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Old 2008-02-28, 08:01   Link #1421
tripperazn
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Thanks FatPianoBoy, it's just that I've seen some pretty strange uses of it in the visual novel I'm attempting to translate, thought there might be some special rule to it.

After playing a few scenes of Clannad, where I can't use Rikaichan. I have just come to the realization that all my vocab and kanji basically hinges on that applet. I remember the prologue to be an easy read with Rikaichan, but I ended up totally lost by most of the details and descriptions with kanji I know I've seen many times, but can't read.

Anyway, does anyone know of a good Japanese-English dictionary (paper, NOT electronic/web-based) that's not impossible to look up (ie. not a pain in the ass to navigate like most)?
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Last edited by tripperazn; 2008-02-28 at 09:48.
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Old 2008-02-28, 09:41   Link #1422
Mueti
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I just have the standard recommendation: http://www.jisho.org/ , which I assume you know already though. When looking up Kanji on the PC I always use the IME tegaki function and then look it up with jisho or rikaichan.
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Old 2008-02-28, 09:47   Link #1423
tripperazn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mueti View Post
I just have the standard recommendation: http://www.jisho.org/ , which I assume you know already though. When looking up Kanji on the PC I always use the IME tegaki function and then look it up with jisho or rikaichan.
Yeah, I have plenty of electronic sources, including Rikaichan and Denshi Jisho which are all very good and extremely useful....too useful. Now, I just look over stuff with Rikaichan without really processing it, so I don't learn the vocabulary or kanji.

I guess what I'm really looking for is the hassle of looking up kanji and vocabulary up on a paperback dictionary, the old-school way. That way I actually have to focus and internalize the parts of the kanji (?, I don't know how to say it in English). Like in 安, it would be the 3 stroke cap on top of the kanji for woman.
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Old 2008-02-28, 10:28   Link #1424
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tripperazn View Post
Anyway, does anyone know of a good Japanese-English dictionary (paper, NOT electronic/web-based) that's not impossible to look up (ie. not a pain in the ass to navigate like most)?
As far as I know, H. Asano Favorite Japano-English Dictionary (浅野博 フェイバリット和英辞典) is very popular among non-native Nihongo lerners. It not only shows the aptly corresponding word, but also gives some further explanation for foreigners.

I've heard a few person praise Y. Kojima Luminous (小島義 ルミナス和英辞典) because the description is precise and it contains many images and tables. I myself have no experience on it.

I, as a native, use a copy of I. Kondo Progressive (近藤いね子 プログレッシブ和英辞典). It looks rich in academic and technical terms (though I have never compared many dictionaries throughly).
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Old 2008-02-28, 10:32   Link #1425
Mueti
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Are you using the IME tegaki function? That way you at least would have to be fully aware of all the radicals that make the kanji up.

I myself hardly look up kanji at all, except for cases where it's absolutely crucial for the content. But most of the time I just take an educated guess what the word/kanji could mean and go on. I that's the best way to go, I don't know.
(I hardly read on the PC, I find that to be annoying anyway and it's even worse when it's Japanese.)
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Old 2008-02-28, 10:55   Link #1426
tripperazn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiberLibri View Post
As far as I know, H. Asano Favorite Japano-English Dictionary (浅野博 フェイバリット和英辞典) is very popular among non-native Nihongo lerners. It not only shows the aptly corresponding word, but also gives some further explanation for foreigners.
This seems like the best choice, but the only way I can get one is way overpriced from "Sasuga" book store for $50. I'll look into this more, thanks for the help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mueti View Post
Are you using the IME tegaki function? That way you at least would have to be fully aware of all the radicals that make the kanji up.
You mean the IME pad where you use your mouse to attempt to write the kanji? That might work, it definitely is slow and painful enough
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Old 2008-02-28, 11:48   Link #1427
pcube19622
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hi ive just recently started studying japanese, ive now memorized most of the hiragana and katakana...and now just memorizing the vocabs by looking at them is quite painful...so i wonder does anyone have sites that teach u about grammar? i seem to learn vocabs quite faster and easier when its used in a sentence like all the time
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Old 2008-02-28, 12:11   Link #1428
Nagato
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Hope you can find all you need here http://www.nihongoresources.com/
From dictionaries till lessons (grammar, kanji, etc).
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Old 2008-02-28, 13:28   Link #1429
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tripperazn
Greetings.

Quote:
Anyway, does anyone know of a good Japanese-English dictionary (paper, NOT electronic/web-based) that's not impossible to look up (ie. not a pain in the ass to navigate like most)?

I've got this dictionary which I got from the US a while ago
http://nikorai1.narod.ru/m3.html
http://nikorai1.narod.ru/images/imag...p_furigana.jpg

It's free from romaji system that I hate but you have to know the reading first because it's a kana dictionary, not kanji.
Also it's rather small because it's mostly packed with word usage examples.

However it's much faster to navigate through a web-based dictionary. I didn't use the paper one when preparing the translation for our lovely FAFT project.
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Old 2008-02-28, 13:28   Link #1430
raikage
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tripperazn View Post
I've actually been meaning to ask, just what does "stylistic spelling" using katakana mean/denote? I know it's something like emphasis, but that's kinda vague.
That's probably the best explanation you can get. Like writing IN ALL CAPS or in bold -- it emphasizes that particular word or phrase.

EDIT: And though I don't have much experience with paper dictionaries, Kodansha kanji dictionary has been pretty good for me. A little quirky, but I can find it on the first try ~80% of the time.

EDIT2: Don't know how I missed that part of the post the first time, tripperazn, but Kodansha has EXACTLY what you're looking for.

You do search by radicals (the crown on top of a woman in your 安 kan'ji example, or a woman holding a child in 好き). It would be a 3-2 top-bottom split in your example, and a 2-2 left-right split in mine.

Last edited by raikage; 2008-02-29 at 10:51.
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Old 2008-02-28, 15:20   Link #1431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FatPianoBoy View Post
Vague, but that's pretty much it. I've heard it likened to italics in English.
Maybe some background information could help profound understandsing.

Japanese people had no letters till about 5th century. Then they imported kanji from China at that time. Kanji-s are ideograms, as you know, and did not suite perfectly to Japanese. They began to use kanji as phonograms to express Japanese sentences. Kanji-as-phonograms were simplified and transformed into Kana (which literally means, pseudo-letters). In contrast, original kanjis were called Mana (true-letters).

They produced two systems of Kana. One was Kata-kana, which means "a part taken from the original Mana". The another was Hira-kana, "a smoothed letter". Kata-kana was used mainly by highly educated men as the supplemental signs to kanji. Hira-kana's users were women and people in the lower class.

Therefore, Kata-kana was associated with such implications as hard, masculine, stiff, un-natural, etc. Hira-kana was conceived as soft, feminine, vulger, etc.

This tendency remained till 19th century. For example, in the Meiji era, all statutes and treaties were written in kanji & kata-kana, while most polupar literatures were written in kanji & hira-kana.

Today's orthography provides that basically all phonograms should be Hira-kana; some exception like loan-words are in kata-kana. In such situation, authors exploit intentionally katakana to provoke nuances like;

- foreign origin
- strange anachronism (often regarded as "cool")
- parody mind against authority
- softening; sign of "I'm joking"

I think the last one needs more explanation. Writing directly 馬鹿 is too strong; it attacks the addressed person straight, because it is true-letter. Using Kana shows implicitly the writer's intention that "do not take it literally" and "interprete it with special meanings".
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Old 2008-02-29, 05:35   Link #1432
Khaos
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Question

Hi,
can anyone please explain the form できちゃう of the verb できる to me?
What does the ending ちゃう mean? I couldn't find anything about it so far.
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Old 2008-02-29, 06:18   Link #1433
richvh
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できちゃう is a contraction of できてしまう. See Tae Kim's guide for an explanation of てしまう.
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Old 2008-02-29, 11:31   Link #1434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nagato View Post
Hope you can find all you need here http://www.nihongoresources.com/
From dictionaries till lessons (grammar, kanji, etc).
thanks nagato^^ and yuki rulez@@"
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Old 2008-02-29, 22:35   Link #1435
jesse55
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hey i`m trying to learn how to speak japensse any 1 know where to go or any books?
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Old 2008-02-29, 22:49   Link #1436
Vexx
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Um... the last few pages of this thread contain dozens of links and book references? But if you're starting from scratch, "Japanese For Busy People 1" latest edition isn't a bad way to start (it comes with a listening audio CD). If you're more interested in reading manga, "Japanese in Mangaland" (3 volumes) is a pretty decent initial guide. Just google for amazon links.
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Last edited by Vexx; 2008-03-01 at 00:23.
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Old 2008-02-29, 23:38   Link #1437
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hmmm how much do those books cost ?
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Old 2008-03-01, 00:22   Link #1438
Vexx
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.... like I said, amazon and google are your friends <sigh> but doing your research for you ...

Japanese for Busy People volume 1, about $18 at Amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/Japanese-Busy-...4348632&sr=8-1

Japanese in Mangaland 1, about $17
http://www.amazon.com/Japanese-Manga...4348803&sr=1-1

Those are Amazon pricing. Retail is about 20% more.
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Old 2008-03-01, 09:50   Link #1439
RandomGuy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jesse55 View Post
hey i`m trying to learn how to speak japensse any 1 know where to go or any books?
. . .That's an awfully broad question.

As for "where to go," your best bet is to look around for people willing to teach you, and colleges offering courses in the language.

For books, there's plenty of ones available for English speakers, and your mileage will vary by what methods of learning work best for you. I wrote up a list of the books on Japanese that I own on another forum, so I guess I'll just post it over here too:
Spoiler for courtesy's sake (it's a long list):
(Don't think I've religiously gone through each one and absorbed all the nuances - the nice thing about reference books is that you can keep them around and look things up.)

Last edited by RandomGuy; 2008-03-01 at 09:51. Reason: spoiler tag.
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Old 2008-03-02, 07:57   Link #1440
Khaos
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Question

Help, I need some advice in structuring my vocabulary learning.
Main problem are the different readings of the kanji.
E.g.: 六
The readings are ROKU, mut(tsu), mu(tsu), mu-, [mui-]...
But the only thing I want to learn is the reading for 六 if it stands alone, every word that contains 六 should be learned seperately. I think this way of learning would be easier for me than learning every possible reading for the kanji at once.
Most kanji are read kun when they stand alone, so should I only learn this one reading for the kanji alone and then learn the other readings automatically when learning words that contain the kanji? Sorry if this sounds confused, I am really confused about this.
How do you learn the kanji? I also think of using file card system with one card for every kanji.
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