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View Poll Results: No Game No Life - Episode 12 (END) Rating
Perfect 10 65 53.72%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 38 31.40%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 15 12.40%
7 out of 10 : Good 1 0.83%
6 out of 10 : Average 0 0%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 2 1.65%
Voters: 121. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2014-06-26, 04:50   Link #81
~Yami~
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
You can't end the show with a cliffhanger like that. That's just cruel.
that cliffhanger is indeed cruel

after challenging a top rank,.... then we have to wait for several months

I'm enjoying NGNL... truly top of the year so far... thanks a lot
every casts are awesome... including Steph

I wonder if Jibril really told the secret of Warbeast game to Alvangarde already
or maybe Alvangarde already part of Elkia Federation?
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Old 2014-06-26, 05:13   Link #82
kagato3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frodonk View Post
ahh now I get it, all the leaves is how steph had enough energy left to fire a shot while on the back of a NPC.
Slow drain after Steph was recharged bounced shot at the end of the last ep.
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Old 2014-06-26, 05:27   Link #83
c933103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Yami~ View Post
that cliffhanger is indeed cruel

after challenging a top rank,.... then we have to wait for several months

I'm enjoying NGNL... truly top of the year so far... thanks a lot
every casts are awesome... including Steph

I wonder if Jibril really told the secret of Warbeast game to Alvangarde already
or maybe Alvangarde already part of Elkia Federation?
Avant Heim isn't expansionism.
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Old 2014-06-26, 05:56   Link #84
Somnus
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Fantastic finale to a fantastic season.

Admittedly, I too thought the purpose of the chess-shaped race pieces was to collect them by winning them through games with as high stakes as these. It never occurred to me that you could simply "collect" them by working together with everyone. Such a simple (read as: more favourable) solution. Silly me!

Count me in with those who hope to see a 2nd season of this.
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Old 2014-06-26, 08:02   Link #85
zero7090
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i hate people who put cliffhanger in the final ep. This is like the code geass but luckily i didnt go shouting wtf in the middle of the night
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Old 2014-06-26, 08:40   Link #86
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because she is miko, shrine priestess, so she has god she served right?
.
that's what shiro-sora mean right?
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Old 2014-06-26, 08:43   Link #87
Death Usagi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Von Himmel View Post
Old Deus seems like Nu or Lambda from Blazblue w
Maybe I was blind but how?
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Old 2014-06-26, 08:44   Link #88
Von Himmel
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Sorry, should've put 'sounds' like instead of 'seems'. Her speech pattern reminds me of her because I've just recently watched blazblue matches
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Old 2014-06-26, 08:44   Link #89
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And we're done. That last episode was enjoyable, though 6 & 10 will remain as the best of this cour.

We got the usual over-the-top keikaku-doori, character quirks and humorous fanservice admirably delivered.

It's a bit questionnable to introduce a character like Miko in the last episode, but it worked well. To novel readers, is she going to be relevant in the next arc?

On the downside, it could have been a bit more conclusive as well, since there's no certitude about a season 2.

Overall, an enjoyable closure to a fantastic comedy. Now, let's hope for Madhouse to see the light and give us MOAR
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Old 2014-06-26, 09:27   Link #90
Klashikari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Maw View Post
Ah, now that you mention it, I remember that. Still... it feels a litte too convenient, given the setup. The Warbeasts have never lost a game, and even go as far wiping the opposing players memories of the game. They were highly confident (not to moment arrogant) in their chances in wining for good reason, so it find it hard to believe they would have anticipated losing when there is no precedence. Did Sora really unnerve Ino so much that he entertained that idea even after all precautions when the conference ended?
It is exactly because the situation was risky that Miko probably took such measure just in case.

Remember those points:
-Sora and Shiro are known to be the King and Queen of Imanity, having defeated Kurami who is known to be affiliated with Elven Garde, which means they defeated someone who had access to elf magic.
-Ino learned from the get go that Sora has heard about their game due to Steph's grandfather. Therefore the game concept and rules were already known, which is extremely dangerous for them, regardless if their opponent is Imanity or another race (hence why they force a memory wipe for every game).
-Miko is said to be the one behind the rise of the Eastern Federation within merely 50 years, despite the warbeasts clans weren't united at all prior that point (which also explain why Sora and Shiro doubted about her identity in the anime). So it is actually logical and refreshing for a character like that to have preparations done in case they lose. Far too often we have almighty characters blind by their powers and advantages to the point they don't consider the worst possible scenario for them, despite they don't commit anything important for a failsafe measure.


Anyway, this episode is actually a nice closure for a one cour series, and while it has a decent (albeit very mean) teaser, I wouldn't be surprised if they aren't going for a second season either.

That said, it is really the one time I believe Sora and Shiro "calculations" were beyond far fetched. Again it is possible, but very very unlikely here.
The NPC carrying Steph is a complete unknown factor. Sure, it is a NPC, but there was no guarantee the NPC would make it on time (for instance, what if Steph is clumsy enough to "ride" on it and took something like 10 more seconds? What if Izuna's trashing actions would hinder the NPC path at some point?). Likewise, Steph had to shoot with her eyes shut, forced to shoot "right in front of her", but that's actually another gamble because they don't know beforehand where Steph will be facing, since she can either shoot from the left or right of the NPC head.

I certainly think they shouldn't have gone with their own spice and adapt that portion properly instead. If Kukuru's post is accurate on that matter, I would have largely less issue if Shiro and Sora were indeed taken out immediately after Izuna activated Blood Destruction, then Izuna got shot by Steph on the very location they landed (at least, the margin of error is significantly lower than calculating where a NPC would be).
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Old 2014-06-26, 10:58   Link #91
Jan-Poo
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This was a very enjoyable show, Like some other people have said already in this thread, it isn't perfect and there's quite a few things that I could say, but overall I think it's a solid series with pretty interesting characters and exciting storytelling. I'm looking forward for a second season

Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
Anyone else think when Sora and Shiro said "One more thing" that they were going to chase Miko and try to rub her tails?
No, but I thought they would ask for Izuna's panties there.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
That said, it is really the one time I believe Sora and Shiro "calculations" were beyond far fetched. Again it is possible, but very very unlikely here.
The NPC carrying Steph is a complete unknown factor. Sure, it is a NPC, but there was no guarantee the NPC would make it on time (for instance, what if Steph is clumsy enough to "ride" on it and took something like 10 more seconds? What if Izuna's trashing actions would hinder the NPC path at some point?). Likewise, Steph had to shoot with her eyes shut, forced to shoot "right in front of her", but that's actually another gamble because they don't know beforehand where Steph will be facing, since she can either shoot from the left or right of the NPC head.

I personally don't think that the matter of whether Shiro's calculations are realistically plausible or not are (not just humanly) possible should be even discussed. It's simply not plausible because (by the principles of the chaos theory) that level of prediction would require her to possess a level of knowledge on par to that of a Laplace demon.

But as I said on the previous thread I accept that:
a) Shiro's calculating abilities or on par or even beyond that of a supercomputer
b) This is a universe where said calculating abilities can be used to predict with precision even human (or rather exceed) behavior.

This is the same as accepting that "lifters create antigravity", "microwaves are not much different from particle accelerators", "a sex of a baby can be determined by what a woman eats while pregnant" that everyone accepted without much problems while watching Steins;Gate, or "the memories of our ancestors are stored in minute details in our genes" from the "Assassin's creed" franchise.


Now reconstructing the whole strategy involving Steph as described in the anime, as far as I understood it went like this:

1) NPCs actively follow PCs when they sense them and try to touch them. When contact happens PCs are slowly drained of their "love power". After the "love power" of a PC reaches zero, the NPCs do not consider him a target anymore and resume their original movement routine on the map. (this was not said, but I guess that NPCs have a set "visual field" and that they can only sense PCs if they enter it)

2) Steph was drained of her love power and jumped on a specific NPC (supposedly in that precise order, so to reduce chances of messing up the NPC's behavior). That means that in said condition she couldn't fire and even if she entered in contact with other NPCs they would ignore her. Supposedly the NPC that she is on cannot sense her anyway because Steph is outside her visual field.

3) Steph was asked to keep her eyes closed all the time from that point onward, likely to prevent Ino from keeping track of her, and even to fall in a sort of "unconscious" state until the right time.

4) During the fall from the skyscraper Sora Shiro (corrected by klash) shoots in a way that his bullet will bounce off Jibril's bullet and then go all the way down and hit Steph who was carried "unconscious" on the roaming NPC whose position could only be known through the precise calculations of Shiro. (No comment )

5) Steph love power is restored, however since she is touching a NPC, the power immediately starts to drain (this works like a timer for Steph). Also according to what Ino said near the end of episode 11, a PC that has just been shot cannot shoot for a few seconds until it recovers from the "lovestruck effect". Why Steph's behavior isn't overridden by the lovestruck effect or why it doesn't affect her here isn't clear. They never clearly explained how that works.

6) Eventually the NPC carries Steph where Shiro and Sora predicted that Izuna would stand, and at the very exact time that Steph's love power is about reach zero.

7) The order given to Steph was to fire straight ahead exactly when her power was going to run out. Now this wasn't quite shown in the anime, but logically speaking all that was necessary was for the NPC carrying Steph to see Izuna, the correct alignment would therefore occur automatically.


So well if you want my opinion, assuming that the NPC's behavior isn't really complex (and in most videogames I played it really isn't), the hardest point to believe is number 4, and number 5 looks like an oversight to me, but of course there's a lot of factors that could have gone wrong.

EDIT: corrected point 4
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Last edited by Jan-Poo; 2014-06-26 at 11:18.
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Old 2014-06-26, 11:13   Link #92
Klashikari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
4) During the fall from the skyscraper Sora shoots in a way that his bullet will bounce off Jibril's bullet and then go all the way down and hit Steph who was carried "unconscious" on the roaming NPC whose position could only be known by Sora through the precise calculations of Shiro. (No comment )
No, that bullet was fired by Shiro. In fact, Sora only shot Shiro's panties during the fall, nothing else.
Quote:
5) Steph love power is restored, however since she is touching a NPC, the power immediately starts to drain (this works like a timer for Steph). Also according to what Ino said near the end of episode 11, a PC that has just been shot cannot shoot for a few seconds until it recovers from the "lovestruck effect". Why Steph's behavior isn't overridden by the lovestruck effect or why it doesn't affect her here isn't clear. They never clearly explained how that works.
That's probably because of the "timer". If the love power draining is that slow, and considering how long it took Shiro and Sora to bait Izuna to that place, it is fairly possible that the lovestruck effect already weared off.
After all, that effect didn't even last 15-20 seconds when Shiro and Jibril tested it.
Quote:
7) The order given to Steph was to fire straight ahead exactly when her power was going to run out. Now this wasn't quite shown in the anime, but logically speaking all that was necessary was for the NPC carrying Steph to see Izuna, the correct alignment would therefore occur automatically.
Even if we take for granted Shiro's calculation abilities, it still a 50/50 chance for Steph to have an appropriate aim, exactly due to how she is carried by the NPC. Regardless how the NPC is facing Izuna, Steph could have shot the other way around.

That said, the most critical and random ridden point was indeed point 4, with that bullet aimed for Steph.
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Old 2014-06-26, 11:23   Link #93
Jan-Poo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
No, that bullet was fired by Shiro. In fact, Sora only shot Shiro's panties during the fall, nothing else.
Ah that's true. So this falls under the premises of this show after all.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
That's probably because of the "timer". If the love power draining is that slow, and considering how long it took Shiro and Sora to bait Izuna to that place, it is fairly possible that the lovestruck effect already weared off.
After all, that effect didn't even last 15-20 seconds when Shiro and Jibril tested it.
My main gripe here is that before PCs that were hit by bullets were said to "lose all functions" and were shown to act irrationally. I don't think that Steph should have kept holding onto that NPC while under that effect.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Even if we take for granted Shiro's calculation abilities, it still a 50/50 chance for Steph to have an appropriate aim, exactly due to how she is carried by the NPC. Regardless how the NPC is facing Izuna, Steph could have shot the other way around.
Well now, she was ordered to shoot straight ahead, of course "straight ahead" is a bit vague and she could have missed, but not as far as shooting the other way.
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Old 2014-06-26, 11:25   Link #94
GDB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
My main gripe here is that before PCs that were hit by bullets were said to "lose all functions" and were shown to act irrationally. I don't think that Steph should have kept holding onto that NPC while under that effect.
Each time that was shown, the character was near the person who shot them. They never really showed what happens if they're shot from a distance. Hard to go all lovey dovey on a person if you can't even begin to ponder where they are.

Plus, it's possible that the effects of the Oaths overpowered the need to run around like an idiot.
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Old 2014-06-26, 11:28   Link #95
Klashikari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
My main gripe here is that before PCs that were hit by bullets were said to "lose all functions" and were shown to act irrationally. I don't think that Steph should have kept holding onto that NPC while under that effect.
The only explanation I can offer for that part is that Steph was unconscious due to the effect of the Oath. Since she is unconscious, she can't act erratically because the effect of the bullet itself only change their behaviour.
Afterwards, the Oath effect kicks in and make her wake up to shoot straight in front of her.
Quote:
Well now, she was ordered to shoot straight ahead, of course "straight ahead" is a bit vague and she could have missed, but not as far as shooting the other way.
I probably used the wrong terms here. Still, Steph head is obstructed by the NPC head, due to how the latter carries the latter. That's also why Steph's posture is showing that she has shot on the right side of the NPC.
I guess the only explanation is that because she was right handed, but well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
Each time that was shown, the character was near the person who shot them. They never really showed what happens if they're shot from a distance. Hard to go all lovey dovey on a person if you can't even begin to ponder where they are.
No they did. After the first free fall with Izuna and Jibril, the latter was initially shot by Izuna, and then shot by Sora after Izuna dodged.
As they landed, Jibril was frantically all over Sora, despite he was hundred meters away.
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Old 2014-06-26, 11:29   Link #96
Jan-Poo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
Each time that was shown, the character was near the person who shot them. They never really showed what happens if they're shot from a distance. Hard to go all lovey dovey on a person if you can't even begin to ponder where they are.
Not really. In the previous episode Jibril was shot by Sora from that long range and we saw her screaming "My masteer! please come back to me!" once she reached the floor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
The only explanation I can offer for that part is that Steph was unconscious due to the effect of the Oath. Since she is unconscious, she can't act erratically because the effect of the bullet itself only change their behaviour.
Afterwards, the Oath effect kicks in and make her wake up to shoot straight in front of her..
I thought about that and that's why I wrote that it was never clearly explained how that work. Is it mind control or game control override? I suppose it's the first, but that's quite scary if you think about it. It means that warbeasts' technology reaches that far, and one would wonder why don't they use that technology to cheat.
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Old 2014-06-26, 12:09   Link #97
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I suppose the Oath has an absolute effect that can easily override game rules, since God Hax > game Hax.

How would they cheat further with the technology? Isn't Izuna's love slave basically on a permanent effect until he/she is saved by another?
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Old 2014-06-26, 12:25   Link #98
Iron Maw
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Originally Posted by quigonkenny View Post
She follows the instructions, but consciously forgets what they are. Since the instructions are bound by the Oaths, the Oaths will make her do it, even if she doesn't know (has forgotten) what she's doing, since they're not asking her to do anything that is physically impossible. The reason why she forgets is because they don't want to risk her figuring out what her ultimate job is. If she realizes she has to shoot Izuna, she may leak out some killing intent at that moment (same reason why he had her close her eyes) and be detected. More importantly, if she knows what she is to do and when she is to do it, Ino will sense anxiety from her (since she doesn't have a sociopathic level of emotional control like the sibs), and warn Izuna that something is up.

Honestly, a lot of that was Sora being extra careful, and was probably unnecessary. Steph would likely have been ignored in any case unless she was directly in Izuna's line of sight. Ino clearly did forget about her, or else he would have warned Izuna that she was approaching, even if it was just to tell her to mop up.
Was this the explanation in the novel? If so I wish had made into the anime at in some way. While it's not impossible to infer, with the way Steph's usually shackled with the "dunce cap" it felt like the siblings just doubting her abilities as normal. It makes me feel better about her role.

Quote:
The Monogataris I'd have to disagree on. I saw the first couple, and they were enjoyable, but they've got such a distinct Shinbo feel to them that however good they are, or how faithful they are in plot, character, and dialogue, they can't be considered a "faithful adaptation" on the level of the other mentioned series.
IIRC, from I heard LN readers the dialogue and such is pretty much lifted directly from the source with little to no alternations. Yeah presentation between the anime and text is where things differ, but it's not by a huge margin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
It is exactly because the situation was risky that Miko probably took such measure just in case.

Remember those points:
-Sora and Shiro are known to be the King and Queen of Imanity, having defeated Kurami who is known to be affiliated with Elven Garde, which means they defeated someone who had access to elf magic.
-Ino learned from the get go that Sora has heard about their game due to Steph's grandfather. Therefore the game concept and rules were already known, which is extremely dangerous for them, regardless if their opponent is Imanity or another race (hence why they force a memory wipe for every game).
-Miko is said to be the one behind the rise of the Eastern Federation within merely 50 years, despite the warbeasts clans weren't united at all prior that point (which also explain why Sora and Shiro doubted about her identity in the anime). So it is actually logical and refreshing for a character like that to have preparations done in case they lose. Far too often we have almighty characters blind by their powers and advantages to the point they don't consider the worst possible scenario for them, despite they don't commit anything important for a failsafe measure.
Good points especially the last bit. If we look at as the Miko being suitably in control of situation rather than Ino than things make more sense. Ino sounds like the type to fall into hubris given his overconfidence (which I don't completely blame him for as I said). But this is standard procedure for them then? After all the siblings aren't the first people to have an idea what kinda of game it was since the elves had also figured it out as well as Steph's grandfather. If not, this goes back to my earlier point about action being kinda of contrived.

Last edited by Iron Maw; 2014-06-26 at 12:38.
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Old 2014-06-26, 12:29   Link #99
Shadow5YA
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Originally Posted by eiyuuou View Post
I suppose the Oath has an absolute effect that can easily override game rules, since God Hax > game Hax.

How would they cheat further with the technology? Isn't Izuna's love slave basically on a permanent effect until he/she is saved by another?
Yes, but they did save her. Remember how Shiro and Jibril's shots bounced back? They stated that was to hit Steph. After she was saved, she started following her orders.
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Old 2014-06-26, 12:49   Link #100
kagato3
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Steph wasn't even onIzuna's side at that point any way. They saved her at the park before Shiro faked getting hit.
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