AnimeSuki Forums

Sheba · 2011-12-17, 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

That would imply anyone is ever capable of forgetting Madoka or not bringing it up.

Oh don't worry, someone will always be here to rub it on this board's face.

00-Raiser · 2011-12-17, 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by LostSome

Where is Steed now ?

He's back with Thoma.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheba

Oh don't worry, someone will always be here to rub it on this board's face.

Eh, give it a few years and people will realise that it's just Bokurano with magic girls instead of robots.

Justin_Brett · 2011-12-17, 20:52

Or Mai Hime without any romance subplots.

Which, don't get me wrong, does have a certain appeal.

00-Raiser · 2011-12-17, 23:22

Madoka doesn't really have much in common with My HiME. Bokurano is definitely more similar ("make a contract with me and become a magic girl/pilot a giant robot!") but I doubt that many people are familiar with Bokurano.

Either way, there's nothing original about Madoka and the fans will soon realise this when the initial awe wears off.

Of course just because it's a cluster of reused ideas doesn't automatically mean it's not good. I see professional reviewers critisize shows stating "tropes are present" as a negative point but that's completely stupid. If that was a legitimate criticism then everything in existance is crap because all ideas are reused. Hell, even Shakespear based his plays on pre-existing stories. The real problem comes in when tropes are used improperly.

Certainly Force and Nanoha as a whole doesn't really do anything original but everything still meshes and it holds itself together from a functional stand point.

Justin_Brett · 2011-12-17, 23:49

It sort of is. "Hey, make a contract with me to fight monsters and save the world! Oh, by the way, there was this one thing I forgot to mention/you didn't ask me about..." There's also a lot of characters in it that are similar to ones in Madoka.

Definitely has more in line with Bokurano, though.

00-Raiser · 2011-12-17, 23:53

The HiMEs never made a contract, their powers were forced onto them.

itanshi1 · 2011-12-18, 01:07

Originality is dead, long live originality, i say

Justin_Brett · 2011-12-18, 01:36

Yeah, but they could choose what they wanted to use them for - or at least that's what Nagi made them think.

00-Raiser · 2011-12-18, 02:01

HiME also lacked the early tonal shift. HiME had one, but that happened mid series. Didn't have a major character death until further in (Madoka's like Nadesico in that way). HiME also lacked a lead who was a total flake until the last episode. Not even Madoka's magic reset button ending was as complete as HiME's.

I like Otome better anyways.

At the mention of tonal shifts, while Force deals with more serious crimes, the tone is still pretty consistant with the rest of the franchise. It has its completely serious moments like the other seasons but it never goes 100% grimdark as seen by the current, and past, chapters' ample dosage of light hearted bits.

Justin_Brett · 2011-12-18, 02:24

I'd argue Akane going comatose was probably even worse than a death. And yeah, HiME had some wretched filler episodes, but that's what you do when you have twenty-six episodes. I doubt Madoka could have kept the plot going full-steam if it had that many: twelve was probably intentionally.

And I'm sorry, I like Nadesico, but Gai's death is far less important than Mami's. There was no point beyond killing off a likable character there.

I'd also disagree with that assessment heavily, primarily because most of the light-hearted scenes are about two characters I have very little reason to care about...and Isis, who happens to be present. Most of the jokes are just WAAAAAAH ANIME FACE DESU~, too, in the same story where a man's head got exploded.

00-Raiser · 2011-12-18, 02:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

And I'm sorry, I like Nadesico, but Gai's death is far less important than Mami's. There was no point beyond killing off a likable character there.

I actually don't like Nadesico all that much (love the movie, though yes I'm serious), but Gai's death had the same effect as Mami's: "Look at this light hearted show, isn't it... HOLY SHIT THEY KILLED SOME ONE WHO LOOKED LIKE A MAJOR CHARACTER IN THE 3RD EPISODE! SHIT JUST GOT SERIOUS!" It also greatly impacted Akito, so I don't see how it was less important than Mami's.

So far as deceptively light hearted turned super serious shows go, Higurashi is still the champ.

There have been plenty of light hearted scenes not involving Thoma and Lily. Some even involve the Huckebien. Nanoha and Vita got a scene, Signum even got a scene in the newest chapter, etc. That the serious shift isn't permanent is also a telling factor. Even after the big battle with the Huckebien we cut back to training antics with no character adapting any kind of cynical or super serious outlook on life.

Also remember we used to have the moe lives of grade schoolers right after a dose of child abuse.

itanshi1 · 2011-12-18, 03:45

much love for nadesico from me, the half way point fluff turned serious was even better

all these series certainly share littl ein common :/ its just balancing fun and angst

Akiyoshi · 2011-12-18, 07:17

Except the balance between fun and angst in Force isn't as good as the other examples xDU. I agree with Justin that the funny faces and jokes are pretty carelessly distributed. I can't properly enjoy the joke because i barely have time or a proper segway to recover from a shocking scene so the joke only ends up as weird instead of funny. But i guess some people must find those fun xDU.

Keroko · 2011-12-18, 07:33

I do. It gives the Hucks that "No, we don't give a damn about what you think" kind of attitude.

If people hate you anyway, might as well troll them.

00-Raiser · 2011-12-18, 13:02

I agree with Keroko.

I must say that Nadesico had crap balance with the serious and comedic stuff, though. It will switch between the two at a moment's notice and it's down right disgusting at times. A wacky funeral montage? Seriously? What the fuck Nadesico, what the fuck?

Force is much better because it has the two blocked off. We have a block of light hearted and relatively light hearted stuff, then a block of really serious stuff, then another block of light hearted stuff. Prevents serious mood whiplash that way.

Akiyoshi · 2011-12-18, 13:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

Force is much better because it has the two blocked off. We have a block of light hearted and relatively light hearted stuff, then a block of really serious stuff, then another block of light hearted stuff. Prevents serious mood whiplash that way.

Arnage: Cy-nee, you took the bike with you right? how are you gonna take all of them back with you?

Cypha: (chibified) ... you're right, leave it.

Arnage: (silly face) This is what simple minded people like Vey-nii are like xD.

I wasn't precisely luaghing of joy at that moment XP.

00-Raiser · 2011-12-18, 13:13

That's entirely based on personal preference, though.

Still, that happened after the serious part rather than during plus that's on the antagonist side where said serious event wouldn't really affect them.

Compare to Nadesico where it has scenes like "You mean all these people died? ..... I'M GONNA GO SEE AKITO!"

... Some people were saying they weren't confident in Hayate's leadership skills, well, at least she's not as horrible as Yurika was.

Akiyoshi · 2011-12-18, 13:15

Point Taken. Still, just because Force's humor is not "as terrible" as Nadessico that doesn't make it automatically good.

LostSome · 2011-12-18, 13:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by 00-Raiser

He's back with Thoma.

I was asking why he isn`t with Thoma last chapter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

Arnage: Cy-nee, you took the bike with you right? how are you gonna take all of them back with you?

Cypha: (chibified) ... you're right, leave it.

Arnage: (silly face) This is what simple minded people like Vey-nii are like xD.

I wasn't precisely luaghing of joy at that moment XP.

It was an a lighter note, but I don`t see how it was out of place.
It was actually good because we got to know Arnage and that she was dependable.
Before that we only knew her as an annoying bottomless pit.

Akiyoshi · 2011-12-18, 13:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by LostSome

It was an a lighter note, but I don`t see how it was out of place.
It was actually good because we got to know Arnage and that she was dependable.
Before that we only knew her as an annoying bottomless pit.

To be fair to Arnage, those were her very first lines on the season so in her case it helped to stablish her character but that "goofy" moment didn't helped me to make a better opinion about Cypha nor forgetting what was just happened, at all.

Reminds me of Bambi where we saw silly music and birds right after the death of his mother! ....the hell?

2011-12-17, 23:22	Link #4964
00-Raiser Burst Mode Author Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Windsor, Ontario Age: 37	Madoka doesn't really have much in common with My HiME. Bokurano is definitely more similar ("make a contract with me and become a magic girl/pilot a giant robot!") but I doubt that many people are familiar with Bokurano. Either way, there's nothing original about Madoka and the fans will soon realise this when the initial awe wears off. Of course just because it's a cluster of reused ideas doesn't automatically mean it's not good. I see professional reviewers critisize shows stating "tropes are present" as a negative point but that's completely stupid. If that was a legitimate criticism then everything in existance is crap because all ideas are reused. Hell, even Shakespear based his plays on pre-existing stories. The real problem comes in when tropes are used improperly. Certainly Force and Nanoha as a whole doesn't really do anything original but everything still meshes and it holds itself together from a functional stand point. __________________

2011-12-17, 23:53	Link #4966
00-Raiser Burst Mode Author Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Windsor, Ontario Age: 37	The HiMEs never made a contract, their powers were forced onto them. __________________

2011-12-18, 01:07	Link #4967
itanshi1 Writer, Jester, MtG nerd Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Nanoha Used Car Dealership. RERISE!	Originality is dead, long live originality, i say __________________ For those that belittle their favorite characters, complain about pairings, complain about oversexed images. Stop, thank you. Fear Anxiety Doubt is but a fad. The life of a fad depends entirely on the willingness to support it. Difficulty is a choice. Determination is a path. Your next great idea after your destination is the true goal.

2011-12-18, 02:01	Link #4969
00-Raiser Burst Mode Author Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Windsor, Ontario Age: 37	HiME also lacked the early tonal shift. HiME had one, but that happened mid series. Didn't have a major character death until further in (Madoka's like Nadesico in that way). HiME also lacked a lead who was a total flake until the last episode. Not even Madoka's magic reset button ending was as complete as HiME's. I like Otome better anyways. At the mention of tonal shifts, while Force deals with more serious crimes, the tone is still pretty consistant with the rest of the franchise. It has its completely serious moments like the other seasons but it never goes 100% grimdark as seen by the current, and past, chapters' ample dosage of light hearted bits. __________________

2011-12-18, 03:45	Link #4972
itanshi1 Writer, Jester, MtG nerd Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Nanoha Used Car Dealership. RERISE!	much love for nadesico from me, the half way point fluff turned serious was even better all these series certainly share littl ein common :/ its just balancing fun and angst __________________ For those that belittle their favorite characters, complain about pairings, complain about oversexed images. Stop, thank you. Fear Anxiety Doubt is but a fad. The life of a fad depends entirely on the willingness to support it. Difficulty is a choice. Determination is a path. Your next great idea after your destination is the true goal.

2011-12-17, 20:52	Link #4963
Justin_Brett Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie	Or Mai Hime without any romance subplots. Which, don't get me wrong, does have a certain appeal.

2011-12-17, 23:49	Link #4965
Justin_Brett Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie	It sort of is. "Hey, make a contract with me to fight monsters and save the world! Oh, by the way, there was this one thing I forgot to mention/you didn't ask me about..." There's also a lot of characters in it that are similar to ones in Madoka. Definitely has more in line with Bokurano, though.

2011-12-18, 01:36	Link #4968
Justin_Brett Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie	Yeah, but they could choose what they wanted to use them for - or at least that's what Nagi made them think.

2011-12-18, 02:24	Link #4970
Justin_Brett Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie	I'd argue Akane going comatose was probably even worse than a death. And yeah, HiME had some wretched filler episodes, but that's what you do when you have twenty-six episodes. I doubt Madoka could have kept the plot going full-steam if it had that many: twelve was probably intentionally. And I'm sorry, I like Nadesico, but Gai's death is far less important than Mami's. There was no point beyond killing off a likable character there. I'd also disagree with that assessment heavily, primarily because most of the light-hearted scenes are about two characters I have very little reason to care about...and Isis, who happens to be present. Most of the jokes are just WAAAAAAH ANIME FACE DESU~, too, in the same story where a man's head got exploded.

2011-12-18, 07:17	Link #4973
Akiyoshi The Flame Crussader Join Date: Aug 2009	Except the balance between fun and angst in Force isn't as good as the other examples xDU. I agree with Justin that the funny faces and jokes are pretty carelessly distributed. I can't properly enjoy the joke because i barely have time or a proper segway to recover from a shocking scene so the joke only ends up as weird instead of funny. But i guess some people must find those fun xDU. __________________ May 29 2010-2019 ...9 years ago, the day after never would be the same ~The ASFB~

2011-12-18, 07:33	Link #4974
Keroko Adeptus Animus Author Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 36	I do. It gives the Hucks that "No, we don't give a damn about what you think" kind of attitude. If people hate you anyway, might as well troll them.

2011-12-18, 13:02	Link #4975
00-Raiser Burst Mode Author Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Windsor, Ontario Age: 37	I agree with Keroko. I must say that Nadesico had crap balance with the serious and comedic stuff, though. It will switch between the two at a moment's notice and it's down right disgusting at times. A wacky funeral montage? Seriously? What the fuck Nadesico, what the fuck? Force is much better because it has the two blocked off. We have a block of light hearted and relatively light hearted stuff, then a block of really serious stuff, then another block of light hearted stuff. Prevents serious mood whiplash that way. __________________

2011-12-18, 13:13	Link #4977
00-Raiser Burst Mode Author Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Windsor, Ontario Age: 37	That's entirely based on personal preference, though. Still, that happened after the serious part rather than during plus that's on the antagonist side where said serious event wouldn't really affect them. Compare to Nadesico where it has scenes like "You mean all these people died? ..... I'M GONNA GO SEE AKITO!" ... Some people were saying they weren't confident in Hayate's leadership skills, well, at least she's not as horrible as Yurika was. __________________

2011-12-18, 13:15	Link #4978
Akiyoshi The Flame Crussader Join Date: Aug 2009	Point Taken. Still, just because Force's humor is not "as terrible" as Nadessico that doesn't make it automatically good. __________________ May 29 2010-2019 ...9 years ago, the day after never would be the same ~The ASFB~