Macross Frontier - Episode 12 Discussion / Poll

[Burner of Anime]

Originally Posted by kari-no-sugata

Having not seen the original Macross, have we seen Zents faint / get nosebleeds in similar situations before?

Effects range from stunned, confused, berserk and going up to unconscious.

Mostly it's from discovering that girls are not for fighting That and Meltrans getting hit by the POWER OF ROCK

[Mecha_Trueno]

i've got one thing to say about this episode...........
i prefer the macross 7 sound boosters!

[KaleRylan]

I have one thing to say about this episode, aside from the very interesting ending.

And that is, I am absolutely stunned by how much of jackass Alto was to Sheryl in this episode.

I mean

Spoiler for Macross Frontier Episode 12:

what the hell was up with Mikhael's(sp?) 'you need to think of Ranka's feelings after coming all this way' crap? What about the woman who offered you the one present you were willing to abandon everyone else in order to get it, who then collapsed from exhaustion and was held hostage with threats made on her life. Ranka hasn't gone through anything in this episode,even the all this way was nothing since they used the newer, fancier fold engine, under normal circumstances you pay attention to the sick first and foremost. Hell, I mean Sheryl so wanted to give him a sky that she tried to climb out of her sickbed to do it. And then what does Alto do, he decides to take his joyride in the skies with the OTHER GIRL. Now I'll admit that as good a character as I think Ranka is, the fact that she looks so young creeps me out for a love interest so I'm a Sheryl fan. However, even if you reversed the roles I would still be infuriated by how much of an indecisive ass they made Alto into with this one move. I mean, if someone offers you a present that is obviously designed to be used/done together with them, you don't do it with someone else, that is one of the biggest slap-in-the-face things you could ever do to a friend.

[Wesley84]

^ If Alto actually cared about something or someone, he'd be Shinn Asuka.

[stray]

Originally Posted by Kinku

actually im watching macross 7 now and i dont find it that diffcult to watch at all... i like all the singing.. on ep 10 so far...

M7 is awesome after about episode 12 or 13. I honestly was close to quitting up until then; but once it picked up I was hooked. The absurdity of it all helps. All you M7 haters... sheesh.

Originally Posted by KaleRylan

I have one thing to say about this episode, aside from the very interesting ending.

And that is, I am absolutely stunned by how much of jackass Alto was to Sheryl in this episode.

I mean

Spoiler for Macross Frontier Episode 12:

what the hell was up with Mikhael's(sp?) 'you need to think of Ranka's feelings after coming all this way' crap? What about the woman who offered you the one present you were willing to abandon everyone else in order to get it, who then collapsed from exhaustion and was held hostage with threats made on her life. Ranka hasn't gone through anything in this episode,even the all this way was nothing since they used the newer, fancier fold engine, under normal circumstances you pay attention to the sick first and foremost. Hell, I mean Sheryl so wanted to give him a sky that she tried to climb out of her sickbed to do it. And then what does Alto do, he decides to take his joyride in the skies with the OTHER GIRL. Now I'll admit that as good a character as I think Ranka is, the fact that she looks so young creeps me out for a love interest so I'm a Sheryl fan. However, even if you reversed the roles I would still be infuriated by how much of an indecisive ass they made Alto into with this one move. I mean, if someone offers you a present that is obviously designed to be used/done together with them, you don't do it with someone else, that is one of the biggest slap-in-the-face things you could ever do to a friend.

I watched Lunar's release of 12 today, and I really like their interpretation of what Michael said...
"Think carefully about how Ranka-chan must feel to come out here despite the risk"

Not sure how correct the translation was, but I think Lunar is usually best when it comes to context. Except for some strange liberties with slang they seem to take...

Anyway, my point being... ya, it was a crappy move, but he's kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place.

[Wesley84]

You know, not only did Ranka risk her life to resolve the crisis, she did so knowing she might do irrepairable damage to her career by possibly missing her debut concert. Something she's spent probably months now working at it. If not for the lucky break with the movie, she'd still be trying to sell carrots.

Putting it into that context would have made more sense than making an appeal to Alto to be sensitive to Ranka's feelings. The fact that she selflessly risked everything should be obvious even to a dunce like Alto. If Ranka wants Alto to fly her home, he'd better get flapping.

[CrowKenobi]

Originally Posted by Wesley84

Putting it into that context would have made more sense than making an appeal to Alto to be sensitive to Ranka's feelings. The fact that she selflessly risked everything should be obvious even to a dunce like Alto. If Ranka wants Alto to fly her home, he'd better get flapping.

I don't think Ranka wants anything! Michael, being Alto's superior, basically ordered him to do it without it sounding like an order... (or guilt tripped him into it, take your pick)

Though it would've been nice to see Alto say good-bye to Sheryl...

[KaleRylan]

You know, not only did Ranka risk her life to resolve the crisis, she did so knowing she might do irrepairable damage to her career by possibly missing her debut concert. Something she's spent probably months now working at it. If not for the lucky break with the movie, she'd still be trying to sell carrots.

Putting it into that context would have made more sense than making an appeal to Alto to be sensitive to Ranka's feelings. The fact that she selflessly risked everything should be obvious even to a dunce like Alto. If Ranka wants Alto to fly her home, he'd better get flapping.

I don't really feel like arguing, but IMO hostage situation > possible career damage. In fact hostage situation > pretty much anything else, and that's not including the collapsing from exhaustion and the simple fact that the sky was Sheryl's idea and meant to be a present from her to Alto. It's just rude, it's not like it was a surprise so he made an honest mistake. Alto knew exactly what Sheryl wanted to do, she told him repeatedly.

Plus, on a more calculating level, being able to attach her name to legends like Minmei and Basara who used music to end conflict is not likely to be all that damaging to Ranka's career in the world of Macross, although it's possible.

[Swampstorm]

Actually, when you look at it, Ranka just had her debut concert. She did come in expecting to perform, after all.

It's a matter of perspective. As a friend who's been giving Ranka an ongoing push to go after Alto, Michael sees Ranka's perspective, but he probably doesn't see Sheryl's yet. Had he seen a semiconcious Sheryl struggling to get out of bed just to give Alto his chance at fulfilling his dream, then perhaps he would have been more inclined to let Alto decide on his own.

An idol's number one priority is her health. If Sheryl doesn't go out and perform, then she jeopardizes her career, which is something that she's spent her entire life working on. It's one hell of a sacrifice, and it's certainly not one that I would have ever expected from any character in this series.

Alto's not a dunce enough not to recognize that, which is why he resists. In all fairness, though, after what she did, I'd say that if Sheryl wanted Alto to give her a tour of that endless sky, then the only decision that Alto ought to make is about how to fit her sick bed into his VF.

[kilroy0097]

Alto is a misguided and lost angsty teenager that makes decisions not based upon what other people feel but what he wants in that moment. All impulse decisions. And he's rather oblivious of what's going on around him in the emotional sense. I suppose he's your typical teenage male anime character who are almost always morons in most regards. So it's not that he's an asshole on purpose, he's an asshole by nature. So are most of these types of anime male characters.

This type of stereotyping with male characters is so bad and so over used that almost any main male character that is shown to be in touch with his female friend's emotions is considered a weakling or homosexual or very shounen ai. I for one don't like the stereotype as it's overused constantly.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by KaleRylan

I don't really feel like arguing, but IMO hostage situation > possible career damage. In fact hostage situation > pretty much anything else, and that's not including the collapsing from exhaustion and the simple fact that the sky was Sheryl's idea and meant to be a present from her to Alto. It's just rude, it's not like it was a surprise so he made an honest mistake. Alto knew exactly what Sheryl wanted to do, she told him repeatedly.

Sheryl didn't plan for the hostage situation. Ranka knowingly and willingly jumped into it. Sher performed literaly under fire.

And Alto wasn't precisely taking a joyride. He was taking Ranka home, because she had an important concert the day after. Sheryl, we can assume, would be fine after a few days of rest, but she wasn't in any state to go flying anyway.

Sure, he could have told Michel to bring Ranka back, but that would have been ungrateful to the one who just saved all their lives. Sheryl'll understand. She'd probably kick his ass if he used her illness as an excuse to snub Ranka. She'll also understand the time constraints - she's a pro, after all.

[Westlo]

Alto was an ass leaving Sheryl, with Ranka in episode 11 you can kinda see that he may have called and couldn't get through so he sent Michael. 12 he has no excuse since Sheryl was right their. Hopefully Sheryl Misa slaps him.

Originally Posted by Swampstorm

It's a matter of perspective. As a friend who's been giving Ranka an ongoing push to go after Alto, Michael sees Ranka's perspective, but he probably doesn't see Sheryl's yet. Had he seen a semiconcious Sheryl struggling to get out of bed just to give Alto his chance at fulfilling his dream, then perhaps he would have been more inclined to let Alto decide on his own.

Yeah I really can't blame Michael for nudging/pushing Alto into the Ranka direction. He has known and been friends with Ranka for longer, Ranka is his superior's sister and he knows Ranka likes Alto. While his "Why do you think she's here" and "Idiot" comments in episode 8 shows he knows Sheryl is also interested in Alto, he probably thinks Sheryl isn't completely serious (in his position would you?). Maybe next episode Sheryl will do a few things that convinces him otherwise... it should be interesting to see her reaction to Alto leaving with Ranka as well as later on when she's told they are missing.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Westlo

Alto was an ass leaving Sheryl, with Ranka in episode 11 you can kinda see that he may have called and couldn't get through so he sent Michael. 12 he has no excuse since Sheryl was right their. Hopefully Sheryl Misa slaps him.

I like to think they said their good byes off-screen. If he just left... Yeah, he's an ass, and so is Ranka.

[JackRydden224]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

I like to think they said their good byes off-screen. If he just left... Yeah, he's an ass, and so is Ranka.

He was right next to Sheryl when he left, why does he need to say good bye? And he left Sheryl in Grace's care, who he obviously thought was trust worthy, so if anything, blame Grace

Sheryl will definitely feel guilty about what happened to Alto since she was the one who talked him into it. And just like Westlo(was it?) said, Michele will get a good look of the relationship from Sheryl's view in the next episode.

[kilroy0097]

Why are you guys viewing Sheryl and Alto as a couple who is in love with each other and would rather not live if the other one does not? I don't understand this mentality. If anything they are "interested" in each other, Sheryl more for Alto than vice versa. So if a girl you just met a few weeks ago and you decided you liked her was sick in bed you would drop your entire life and responsibilities to stay by her bed? Lets look at the larger picture once in a while.

[Westlo]

Who's acting like they are a couple? If he can't even say goodbye to someone who he escorted and is friends with than he's an ass period. The same person who desperately wanted to give him his present, the scene which moved him enough he tried to sneak out and grab his vf-25 so he could do something. Likewise he's an ass if he didn't even try to call Ranka in 11 and just sent Michael, but not enough evidence there... and I doubt we will ever know if he tried to call her. Michael/Sheryl scenes (whys Michael always gotta do Alto's dirty work ) next week otoh will let us know if Alto said goodbye or not.

Spoiler for 13 pic from website:

This for instance could be the scene where he tells her that Alto's gone to take Ranka back to Frontier, I would expect a bigger reaction if it was the "They have gone missing scene" but who knows.

[ani_d]

what the hell was up with Mikhael's(sp?) 'you need to think of Ranka's feelings after coming all this way' crap? What about the woman who offered you the one present you were willing to abandon everyone else in order to get it, who then collapsed from exhaustion and was held hostage with threats made on her life.

Alto has a messenger. Just like how he used Mikhail to relay his message to Ranka last episode, the same thing is going to happen to Sheryl. It just sucks that the episode didn't really dwell on it unlike with Ranka's. Like Anh Minh, I'd like to think Alto personally said goodbye off-screen. If you look at the last scene of Sheryl, she didn't look upset or anything. Maybe she knew it was coming. She only was shown to be upset when Grace rubbed it in her how amazing Ranka was.

I still say everything is orchestrated up to the part where Ranka goes to Galia 4 to awake that evil eye.

Why are you guys viewing Sheryl and Alto as a couple who is in love with each other and would rather not live if the other one does not? I don't understand this mentality.

It's because people like to exaggerate sometimes.

Maybe next episode Sheryl will do a few things that convinces him otherwise...

Ranka fan # 2 betraying Ranka herself? Nonsense lol

[Westlo]

What does Michael seeing that Sheryl is actually serious got anything to do with betraying Ranka? You've read the spoilers, you know the general outline for what happens, you know what her condition is in 15, add them together and if he can't see that she's serious he's as clueless as he thinks Alto is.

[ani_d]

Originally Posted by Westlo

What does Michael seeing that Sheryl is actually serious got anything to do with betraying Ranka? You've read the spoilers, you know the general outline for what happens, you know what her condition is in 15, add them together and if he can't see that she's serious he's as clueless as he thinks Alto is.

Still won't mean he'll support her over Ranka. The most I can see him doing for Sheryl is giving her credit if ever he gets impressed by her feelings for Alto. If ever.

[Anh_Minh]

Well, I haven't read the spoilers. I'm sure I'm not the only one.