Mobile Suit Gundam 00 - Episode 20 Discussion / Poll

[Lendial]

about veda being the last boss , its certainly possible. nadleeh can disable gundams linked to veda within in a small radius. veda on the other hand could possibly do it at any distance as well as perhaps control or command self destruct. i dont know how the miesters would be able to fight back seeing as their ultimate weapon is also their greatest weakness.

as for saji i cant help but wonder why he gets so much screen time if he isnt going to play an important role later on.

[Dean_the_Young]

1. The Trial System is in Nadleeh only, and already has a limited range. It is not a wide-area tool.
2. Tieria was already trying to destroy the Gundams: the likelyhood of him not simply pressing the throne self-destruct switch if he could is nigh 0.
3. Veda is not an AI.

[Skyfall]

Originally Posted by Lendial

about veda being the last boss , its certainly possible. nadleeh can disable gundams linked to veda within in a small radius. veda on the other hand could possibly do it at any distance as well as perhaps control or command self destruct. i dont know how the miesters would be able to fight back seeing as their ultimate weapon is also their greatest weakness.

Except, as already noted, VEDA is "just" a computer, not artificial intelligence, and i don't think there is anything in the show to imply otherwise. Someone might use VEDA to get to the crew of Ptolemy, but it won't be VEDA itself ... simply because it acts when someone tells it to do something, not on its own.

[Nanaya]

We definitely know that Alejandro, Ribbons, Laguna, and Ali are all connected somehow.

As far as the hints that were given in episode 20 are concerned, I'm more of the opinion that Ali (Gary Biaggi) works for the AEU Intelligence Bureau.

The man he was talking to inside the car awfully sounded and talked the same way as the AEU Intelligence Bureau Chief.

Plus the death of a CB-investigating reporter can be used to manipulate public opinion? Only the World Powers can really gain anything from this. To add, Ali knows way too much about the Gundams/GN-X that even Laguna Harvey was surprised about it.

[neoeagle]

Is because:

Spoiler for Reason:

You guys bitched shinsen quality is low, well yes the quality of first release was low but it was fast .They released higher qulity after 2 3 days, now they only release high quality first release which take much more time, so stop bitching

So sshhhhh..... about subs.

[lade]

An interesting and very worrying notion just occurred to me, if the gn drives are similar to that of the thrones , could all this be a means to bait all the three major power blocs to committing their full strength to a strike against celestial being by first uniting, the first step has already been done, with the not surprising response that they are moving from capture to annihilation.

Taking into consideration, that faulty specs would cause engineering mishaps the veda system can exploit, turning their supposed greatest advantage to a weakness, then when all of them have committed their forces to the attack, cripple and kill off their aces and mop up the rest. Destroying all their opposition in a single battle, taking away most of the armed forces and leaving the world to be shaped on their terms.

That's how I see this season finishing, though I also predict kinue will survive, ali's hubris has created a leak in celestial being, probably the only true weakness they have, as any good intelligence agency will be able to start putting the pieces of the puzzle together if she talks, and I see saji as an engineer not a pilot, that will probably be grahams's job, but by the end of this season I see Celestial being conquering the world.

[Dean_the_Young]

Except that the only real loss to the powers would be 30 experienced pilots, when the HRL strike force was well over that. That's a very small gain when (1) those aces were still being steadily killed in inferior suits, (2) the Powers were given a major technology boost from the GN-X's that won't be crippleable by Veda, (3) putting CB's gundams at very real risk until that "right" moment, and (4) the main loss would be the GN-X's, not the support suits (who can still fight back).

In short, that's giving someone a boost of strength in hopes of giving them a black eye. It'll hurt, but they're still stronger than they were, and can shake it off better.

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young

No, she wants to see the world change to end war, and doesn't care the methods how. She is a CB ideologue, not a nihilist.

Based on what? All she's ever said is she's interested in changing the world. Not the end of war or anything inparticular. Maybe she had some interesting dialogue this last episode, but I can't say I didn't have a nihilist/megalomania vibe from her.

Except VEDA isn't an AI; it's a quantum supercomputer that knows the master plan and every piece of data of Celestial Being. Speculation otherwise at this point is just speculation. All it does is what any other computer does: you put in information, it puts out results. It puts out lots of results; Sumeragi uses it to collaborate/check her own predictions, not the other way around.

It apparently created andriods like Libbons and Tieria to monitor and study human behavior. Would a computer, even a very smart one, do that?

[Ascaloth]

Originally Posted by Wesley84

It apparently created andriods like Libbons and Tieria to monitor and study human behavior. Would a computer, even a very smart one, do that?

Since when was it stated that Veda created Libbons and Tieria? Where did you pull that stuff out from?

It's VEDA. It's an AI. Not the Integrated Data Sentient Entity.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young

Except that the only real loss to the powers would be 30 experienced pilots, when the HRL strike force was well over that. That's a very small gain when (1) those aces were still being steadily killed in inferior suits, (2) the Powers were given a major technology boost from the GN-X's that won't be crippleable by Veda, (3) putting CB's gundams at very real risk until that "right" moment, and (4) the main loss would be the GN-X's, not the support suits (who can still fight back).

In short, that's giving someone a boost of strength in hopes of giving them a black eye. It'll hurt, but they're still stronger than they were, and can shake it off better.

This line of argument assumed two things;
1. That the given Faux GN drives were the only 30 that will exist.
2. That the Thrones and original 4 Gundams actualy matter in the long run.

However, the fact that blueprints of the faux GN drives were supplied means the world powers can make them themselves. (The faux versions are easier to make and don't require Jupiter)
If the Trojan horse attacks only after the Drive has been used everywhere, the effect would be far more than losing 30 pilots.

Further, the Thrones are seen to be expendable. The fact that their own Drives are not any safer than those in GN-X, means there might not be a need for them to live at all.

[Dean_the_Young]

Originally Posted by Wesley84

Based on what? All she's ever said is she's interested in changing the world. Not the end of war or anything inparticular. Maybe she had some interesting dialogue this last episode, but I can't say I didn't have a nihilist/megalomania vibe from her.

Based on the context, of course. When a character responds to a question along the lines of "what do you think of the methods of these new people of our organization use" and she goes "I don't care as long as the world changes," it means that she doesn't care what the methods are as long as the goal gets done. That's pretty basic literary comprehension. She's been behind CB from the beginning, not caring about casualities as long as the missions are completed. That objective-focused mindset marks her as an ideologue, not as a nihilist.

It apparently created andriods like Libbons and Tieria to monitor and study human behavior. Would a computer, even a very smart one, do that?

One: There has been no suggestion that Veda is an AI. Therefore, it could not have "decided" to do that.

Two: An android is a artificial automaton that resembles a human. We don't know what the connection between Ribbons, Tieria, and Veda consists of, but there has been no proof that Tieria is anything but human.

Three: There has been no suggestion at all that Tieria and/or Ribbons "study" human behavior. Tieria has made one comment along the lines of "this is what it means to be human" the entire series after a bonding-moment for the Meisters. No where else has there been any semblance of support for the idea that the two are studying human behavior in any way.

Originally Posted by Ascaloth

Since when was it stated that Veda created Libbons and Tieria? Where did you pull that stuff out from?

It's VEDA. It's an AI. Not the Integrated Data Sentient Entity.

No, it is not an AI. It's a quantam computer that does whatever it's told to and houses the plans for CB. It has sophisticated programing that lets it do very impressive things, but again if and only if someone puts in the data and presses "enter."

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

This line of argument assumed two things;
1. That the given Faux GN drives were the only 30 that will exist.
2. That the Thrones and original 4 Gundams actualy matter in the long run.

However, the fact that blueprints of the faux GN drives were supplied means the world powers can make them themselves. (The faux versions are easier to make and don't require Jupiter)
If the Trojan horse attacks only after the Drive has been used everywhere, the effect would be far more than losing 30 pilots.

I don't have a translation, but I was under the impression that what Billy was looking at was a data-scan, not an all-inclusive blueprint.

Even with a blueprint, building the infrastructure (in secrecy at that) to build more of them will take time, and be open to attack, and by the time that GN-Xs replace regular suits, the Thrones or Mesiters would be dead. At that point, turning-off every GN-X with its pilot in it at 100000 ft won't do much beside boost soldier pensions.

Further, the Thrones are seen to be expendable. The fact that their own Drives are not any safer than those in GN-X, means there might not be a need for them to live at all.

It depends; the Thrones still have the material sciences of the real gundams, but I haven't heard about the GN-X's having them. The fate/meaning of the Thrones is really up in the air at this point.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Even with a blueprint, building the infrastructure (in secrecy at that) to build more of them will take time, and be open to attack, and by the time that GN-Xs replace regular suits, the Thrones or Mesiters would be dead. At that point, turning-off every GN-X with its pilot in it at 100000 ft won't do much beside boost soldier pensions.

The current Meisters were only the third generation. They were not irreplaceable, as such it matters not if they all died of old age. An organization that had already waited 200 years can afford to wait another decade or two. New Meisters would be groomed for the purpose, like Felt's parents before.

CB could be feeding a flawed technology and waiting for it to be incorporated into society. Then BOOM, all of them were taken down all at once.

You lack imagination if you truly believe the faux GN-Drives would be restricted to military hardware once it is mass produced.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Given that Veda is a quantum computer it utilizes photons for processing.

Eifman early on deduced that GN particles are photons.

Yup CB utilizes GN tech on on much of their stuff.

Since Saji is an engineer and a lot crap happened to those around him indirectly because of CB I'm beginning to think he may develop in the second half of the series (if there is a time skip) an anti-GN particle tech.

It would be the ultimate screw you for CB and anybody else who uses Aeolia Schenberg's tech.

Think about it everything that has happened is a by product of Aeolia Scenberg's work. CB, Meisters, Observers, Veda, Gundams.

Saji would hate Schenberg for the doctrine which he forced upon the world.

[Freya]

Lol hey this weeks poll didn't receive a 1 yet lol.

[Morgun]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

This line of argument assumed two things;
1. That the given Faux GN drives were the only 30 that will exist.
2. That the Thrones and original 4 Gundams actualy matter in the long run.

However, the fact that blueprints of the faux GN drives were supplied means the world powers can make them themselves. (The faux versions are easier to make and don't require Jupiter)
If the Trojan horse attacks only after the Drive has been used everywhere, the effect would be far more than losing 30 pilots.

Further, the Thrones are seen to be expendable. The fact that their own Drives are not any safer than those in GN-X, means there might not be a need for them to live at all.

What would be the point of this convoluted plan? The world powers were already going to surrender. CB would have had the complete run of the world with no other MS in existence. If world domination is CB's goal then they had already achieved it. No need to give away 30 fake GN drives.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Morgun

What would be the point of this convoluted plan? The world powers were already going to surrender. CB would have had the complete run of the world with no other MS in existence. If world domination is CB's goal then they had already achieved it. No need to give away 30 fake GN drives.

You are assuming there is only one faction within CB. One faction would have to screw with the plans of the rival CB faction in order to get what they want.

Politics is messy like that.

Oh, and the faux GN drives were not given away any more than poisonous bait being considered free food.

[DJ_RockmanX]

Originally Posted by The Small One

But why is the trial system needed? Every Gundam Meister has to authenticate before the Gundam starts, so they could just revoke the authentication. (BTW, I wonder if the GN-X also requires authentication)

Many of the Meisters thus far in the anime and the manga sidestory have been shown to have more than just a few screws loose in the head.

Setsuna's a former child guerrilla, Allelujah's a war machine with an alter ego, and Lockon's got a short fuse when it comes to the thought of terrorism.

[snip]
Tieria, the Meister passing judgment upon the other Meisters. The Trial system is his final solution for stopping a rogue Gundam unit, having failed removing the Meisters themselves by reporting their insubordination or killing them outright.

But then again, lately Tieria's been dropping his rough exterior as he bonds with the Meisters he works with. Typical tsundere.

[Zenemis]

He hasn't blushed yet though. Yet.

I do think the GN-X is a nice looking MP Ace suit

[D a m i e n]

Originally Posted by NarutoFreak1

Lol hey this weeks poll didn't receive a 1 yet lol.

Mime is prolly on holiday skying somewhere without a connection, i m sure he ll vote as soon as his holidays are over.

[D a m i e n]

learn japanese or learn to be patient, whatever works for you :/