Higurashi Kai Episode 5 Discussion / Poll

[Jimmy C]

Originally Posted by davidj

That being said the timeline for all these events looks to me to about 16 to 20 hours.

That's what I wanted to say, if the disaster occured right after midnight within an hour after Rika was killed, there's virtually no way it would still have been dark by the time Satoko stumbled into the recovery operations.

[Kensuke]

The most heart-wrenching episode I have seen in a long time... Poor, poor Satoko. Looking forward to next episode, and how they are going to continue after this.

I really can't give this any other rating than perfect 10.

[FlareKnight]

Ok I can understand someone taking that step in killing off the villagers. It could make sense in that regard. But one bit I wouldn't understand is why on earth someone with that much in terms of resources wants to take out an entire village. What kind've agenda is that exactly?

Plus I know there aren't many who could create such a force and I have an idea who is being insinuated for this. But again I'm still unable to grasp what the motive for doing such a horrific thing could be. Plus the fact that something that powerful is out for destruction leaves me kind've like Rika in hopelessness that they can stop this.

Anyways agree this was a pretty heart-wrenching episode. The poor girl gave everything to try and survive and in the end was taken out like that. Even worse when she had figured things out to a degree she is gone like that. Just glad they'll be back next week and will try to find hope they can fight this fate.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Davidj

Revelation 1: We now know how many plumbers there are. There are 19.

Huh? What reasoning make you think they are 19 ?

Originally Posted by Jimmy C

That's what I wanted to say, if the disaster occured right after midnight within an hour after Rika was killed, there's virtually no way it would still have been dark by the time Satoko stumbled into the recovery operations.

If we are still implying theorycraft, why would you actually think they started the preparations of the extermination only after Rika died? wouldn't be a time saver to actually regroup everyone before? (around 10-11?) as far as you can see, only roughly 4 men were assignated to Rika's murder.

If we consider that SDF is actually involved in that matter, the fact they are already doing the recovery operations while it is dark is still logic.

This is exactly why the show implies it is extremely weird: their speed, and some weird points (body pilled up, etc)
Still, if we consider they grouped everyone before attacking Rika, that also might explain why Rena was outside, as a third possibility: Rena remembers of what Satoko said, and would feel quite abnormal to not see them during the emergency. after wandering around, either she notice something wrong in the village or, directly when she was searching for the chibiko.

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

Ok I can understand someone taking that step in killing off the villagers. It could make sense in that regard. But one bit I wouldn't understand is why on earth someone with that much in terms of resources wants to take out an entire village. What kind've agenda is that exactly?

Plus I know there aren't many who could create such a force and I have an idea who is being insinuated for this. But again I'm still unable to grasp what the motive for doing such a horrific thing could be. Plus the fact that something that powerful is out for destruction leaves me kind've like Rika in hopelessness that they can stop this.

this is exactly the core mystery: mastermind(s) and especially their motives ^^

[Exilon]

It's the only thing left to figure out the inconsistences and contraditions that the "janitors" did. Let me see:

Spoiler:

Since they are under oders from someone, let's see if I can find out hwat kind of person it is:

1) Wants the failure of the Dam project
2) Wants all residents of Hinamizawa dead. (supposedely)
3) Wants to Watangashi Rika.

It isn't much info... well there's also the fact that it ordered Irie's "suicide". And, since the janitors are extremely well trained on the art of killing.... I'm guessing they're also the ones responsible for Tomitake and Takano's death?....

Oh. Wait a second. *remembers past events of season 1*
*CLICK*
OH MY GOD! You gotta be kidding me!.... I think I figured out who it is. I just can't think of a real reason as to why that person would do it.

I really can't wait for Minagoroshi to see if my guess is correct... But, it would make so much sense. O_o

[theacefrehley]

Originally Posted by kj1980

What is the purpose of the mass death?
Refer to the idea that Rika is the supposed reincarnation of the Oyashiro-sama. What was the theoretical outcome if the villagers found out about Rika's death? What arcs proved that theory to be false? Connect the dots and one can deduce the culprit's intent....

Hmm
About the theoretical outcome I can only think of one (TIP):
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...1&postcount=64

"Furude Rika, the little girl who looks over to protect Hinamizawa. What would happen if Hinamizawa loses her divine protection? What would happen if the tranquility between the humans and the demons were to wither away? Would all hell break loose once again as human-eating demons begin to engulf the village?

Weak and powerless humans cry and scream as the demons feast and remember what it was like to be their former selves.

...I wonder what a spectacle that would be. My heart pounds in excitement just imagining what it would be like."

My memory is not quite good (I think I'm getting senile), but is this that you're referring to?

[NH1976]

Erm.. a TIP here. Wasn't this thread supposed to be spoilerless or i misunderstood something ?

[theacefrehley]

TIP is mising info from the game

it's not really spoiler
and there's a thread about it

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by NH1976

Erm.. a TIP here. Wasn't this thread supposed to be spoilerless or i misunderstood something ?

TIP can be read by anyone lurking around here, and their purpose is not to spoil, but giving additional information.
nothing fortelling or anything.

[Cheezy]

Originally Posted by Davidj

Revelation 2: Far more importantly, we now know why Rika says "nipa".

Makes me wish this wasn't the first Rika/Hanyuu afterword I got to hear in a language other than Finnish.

...we do?

Message too short

[Matrim]

Huh? What reasoning make you think they are 19 ?

Well, it was mentioned that twenty residents of Hinamizawa weren't among the dead bodies, so one can assume that 19 of them were "the cleaners/plumbers/thugs" and the twentieth was Rena. Of course, we can't be sure that the bad guys live in Hinamizawa to begin with, so that's a dodgy assumption, IMO.

That's what I wanted to say, if the disaster occured right after midnight within an hour after Rika was killed, there's virtually no way it would still have been dark by the time Satoko stumbled into the recovery operations.

I disagree, a lightning quick "disaster" and rescue operation still a hell of a lot more likely to me than Satoko being unconsious for about 24 hours. I know that "the government is behind it, duh" is the ultimate cliche in such stories but I do believe the SDF's quick reaction was not by chance at all. Though my hunch is not that the government is the to blame but that they know more than us about the secrets of Hinamizawa and were ready to react ASAP.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Matrim

Well, it was mentioned that twenty residents of Hinamizawa weren't among the dead bodies, so one can assume that 19 of them were "the cleaners/plumbers/thugs" and the twentieth was Rena. Of course, we can't be sure that the bad guys live in Hinamizawa to begin with, so that's a dodgy assumption, IMO.

Oh i see, interesting point, though like you mentioned, it appears to be a dodgy assumption than anything else:
yup, no proof that these guys were registered as inhabitants of hinamizawa. heck, i don't think an operation as big like this could be flawless, preventing some person to flee (Rena is a "living" example for this)

[Davidj]

Originally Posted by Cheezy

...we do?

Message too short

We do. That was the point about saying that in Hinamazawa's local dialect when old people talk about relaxing they use the word "nipper/nipah". Rika is an old person. When she says "nipah" she's telling people to relax, not take things so seriously.

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Oh i see, interesting point, though like you mentioned, it appears to be a dodgy assumption than anything else:
yup, no proof that these guys were registered as inhabitants of hinamizawa. heck, i don't think an operation as big like this could be flawless, preventing some person to flee (Rena is a "living" example for this)

If twenty innocent residents successfully fled then there would be all hell to pay later. The natural disaster story would never have stuck. It wouldn't really be all that difficult to gather all the residents of a small town together in one building if you looked official and had credentials and a cover story. Maybe one or two others managed to make it out, but the fact that 20 people are missing strongly suggested to me that almost all of them are the plumbers.

[Rias]

Originally Posted by Davidj

If twenty innocent residents successfully fled then there would be all hell to pay later. The natural disaster story would never have stuck. It wouldn't really be all that difficult to gather all the residents of a small town together in one building if you looked official and had credentials and a cover story. Maybe one or two others managed to make it out, but the fact that 20 people are missing strongly suggested to me that almost all of them are the plumbers.

Missing people could mean two things. Missing as in they escaped the disaster. Or missing as in the SDF didn't find their corpses.

[Davidj]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Huh? What reasoning make you think they are 19 ?


If we are still implying theorycraft, why would you actually think they started the preparations of the extermination only after Rika died? wouldn't be a time saver to actually regroup everyone before? (around 10-11?) as far as you can see, only roughly 4 men were assignated to Rika's murder.

Yes, but you don't really want to save time. If the population of Hinamaza have their tragic accident due to excessively waxed floors at about the same time that Rika dies, and then the SDF almost immediately shows up for no reason, that would look distinctly hinky.

It would raise the questions:

Why was the entire civilian population of the town minus one gathered together in one building in the middle of the night at the same moment that the one was being killed. And given that they were dieing at that moment...who killed her? Do we need to search for a surviving murderer? And how did the SDF know anything was wrong anyway?

As things stand they have an analysis that seems to wrap things up nicely:

1. There was some kind of serial killer or cult in Hinamazawa inspired by the Oyashiro-sama myth.
2. Rika died at their hands.
3. Someone discovered the body and alerted the town leadership who instead of calling the authorities, gathered everyone together for a town meeting.
4. While everyone was discussing the situation, they all had a tragic accident and died.

But this story is kind of dependant on there being some kind of noticeable time gap between Rika's death and the death of everyone else.


A strained coincidence, but hints that it was some kind of divine wrath reaction to the death of the "incarnation of Oyashiro-sama" will help paper over the unlikelihood of the scenario. Presumable "they" have someone in the SDF force who will keep anyone not in the know from carefully examining the building sprinkler system.

[Baka-neko]

This episode left me craving for more.

Well done by deen, wish the first season was made more like this.
Though I've never liked Satoko much but seeing my Shion lying there dead was tough

[Seiryuu]

I think it really makes sense that this group or whatever destroyed the village. For one thing, while a force strong enough to destroy a village and make it look like an accident would likely be strong enough to disregard most dangers that this village's continuing existence may pose. However, since many factors still point to the possibility that some force is trying to engineer a biological weapon or some other microbe/virus-based device, the destruction becomes completely predictable. If, as I continue to believe, some organization is developing a biological device and chose by expediency or necessity to use the village of Hinamizawa as a living laboratory, then the end of the project would by necessity involve sterilization of test material, which could be accomplished easily in manners that would resemble the aftermath of a volcanic gas eruption.
There's another possibility, though. Since everything seemed to start with the dam, it seems likely that the disease or parasite was unknown until this conflict occured. In a small, remote village where most people know one another, neither conflict nor prolonged travel are terribly likely. Since these seem to be the factors that make the otherwise benign disease become agressive, it probably was first discovered after the project encouraged both. Rather than a weapon, the government may have seen this as a dangerous disease. If other locations are hospitable, the nation could be pockmarked with undetectable hotspots where anyone who stayed long enough would become a psychopath. Rather than harnessing its military potential, the first priority may have been preventing its spread. The first plan would, naturally, have been to devise some cure or vaccine. If the disease only infects humans, it would be necessary both to introduce their treatments to people and agitate patients to determine the extent of the treatments' efficacy. If a disease cannot be treated then it becomes necessary to quarantine the sick until they die or overcome it. Since there's no way to tell if a person has become immune, and the disease will not kill its victims without agitation, the government may have had no choice but to purge the disease in more direct means.
Back to the episode, I couldn't help but think Satoko was still a little out of it when she woke up. If she understood any amount, she should have known that there were people involved and she didn't know if those around her were trustworthy. In such a situation, she was safe only as long as outside parties could protect her or so long as the enemies didn't consider her a threat. If she'd been completely alert, she would've played dead until she could get out.

[Davidj]

Originally Posted by Rias

Missing people could mean two things. Missing as in they escaped the disaster. Or missing as in the SDF didn't find their corpses.

Considered it, but 20 is too many. Shipping 20 bodies out of the area? Even if they wanted to keep some samples, 20 would be too much. The simplest explanation is that the missing people are the perpetrators.

[Exilon]

Hinamizawa has 2'000 inhabitants. 20 missing people (let's suppose they tried to flee.) isn't that much. In fact, I think it's the most likely amount of "exceptions" in such a big group.

[Davidj]

Originally Posted by Exilon

Hinamizawa has 2'000 inhabitants. 20 missing people (let's suppose they tried to flee.) isn't that much.

How many people Hinamazawa has doesn't matter. If 20 people rabbit then the plumbers have to have at least twice that many just to chase them since they can't use guns without panicking all the rest and leaving suspicious amounts of blood all around. Then they have to transport all those bodies and themselves out of Hinamazawa without being noticed.