Code Geass (Generic discussion thread)

[ZeroSama]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

they make lelouch SUPER smart
and make suzaku SUPER strong and agile
that lelouch is bad at sports may be a running gag
but its a running gag in the same way that kallen getting into emberasing naked situations is a running gag
it has no baring on the plot

and all they really need to do is exagurate both of their respective skill
lelouch can predict what shnizel would say for several minutes and plan for every option of battle
suzaku can leap over KMF's and dodge machine gun bullets
THATS why they are the perfect pair, not becouse they fix eachothers weakness, but becouse they each are the best in their praticular field

and having suzaku as a total moron would make him pathetic as an antagonist (which he spends most of the time as)

Um no. They are the perfect pair because they cover each others weaknesses, not because they are the best at what they do. If they didn't cover each others weaknessess.....they would still have weakness for someone to exploit.

Schenziel according to the show is the better strategist(Lelouch just read him better that one time) and Bismark is a better fighter than Suzaku(he just got shafted because Suzaku had a Jesus mech. If he had a 9th gen mech Suzaku is screwed).

And so what if they make Suzaku a moron? Ever hear the phrase "evil wins because good is dumb"? I mean theirs nothing wrong with him being stupid. You don't need to be smart(or intensively trained apparently) to pilot a mecha in anime all you need is some form of plot aid(minosky particles, ultimate co-ordinator, spiral energy, gn particles the force(lol)), brains take a backseat to hotbloodness.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by ZeroSama

However while they clearly showed with Lelouch how he was a genius but woefully physically inedaquate when compared to, well, just about anything, the same cannot be said about Suzaku. I mean Suzaku has been shown to be superhuman running along walls, breaking iron with a kick and jumping 30 feet in the air but he has never been shown to be stupid, terribly naive but never stupid.

The greatest in-story evidence to suggest Suzaku's mental deficiency, is revolving around the incident with his attempted drugging of Kallen. Nevermind the fact that the drug isn't even a truth serum and as such useless, Suzaku didn't even need to do that. All Suzaku had to do was to visit the people who are watching Lulu, to confirm the fact that they were compromised.
He finally did this later, when it should have been his first action to begin with.

The fact that even though he suspect something is wrong with the people watching Lulu, Suzaku didn't try the most direct approach in finding out what's wrong, is a sign of decision making deficiency.

[ZeroSama]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

The greatest in-story evidence to suggest Suzaku's mental deficiency, is revolving around the incident with his attempted drugging of Kallen. Nevermind the fact that the drug isn't even a truth serum and as such useless, Suzaku didn't even need to do that. All Suzaku had to do was to visit the people who are watching Lulu, to confirm the fact that they were compromised.
He finally did this later, when it should have been his first action to begin with.

The fact that even though he suspect something is wrong with the people watching Lulu, Suzaku didn't try the most direct approach in finding out what's wrong, is a sign of decision making deficiency.

Whats the point? If he suspected Lelouch was Zero again, then its likely for him to suspect that the watchers have been compromised totally, yet Villeta, a person he knows has been geassed making her immune is still sending out reports that everything is fine up until he vists. It was only because Rolo, Lelouch, Sayako and Villeta had buggered off somewhere at the sametime and all the guards are going "its fine" that he catches on, if Sayako(as Lelouch), Rolo and Villeta where there(which he has no way of knowing they weren't) then chances are he'd been fooled. I mean everyone else was fooled right?

What he thinks the refrain'll do, i don't know. Maybe try and turn her into a junkie so she rats Lelouch out for her next fix or maybe just for the lulz of hurting someone Lelouch cares about, take your pick.

Also it wouldn't be surprising if his emotions have interefered with his judgement. I mean its because of his emotions that Lelouch gets to carry the idiot ball most of the time in CG, why should Suzaku be any different?

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by ZeroSama

Whats the point? If he suspected Lelouch was Zero again, then its likely for him to suspect that the watchers have been compromised totally, yet Villeta, a person he knows has been geassed making her immune is still sending out reports that everything is fine up until he vists.

And why exactly did he NOT visit them earlier, instead of trying to drug a prisoner with a useless hallucinogen?

There was nothing that prevents Suzaku from making a visit. He is high enough in the hierarchy to make an inspection unannounced. If you think something is wrong, you make a house-call. This is a standard first-response anyone should have done. The fact is, Suzaku had not believed for a second that "everything is fine", yet didn't respond properly. This isn't because of emotions, IMO; I view this as evidence that Suzaku has trouble dealing with being a manager and leader.

[ZeroSama]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

And why exactly did he NOT visit them earlier, instead of trying to drug a prisoner with a useless hallucinogen?

There was nothing that prevents Suzaku from making a visit. He is high enough in the hierarchy to make an inspection unannounced. If you think something is wrong, you make a house-call. This is a standard first-response anyone should have done. The fact is, Suzaku had not believed for a second that "everything is fine", yet didn't respond properly. This isn't because of emotions, IMO; I view this as evidence that Suzaku has trouble dealing with being a manager and leader.

Suzaku only truly suspected Lelouch was Zero again after the events at the SAZ because of how well he knew how Suzaku would react to the situation. Suzaku however had already been to Ashford already as a a student by that stage and didn't notice anything off, had visited Villeta, Rolo and the rest of the specials and they assured him everything was surefine and the student council all said Lelouch was faffing about at Ashford while Zero was lulzing in China.

In his head if things are truly as they shouldbe or if they are completely compromised going to Ashford will only get him reassured once more that everything is surefine. Therefore he tries and gets outside confirmation that lelouch is Zero by turning kallen into a junkie.


Also it has always been about emotions buggering up his decisions. I mean on one hand in EP 8 when Lelouch says "I'll bring 1 million people to the SAZ if you let me bugger off" Suzaku is like let a criminal escape? NOOOOOOOOOO. Then we have him in EP 1 telling Chuckie that "I'll be the one to kill Zero" contrasted with him in EP9 saving Zero from a deranged table humper and having to be told that "you're supposed to hate Zero" and in EP 17 agreeing to help Lelouch(who he knows is Zero by this time) even though he can tell Lelouch is lying through his teeth. Heck even in the last Ep when Lelouch gives him the mask and says you'll be the one to kill me, Suzaku is like "Lelouch do you really want to go through with this?" yet just after whacking mom and dad he's like "I'll kill u bitch 4 Euphie".

Seriously Suzaku doesn't know what he bloody wants. He doesn't know if he wants Lelouch to be Zero so he can rage at him for what happened to Euphie or Lelouch not to be Zero so they can be semi-friends. If this doesn't show him as being emotionaly compromised in his judgement in relation to anything about Lelouch, I don't know what does.

[bladeofdarkness]

Suzaku was hoping the drug would strip kallen of her will power and make her stop resisting and just admit what BOTH of them know that she is hiding (suzaku is certain of it). Given that most drugs have that effect, that doesn't make suzaku an idiot. Just a dick

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

Suzaku was hoping the drug would strip kallen of her will power and make her stop resisting and just admit what BOTH of them know that she is hiding (suzaku is certain of it). Given that most drugs have that effect, that doesn't make suzaku an idiot. Just a dick

Not really. The drug would just randomly rehash Kallen's memories, which means Suzaku wouldn't know if Kallen is talking about events in season 1 or season 2.

Suzaku however had already been to Ashford already as a a student by that stage and didn't notice anything off, had visited Villeta, Rolo and the rest of the specials and they assured him everything was surefine and the student council all said Lelouch was faffing about at Ashford while Zero was lulzing in China.

If Suzaku doesn't believe them, then THEY should have been the ones who are drugged and/or tortured for info, not Kallen. Somebody was lying; Suzaku should find out who that is, instead of monkeying around with a prisoner.

[ZeroSama]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Not really. The drug would just randomly rehash Kallen's memories, which means Suzaku wouldn't know if Kallen is talking about events in season 1 or season 2.

If Suzaku doesn't believe them, then THEY should have been the ones who are drugged and/or tortured for info, not Kallen. Somebody was lying; Suzaku should find out who that is, instead of monkeying around with a prisoner.

If Suzaku belived they had been compromised(with geass most likely) then he will know they will never go against the order they were given no matter what happens(he can't). Why would he have them tortured? Their just more poor buggers who got screwed over by Lelouchs geass and their on his team to boot. Kallen is on the opposing team. Shes fair game plus it has the added benefit of pissing off Lelouch and ensuring that if by some stroke luck she is rescued, they get a junkie back rather than an ace pilot.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by ZeroSama

If Suzaku belived they had been compromised(with geass most likely) then he will know they will never go against the order they were given no matter what happens(he can't). Why would he have them tortured? Their just more poor buggers who got screwed over by Lelouchs geass and their on his team to boot.

If they aren't on his team anymore, then why not torture them?

No matter what he does with Kallen, as long as the Intelligence Agency contradict him Suzaku would convince no one else. Suzaku need proof that the Intel is wrong, but you can't do that without confronting the evidence directly. Suzaku needed to request the surveillance logs, as well as checking for holes in the time schedule.

The Intel team is telling him and everyone else that there is nothing wrong. Even if Kallen says otherwise, it is still the words of an enemy against the words of government officials. Suzaku need to prove the surveillance team is wrong, but he did nothing to that effect.

All it took, in the end, was for Suzaku to visit them directly. It's what Lulu would have done.

[bladeofdarkness]

oh come on
say what you want about suzaku, but you cant really say that he was planning on turning kallen into a junkie
do you expect me to believe he was PLANNING on TURNING her into a junkie (a long process that requires more then one injection, you dont get addicted on the very first use)
and then use her addiction to get her to tell him what he wants ?
it takes sheirly dying just to get him to gather the resolve to do anything other then ASKING her about lelouch
and he cant even go through with THAT in the end
putting aside the fact that there was no way in hell nunnaly would ever even let him anywhere NEAR kallen after the first time (kallen would have no reason to keep quite about something like that, she never told nunnaly becouse he didnt do it)
doing what your saying is something pure EVIL
and suzaku isnt capable of that at that stage (maybe after turn 19)

[morbosfist]

He would have done it by accident had he gone through with it. Refrain is quite addictive. It's not like he had thought it out that far, though.

[bladeofdarkness]

but he was certaintly not PLANNING on it
which is what zerosama seems to implay

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

but he was certaintly not PLANNING on it
which is what zerosama seems to implay

Yes, this much is true. Suzaku was just being an malicious idiot, not a downright monster.

[Betteroffer]

Thanks to Blade, Morbo, and Frost for the corrections on my PD comments.

It's more of a possible plot hole than a jab at Suzaku's ability to follow the guidlines of the very system he supossedly is OCD about following, but I always wondered why nobody caught onto the fact that Lelouch got his memories back after he used his Geass to kill Carthage Team in Babel Tower and announced himself as Lelouch Vi Britannia. If the Thought Elevators allowed one to view the memories of the dead (like Charles was with Clovis apparently) then given the time Charles and V.V. spend in there, they should have checked on the soldiers' memories, at which point they would have known Lelouch was 'back.'

[azul120]

Originally Posted by ZeroSama

Suzaku only truly suspected Lelouch was Zero again after the events at the SAZ because of how well he knew how Suzaku would react to the situation. Suzaku however had already been to Ashford already as a a student by that stage and didn't notice anything off, had visited Villeta, Rolo and the rest of the specials and they assured him everything was surefine and the student council all said Lelouch was faffing about at Ashford while Zero was lulzing in China.

In his head if things are truly as they shouldbe or if they are completely compromised going to Ashford will only get him reassured once more that everything is surefine. Therefore he tries and gets outside confirmation that lelouch is Zero by turning kallen into a junkie.


Also it has always been about emotions buggering up his decisions. I mean on one hand in EP 8 when Lelouch says "I'll bring 1 million people to the SAZ if you let me bugger off" Suzaku is like let a criminal escape? NOOOOOOOOOO. Then we have him in EP 1 telling Chuckie that "I'll be the one to kill Zero" contrasted with him in EP9 saving Zero from a deranged table humper and having to be told that "you're supposed to hate Zero" and in EP 17 agreeing to help Lelouch(who he knows is Zero by this time) even though he can tell Lelouch is lying through his teeth.

Lelouch was lying to cover up his nobler side, because he didn't feel he deserved to show it in front of Suzaku at the time. He just wanted Suzaku's help, and having nothing getting in the way of him apologizing was evidently what Lelouch felt was right.

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by Betteroffer

It's more of a possible plot hole than a jab at Suzaku's ability to follow the guidlines of the very system he supossedly is OCD about following, but I always wondered why nobody caught onto the fact that Lelouch got his memories back after he used his Geass to kill Carthage Team in Babel Tower and announced himself as Lelouch Vi Britannia. If the Thought Elevators allowed one to view the memories of the dead (like Charles was with Clovis apparently) then given the time Charles and V.V. spend in there, they should have checked on the soldiers' memories, at which point they would have known Lelouch was 'back.'

I swear I've answered this before. Aside from the fact that they are never shown to be capable of that aside from some offhand mention, how are they supposed to dive through an almost infinite sea of memories to find the memories of some random dead dude? It's like finding a needle in a haystack.

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by ZeroSama

A quick question for everyone else here. Does anyone else here think that Taniguchi and Okuchi didn't make Suzaku dumb enough?

I mean the whole Lelouch-Suzaku relationship thing is supposed to be how they make up for the others shortcomings and how they are unstoppable when they work together right.

However while they clearly showed with Lelouch how he was a genius but woefully physically inedaquate when compared to, well, just about anything, the same cannot be said about Suzaku. I mean Suzaku has been shown to be superhuman running along walls, breaking iron with a kick and jumping 30 feet in the air but he has never been shown to be stupid, terribly naive but never stupid.
If he was dumb he would never have thought to use Nunnally as a trap to discover if Lelouch was Zero again amongst other things.


They should either have increased Lelouchs physical prowess to that of a normal teenagers or shaved about 20 points off Suzakus I.Q to even it out a bit because seriously if they make Lelouch so pitifull physically, they have to make Suzaku a serious fucktard to maintain balance.

His a Japanese person who works for Britannia. How dumb do you want him to be? Forrest Gump?

I mean he probably drinks cofee that the soldiers took a piss in.

[azul120]

I guess the only inconsistency is that he isn't the biggest idiot on the show. (That distinction of course is essentially Gino's.)

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by azul120

I guess the only inconsistency is that he isn't the biggest idiot on the show. (That distinction of course is essentially Gino's.)

I have to go with Villeta, I mean in one episode she wears a bathing suit whose bottom is basically a string and then bitches about how she agreed to wear it, and the only thing holding her to Lelouch is the fact that he knows she once dated Ougi when she had amnesia. That's it, it's Lelouch's word against her word.

[Eleonore Magilinon]

First I want to thank you, Betteroffer, for reading my post and giving a detailed and constructed answer, and no worries, as long as it's constructive I can handle any criticism of any character. I hope it's ok for to still constructively put some arguments to that.
I feel that you certainly have a point, but still, most of the examples you have given could be interpreted rather differently.

Also I've read (ok, it was geasswiki, and that's why I'm asking) that in Knights of Round-centered light novels (and they do exist for sure since they're selling them on japAmazon) Gino is said to fall in love with their family's japanese (eleven) maid (although of course nothing good came out of this) when he was 14 and that shows that he didn't care about racial differences and that he, well, did take non-Britannian's for humans. I would be glad if somebody confirms that info.

On the point of him (or others) being/not being skilled pilot, I thought about and... I wonder, who we consider "awesome pilot". Ok, we can say Karen and Suzaku belong to the category, and Bismark (and Marianne), and Li Xingke too. But seriously, who else? The way our standards are, we're saying that everybody else it's good enough. But well, there can't be just two good pilots in whole Britannian army *(and for others, it comes to be less), so maybe we're just setting standards too high. And from that point of view, both Gino and even Anya are tolerably good. And Jeremiah too, btw. They tell KoR about appeared Karen that she's the pilot who beated Lord Jeremiah implying she must be great and thus Jeremiah was a great pilot too, even before becoming a cyborg.

Originally Posted by Betteroffer

There are many types of prejudice. Agressive, like s1 Jeremiah's, and more passive, like Gino. Gino may not actively 'hate' non-Britannians, but he clearly does NOT see them as equal to humans i.e. Britannians. As far as the Japanese, he joked about having the "wonderful pretext to purge them" at Nunally's SAZ in R2. That was him saying "If they do something I get to shoot them, and I want to shoot them because it will be fun." Remember, this was about a million people, and only a few were actually BK. Most were civilians and children, but they weren't human in his eyes; they were something to shoot at, again for fun.

He may not enjou killing people, but he does NOT consider the Japanese or ANY other non-Britannian as a person. This is called being prejudice, and he DOES enjoy killing non-persons.

Well, to add to what I've said in the beginning about light novels... Although I admit him saying what you've quoted but if we are too view it your way it seems like he would enjoy shooting the crowd, and I seriously can't see him doing that... I think (although it's cruel) that he firstly meant it as a joke (and well, his jokes are sometimes a bit too much) and secondly, even if he did mean that, he didn't see it as shooting everybody... He said "if they rebel", and rebellion means using some Knightmares (or else it's just useless) and he was looking forward some combat on the principle "soldier vs soldier" and not just shooting defenceless people of any nation. Because if we assume he does enjoy it, I see absolutely no reason for him to stop Bradly from torturing Karen and for some reason he did (and it certainly was't him trying to show off his "nobility"). Although the exact sentence was a bit different to this, but with my really imperfect japanese I've heard "katsu" in that sentence, and that doesn't stand only for "purge", buy just to "crash", "break" etc. and could be used about only the active rebels. Also unlike Guilbert for example, he wasn't so eager to mark that million people criminals and attack them, he just said it's Suzaku's decision.
But what did worry me in that story with Zero is the way he thought Zero's deal is good one. Although he was true that without their leader rebels won't be a serious threat any more, but somehow it was low... But it could be explained as him not paying much attention to past sins like in Karen's situation later.

Originally Posted by Betteroffer

He may not go around kicking Japanese people he sees on the street, but he does nothing to try to change the system that says it's okay to. He is complacent in how things are because his position in life is good (through no virtue of his own). He has no desire to help or understand others, only to have fun. This is demonstrated when he keeps asking Kallen to accept her Britannian blood over her Japanese blood. Kallen has grown up in a bad life, and lucked into a good family with the Stadtfelds, but helping others at risk to her own life is more important to her than having any easy life for herself. Gino sees this and thinks she is stupid. He never tries to understand what makes her feels this way, he just keeps saying "But you could have an easier life."

Well, it is his nature, at least in the beginning. He's not he has any grand ideas in his head, same for great idea for changing things... One might say it takes a person with determination to actually try something like changing the system. He's just different. But basicly it's just good way to rephrase your statement that he doesn't care much but likes to have fun. But then, members of the Ashfrord Student Council weren't so eager to change the system either, but they're great people, aren't they (I mean most ordinary ones like Rivalz, Sharley, Milly - they haven't tried to protect "elevens" but they did try to help Karen because for them, rebel or not, she was jsut an important friend, even after then knew she was lying to them) Also I disagree that it's demonstrated in his conversation with Karen. He's merely surprised that she so desicivly chose Japan over Britannia, and pointing out she has a choice. And you know, if I felt right the author's opinion on this, they're with Gino. I mean, she didn't just choose japanese blood over britannian's because she felt it oh so unfair for japanese to be that way. It rather originated from her hatred for her britannian's father who lead her japanese mother to be the way she is. She denying Britannia the same way many britannian's deny japanese (or eleven), and her hatred for Britannia somhow remind's of Lelouch's.
Remember how it all ends (happily) - she does to Ashford while having her favorite hair style and wearing Gurren's key on chain, and it means that she finally accepted both sides of her, both japanese and britannian. And Gino's act was kind of a step in that direction. Pointing out that she's not only japanese, but she's also britannian, and she could choose either side, it's just up to her.
And I haven't seen Gino saying or implying he's stupid while he said all that.

Plus about him ignoring others... Again, from his actions when stopping Bradly we may assume that he would probably done the same if he had seen it on the streets, although in my opinion it would depend on the situation.

Originally Posted by Betteroffer

This is also ignoring the fact that she is a criminal in his country's eyes. He's saying that the system should bend over and release a known killer, just because he finds her 'hot' and interesting.

Taking into account that Shneizel later sides with Black Knights thus completely overlooking all their past deeds, I can't see it as such an awful act. Plus her crimes... if we differiate crimes into the group that should be punished by either sides as it's immoral and crimes of being on the opposite side and basicly doing the same thing they did themselves... Yes, I also see Gino not paying attention to that, but I see it like he just see it the same, their side or not, it's just fighting. Knowing what they're doing themselves he doesn't consider other person doing the same on the other side as "unforgivable criminal".

Originally Posted by Betteroffer

He's only loyal to Britannia because it serves his interest. When Lelouch was still making Britannia a more just place, before attacking the UFN, Gino helped in an attempt to KILL Lelouch because he had destroyed the nobility structure.

He turned on an Empire that was helping the world (at the time) because he was personally inconvenienced by it.

Well, you of course can interpret it differently, but I see it firstly as him (as most of BK besides Tamaki and other forces opposing Lelouch) seeing through Lelouch's "generous" moves rather than being bothered by the inconvieniences (actually I don't remember him actually bringing up conviniences of being noble or regretting loosing them one bit), since he's, well... not completely stupid, although I'm not even dreaming to say he's exeptionally smart. Plus at that time he was just stoping what actually was coup d'etat, not accepting Emperor who killed the previous one. It's not the matter of his rule being good or bad, but simply the way he did it. And don't see any proof that his actions were based on his dislike for abolishment of noble system or something of the sort.

Originally Posted by Betteroffer

After Suzaku was traumatized by dropping the FLEIJA on Tokyo, Gino made one comment (that made no sense at all) and then went off to play pool rather than help with relief efforts around the crater or at Ashford. He left Suzaku in the bottom of that hole for a full day to wallow in his grief and confusion. Then when Suzaku came back talking about things he never normally talked about, Gino didn't say "Sit down and talk to me, you are obviously hurt and confused and need help." He said "Suzaku you traitor!" He abandoned a guy he called a friend and then turned on him after two sentences.

In the last PD it is shown that Gino has not kept in contact with Kallen or ANY member of the Ashford student council at all in over 7 months. Not even by mail or phone. He then gets defensive when called out on it.

So no he does not care about his 'friends' either. He cares about his own entertainment, and nothing else.

Here comes a difficult part. I rewatched that and one scene really doesn't make sense to me, and scene in general, not just Gino in it.
But about FLEIJA accident we should start with his shocked face after seeing the effect and saying "That's not war anymore..." It we combine in with his face's expression at the time I would assume the continuation was "but just a massacre". And that would be him actually caring about lives of civilians.

About Suzaku - here it starts to stop making sense, but what I can say on it is the fact (which Gino most probably didn't consider though) that Suzaku is what in socionic (well, theory in phycology) is called introvert, person rather thinking just by himself then sharing his thoughts with others. So basicly he wouldn't talk with anybody anyway, and if he didn't share things worrying him even with Euphie (and one time with Lelouch in the end of ep.23 S1 was rather him declaring his decision than discussing something), he certainly wouldn't with Gino. Although again, I doubt it was Gino's train of thought.
But then the whole idea of them playing pool after such tragedy. Ok, Gino, but Cecile is quite kindhearted person no matter how you look on it. It's either them getting this used to such tragedies (highly doubtful) or just... author's wanted a joke-relief moment (I rarely blame it on authors, but this might be the case, plus they needed the some of the ball falling into the hole in the critical moment).
And when he did notice something was off with Suzaku he did try to say that he shouldn;t say all this, it isn't like that... And after things Suzaku said I wouldn't blame Gino for turning on him. Damn, he was proposing a coup d'etat, evenb Cornelia was shocked. And the situation (with Shneizel present expecially) didn't invite to try and convince him that "it's not like him, snap out of it". Suzaku was unstable, but it wasn't possible to convince him of that at the moment.

And about him not caring about his friends... I just remember his seriously worried face when Anya fell (during fight with Chinese and BK forces arounf ep.9), much more than just replacable ally. And according to the posts (please tell the stupid me where did you get this translations, where is it from?) he did keep in touch with Ashford students)
And also, when Karen was imprisoned, he did come to show her Suzaku's album and tell about him... I felt he tried to explain Suzaku's character to her so that she understood him better, and I see it like an act of a friend, caring one.

Originally Posted by Betteroffer

For the first one, yes as far as I know we are supposed to assume that he did basically wander around as we saw. It could be assumed that C.C. may have said or implied something about going to Japan before abandoning him, or perhaps she made trips there for some reason while she was watching him. In fact, she could have even brought him with her to Japan before abandoning him, though this one seems unlikely.

Hm, knowing she abandoned him hoping he'll stay where he is, not, we can be quite sure she tried to hide her destination from him. And in that case, wondering around... em, the world is wast)))))
I'm just trying to find any explanation better than ordinary "luck". There are no coinsidences.

Originally Posted by Betteroffer

I sadly can't say much about Lloyd. He was definately interesting, but any possible backstory he might have had was thrown out when the staff had to redo the second season. The snippets about Lloyd's past were just one of several implied scenes in R2 that seemed to do little more than frustrate the audience, and horribly violate the idea of Chekov's Gun.

Well, I do expect Lloyd's and Rakshata's past story OVA as first on my list of probabilities (even C.C.'s name is second, but they have to make OVA about that one), but I wonder about his more distant past... How he came to be that way...
And also, after closely rewatching around 5 last eps of R2 I improved my opinion of him greatly. Seems like they didn't just support the two with Cecile, they support them after coming to know about the plan. I see it as quite honorable thing to do, expecially because it was both dangerous while before Zero Requiem and after because they might still suffer for supporting him (ok, maybe after they were almost executed it's off mark, but still)... He's great, adn Cecile too. But I started to see her a bit colder than I thought she was.

And on the other note, about Suzaku, don't call him an antagonist! I thought this series is one of greatest example, together with Gundam SEED, of not supporting any side but showing things as they are, wtih different people and their different goals... And about him being stupid... it's not like he's not smart, but it's as Lloyd said, his inner contradictions are always dragging him down, contradictions between peaceful world he dreams of and reality, he tries to deal with hush reality while not letting go of his ideals because he knows that if he does, he'll loose himself (as he did for a while around ep.20, it's so cute that even in getting a little crazy he and Lelouch worked on pair).