Rozen Maiden Zurückspulen - Episode 4 Discussion / Poll

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Traece

Indeed. Shinku is very different from previous seasons. Personally, I think her change in tone is for the worse. I would expect her to be more like season 1 Shinku now than ever before, since she's faced with what is essentially a stranger again. Her voice lacks that tinge of authority I liked. I had hoped that it wouldn't be limited to the recap, but unfortunately it seems to be intentional. That's normal speech, though. When she's exerting authority she certainly does retain that tone. Though, I guess it shouldn't be surprising that she's become a bit nicer in all this time. It's hard to decide on this, but I do miss it.

Shinku is clearly in desperate straits, and it shows. In the original Rozen Maiden, a certain comfort level existed at Jun's place. And it helped that most of the Rozen Maidens became friendly with one another, and most respected Shinku. I still recall them sitting around the TV, relaxing as they watch Detective Kun-Kun. It was, for a time, a pretty easy-going and relaxed atmosphere for the Rozen Maidens.

But the mood is much more oppressive and tense here, for many obvious reasons. It makes sense to me that this would weigh on Shinku as well, taking a bit of ease and color away from her personality, and making her a bit more subdued in talking to Jun.

There's also the fact that this Jun is an adult living an adult lifestyle, and I think at some level Shinku respects that. When Jun told Shinku he was going to work, he was very matter of fact about it. He was clearly implying to Shinku "What I'm doing now is non-negotiable. You're going to have to put up with it, as it's an essential part of my life. And try not to mess up my apartment while I'm gone, please." Shinku is simply not in a position to lord over Adult!Jun like she was Teenage!Jun. She can demand tea from him, and a certain degree of care and consideration, but that's it.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

I agree with almost everything you said, and for a multitude of reasons this is easily my favorite RM to date. But I sure disagree that Shinku hasn't changed "one bit". I found her to be much more subdued, and I would describe her general mood as "fatalistic". It matches the mood of the series perfectly.

She is indeed more subdued as a result of her current predicament, but her personality is still the same. She doesn't seem all that different to me. I'm comparing her to her manga self by the way, I've never watched the previous anime seasons which I heard were quite different from the manga.

[Subayai]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

One other thing - I have to really wonder why they bothered doing the first episode the way they did. Given the careful, meticulous plot development since then, it's not like viewers would have been lost without it. This episode just flatout tells us the most plot relevant aspects of that first episode (i.e. that two of the Rozen Maidens have already been wiped out). Heck, I think a complete newcomer to the Rozen Maiden world would not feel lost jumping in right at Episode 2 and watching on from there. They obviously wouldn't have all the knowledge of a more seasoned viewer and/or manga reader, but there's nothing this show brings to the fore without having it explained/presented well.

I completely agree with this. They could have skipped that first episode entirely and everyone would be able to follow the plot the same. It's even possible that the first episode makes things more confusing for some viewers, given the very fast pace.

Things like that scene where Suigintou takes Souseiseki's Rosa Mystica have a big emotional effect in the manga, but in that first episode there is none because it is so sudden and it happens so fast. If they just wanted to inform the viewers that such an event happened in the past, it is enough to have a character make a mention of it in the appropriate point of the anime. Curious viewers then could go and read the first manga for the "full version" of the events.

On the other hand, no Rozen Maidens appear on Episode 2. So maybe the director thought that no dolls on the first episode would be a turn off for some viewers. After all, the dolls are supposed to be the main characters here.

But it was still a bad idea to start with that fast paced episode, I think. Other than that, I have no complaints with this adaptation so far.

[Kaoru Chujo]

Excellent episode. In previous seasons, my interest has always petered out after a few episodes. In this season, my interest is growing week by week.

I understand the complaints about episode one, but for me it was exactly right. It helped me get my bearings, and allows me to feel the perilous situation we are in. Without it, Shinku would have seemed a worry-wart in this episode, and Kirakishou's appearance silly.

As it is, I am just bowing down in worship of Sawashiro Miyuki. Now, that's voice-acting.

[Kismet-chan]

A great episode. Sawashiro's acting was especially good as always. And Chiemi Chiba is ridiculously good as Kirakishou every time she does get some lines. Dat laugh.

I can't wait for the next episode. Finally, more Suigintou in my empty life!

[Mubyoshi]

Wooooo things are starting to pick up. Can't get over the fact of how cute all the rozen maidens are, even Shinku haha. I'm probably the only one, but I really like the ost, like the one that was used when Jun wound up Shinku.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

I understand the complaints about episode one, but for me it was exactly right. It helped me get my bearings, and allows me to feel the perilous situation we are in. Without it, Shinku would have seemed a worry-wart in this episode, and Kirakishou's appearance silly.

Yeah, I discussed this in the Episode 1 thread when I finally watched it, but I feel the same way. In a way, it was a sort of twisted foreshadowing that increased the stark contrast that followed. Even if they're going back and referring to the things we're supposed to know again as the story goes forward, we viewers are also supposed to be well-aware of both perspectives before the adult Jun is told. So there's what we know, what Teenage Jun knows, and what Adult Jun knows (and how the plot is developing), and everything is on a collision course. We're deliberately supposed to be seeing all the angles, and to be aware of Teenage Jun's predicament before Adult Jun's story starts (since it adds to the sense of urgency and tension, despite the slow pace).

[Chiaki_chan]

I hope not to be wrong is that its mean in this alternat dimention there are also "double" of Rozen Maiden, who like Shinku were manufactured to contain the soul of rozen maiden seal ?

[Calca]

Originally Posted by Chiaki_chan

I hope not to be wrong is that its mean in this alternat dimention there are also "double" of Rozen Maiden, who like Shinku were manufactured to contain the soul of rozen maiden seal ?

No, they explained in this episode that the moment older Jun chose "Unwind" the Rozen Maiden did not exist at all in the world. Hence the no results during his Google search.

[Chiaki_chan]

Originally Posted by Calca

No, they explained in this episode that the moment older Jun chose "Unwind" the Rozen Maiden did not exist at all in the world. Hence the no results during his Google search.

yes but Now that Jun these "dimension" has created a Shinku its mean that another person can and probably creates another Rozen Maiden, eg co-worker Jun (she has a key so she has created or find one of Rozen Maiden). Same for the girl with Suiginto, no?
that Rozen is not exist in this world ok but as with Jun the other doll have been manufactured in the same way

[aeriolewinters]

Shinku's explanation is that if jun chose to wind, the rozen maidens don't exist... which kinda gives the

Spoiler:

Jun = Rozen/Rozen's reincarnation Theory

meaning.

Spoiler:

It wouldn't make sense why Jun or any reincarnation of his is the catalyst for RM's existence

The concept does make it possible that the nomad continuity exists within the multiverse.

[Calca]

Originally Posted by Chiaki_chan

yes but Now that Jun these "dimension" has created a Shinku its mean that another person can and probably creates another Rozen Maiden, eg co-worker Jun (she has a key so she has created or find one of Rozen Maiden). Same for the girl with Suiginto, no?
that Rozen is not exist in this world ok but as with Jun the other doll have been manufactured in the same way

The dimension did not create the Shinku. She said herself she was a stranger in the world and did not belong there.

[Chiaki_chan]

So be it Shinku or other Rozen of the world so they should not be there, so they are just soul's Rozen captured ? and they are all in the "body" that are not theirs?

[Calca]

Originally Posted by Chiaki_chan

So be it Shinku or other Rozen of the world so they should not be there, so they are just soul's Rozen captured ? and they are all in the "body" that are not theirs?

Shinku had to have Hollie actively transport her Roza Mystica into the Unwound dimension for her to even exist. Even then as Shinku said, the body will not last more than 7 days.

I don't know if your English is too good but basically, the body that Shinku is using right now is indeed not hers. Her real body is trapped in the N-Field. Shinku is basically an invader into Unwound Jun's universe and she does not belong there.

[Chiaki_chan]

Originally Posted by Calca

Shinku had to have Hollie actively transport her Roza Mystica into the Unwound dimension for her to even exist. Even then as Shinku said, the body will not last more than 7 days.

I don't know if your English is too good but basically, the body that Shinku is using right now is indeed not hers. Her real body is trapped in the N-Field. Shinku is basically an invader into Unwound Jun's universe and she does not belong there.

yeah.. sorry for my english ... is very bad T-T ^^"

and ok for your explain and is the the same goes for Suiginto? next episode is here yeah?

[aeriolewinters]

Originally Posted by Chiaki_chan

yeah.. sorry for my english ... is very bad T-T ^^"

and ok for your explain and is the the same goes for Suiginto? next episode is here yeah?

no, Suigintou's, and

Spoiler:

Suiseiseki's

real bodies are in the n-field. the problem with shinku's body is that it was caught in Kirakishou's web.

[Moeterum]

No episode this week?

[QueenNori]

Episode 5 just aired.

[AbZeroNow]

Originally Posted by Moeterum

No episode this week?

I usually PM a Mod around this time to try to get the episode thread up (and the CR stream is still hours away).

Hopefully Episode 5 thread will be up in a few hours.

[Guido]

Adult Jun's rocky, head-start relationship with Shinku would give me an idea at how young Jun found himself dragged over the edge by Shinku's elitist demands at the start of the first Rozen Maiden series.

This is not a complain, but rather that's how Shinku is and becomes so characteristically epic onscreen.

To drive insult upon Jun it would have been better for the writers to make Shinku asked Jun an array of seemingly ending questions regarding how he prepared the tea, then drinking it and she ending the session with a flat, "it's cold".


Don't have to complain about the episode, as I saw a change upon adult Jun's disposition and attitude to better appreciate and interact with the outside world; his conversation with Saito is a testament to my above statement.


TBH, I think that adult Jun shouldn't dabble too much in his thoughts about how his life would have turned out had he rewound. IMO, what matters is the present, and what one can do here and Now.


Now, the pressing matter is that KiraKishou finally has gathered herself at adult Jun's doorstep, figuratively speaking, and two words describe her: psychotically insane; if she's imitating what Shinku said, then that alone speaks volumes about her personality.