKingx]

Very surprise that Cassel is staying with the Vikings.

[Suzuku]

Jags sign Red Bryant to 4 year deal worth $17m. Good signing, the 2 gap DE (Elephant) should now be fully ironed out if not a strength of the team with Alualu for depth, 3rd downs, and pass rushing sub-packages. Man, if Clowney could just somehow manage to fall to us and we could sign Bennett or Johnson we'd have a beast D-Line for the first time in like 7 years.

[ReaperxKingx]

Originally Posted by Suzuku

Jags sign Red Bryant to 4 year deal worth $17m. Good signing, the 2 gap DE (Elephant) should now be fully ironed out if not a strength of the team with Alualu for depth, 3rd downs, and pass rushing sub-packages. Man, if Clowney could just somehow manage to fall to us and we could sign Bennett or Johnson we'd have a beast D-Line for the first time in like 7 years.

I would much prefer Mack over Clowney right now as it stands.

For for Red Bryant, its a good signing. Alualu played too many snaps last season and was tired a lot. It is nice to get some help. What is left is the QB SAM, LEO, WILL, 2 OG, C, and possibly depth for the secondary and WR. I expect we will get a lot of those fill.

[Suzuku]

Mack doesn't really have anything over Clowney except maybe technique and that has more to do with playing longer. I'm also not completely sold on the idea of converting him into a full time LEO.

But yeah, I do expect us to feel a good deal of those needs. If all works out, hopefully either the LEO or QB will be addressed in the draft and we will also sign a LEO in free agency so the depth at that position will be good as well depending on what happens in the draft, we'll hopefully hit on a SAM somewhere in the draft, maybe Kyle Van Noy or Ryan Shazier in the second round, at least 2 out of the three O-Linemen needs will be filled (most likely LG and C), and yeah this draft is deep enough at CB and WR that we will find some gyms in later rounds especially with the amount of picks we have, assuming we don't pick Watkins in the first round anyway.

I think the 2015 offseason will be more about adding depth to positions than anything and shoring up the last 2-3 needs we have left. We'll probably have a good bit of cap space left next year too.

[ReaperxKingx]

Originally Posted by Suzuku

Mack doesn't really have anything over Clowney except maybe technique and that has more to do with playing longer. I'm also not completely sold on the idea of converting him into a full time LEO.

But yeah, I do expect us to feel a good deal of those needs. If all works out, hopefully either the LEO or QB will be addressed in the draft and we will also sign a LEO in free agency so the depth at that position will be good as well depending on what happens in the draft, we'll hopefully hit on a SAM somewhere in the draft, maybe Kyle Van Noy or Ryan Shazier in the second round, at least 2 out of the three O-Linemen needs will be filled (most likely LG and C), and yeah this draft is deep enough at CB and WR that we will find some gyms in later rounds especially with the amount of picks we have, assuming we don't pick Watkins in the first round anyway.

I think the 2015 offseason will be more about adding depth to positions than anything and shoring up the last 2-3 needs we have left. We'll probably have a good bit of cap space left next year too.

I am more concern about the effort situation than technique and skill set (though Mack is better than Clowney in both). Well, I haven't seen all his game film, only the ones from Clemson, UNC, Arkansas, Tennessee, Missouri, and Wisconsin. So I will have to wait before making final judgement.

Clowney is 2 years younger than Mack and has the higher ceiling, so I guess that is his biggest upside I see from him other than his speed.

As for the draft, depends what happens in free agency.

[Suzuku]

Maybe we should break down their measurables and see who ends up the better choice?

[ReaperxKingx]

Originally Posted by Suzuku

Maybe we should break down their measurables and see who ends up the better choice?

You could list them and we could analyze, but, I am a game film kind of person, which is why I am leaning towards Mack since he had a better showing even against top tier opponents.

Maybe when all the game film is fully posted then I can make a final decision, should be by April when all game film for everyone is posted.

[Suzuku]

I wouldn't be mad with Mack, he's probably top 3-4 in this draft (Clowney, Robinson, Watkins/Mack). I'm just a bit hesitant about trying to make him LEO full time, he didn't do a lot of straight up speed rushing with his hands in the dirt in college, there's not a lot of film of him doing that. He's versatile, but the main thing we're drafting him for, we're just hoping he can do based off of measurables is all I'm saying.

But if it works out and he ends up being a really good pass rusher with his hands in the dirt and being able to be moved all over the defense depending on the situation, we could have a pretty good D-Line, if not beast if we can manage to sign Johnson or Bennett. Mack-Johnson/Bennett-Branch at LEO, Marks, and Bryant-Alualu at the 2-gap DE (Elephant). The D-Line could become a real strength of the defense for the first time in about 7 years and that would automatically upgrade the secondary as well. Mack is also elite at defending the run, and as our defense is mostly about stopping the run and preventing long plays, having a player as versatile as him on that D-Line would be great. Then Ryan Shazier or Van Noy at SAM LB and the defense will be pretty solid at all levels...at least the starters. We'll have to add depth next year obviously, but I'm excited, if we draft the right players this year our defense could be great by 2015. Then we could hopefully trade up for a QB like Mariota or Winston next year (although I see Winston staying until 2016).

[ReaperxKingx]

Originally Posted by Suzuku

I wouldn't be mad with Mack, he's probably top 3-4 in this draft (Clowney, Robinson, Watkins/Mack). I'm just a bit hesitant about trying to make him LEO full time, he didn't do a lot of straight up speed rushing with his hands in the dirt in college, there's not a lot of film of him doing that. He's versatile, but the main thing we're drafting him for, we're just hoping he can do based off of measurables is all I'm saying.

But if it works out and he ends up being a really good pass rusher with his hands in the dirt and being able to be moved all over the defense depending on the situation, we could have a pretty good D-Line, if not beast if we can manage to sign Johnson or Bennett. Mack-Johnson/Bennett-Branch at LEO, Marks, and Bryant-Alualu at the 2-gap DE (Elephant). The D-Line could become a real strength of the defense for the first time in about 7 years and that would automatically upgrade the secondary as well. Mack is also elite at defending the run, and as our defense is mostly about stopping the run and preventing long plays, having a player as versatile as him on that D-Line would be great. Then Ryan Shazier or Van Noy at SAM LB and the defense will be pretty solid at all levels...at least the starters. We'll have to add depth next year obviously, but I'm excited, if we draft the right players this year our defense could be great by 2015. Then we could hopefully trade up for a QB like Mariota or Winston next year (although I see Winston staying until 2016).

There is a danger of that, base from what I have seen, he only done it twice with his hands on the ground. Ideally, Mack is more suited to be the SAM. However, I only see that happening if we sign a Michael Johnson, though that could be very expensive after looking at Everson Griffen big pay day at 5 years and 42.5 million.

Looking at it, I will not be mad if the Jaguars draft either Clowney or Mack, I trust their judgement. The Jaguars recently had a interview with Clowney though no reports or details are coming out of it aside from a video. Here it is:

[Suzuku]

yeah i watched that on the Jags site a couple days ago, lol at them bringing up Atlanta.

Also, after thinking about it some, maybe Mack would turn out to be better pick because of his versatility, especially if we get a Michael Johnson in free agency. We can move him all around the defense and he can make an impact everywhere, and on some downs we can play him at LEO. I saw him take three or four snaps with his hands in the ground as a DE in Buffalo's 3-4 in the Ohio State game and he did really well getting pressure on the QB all time. I think he'd best serve us as a gadget on defense basically, he's so versatile. Teams would have to constantly be trying to find him and figure out will he pressure or stop the run.