|
View Poll Results: Sakurasou no Pet na Kanojo - Episode 9 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 13 | 22.03% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 14 | 23.73% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 22 | 37.29% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 9 | 15.25% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 1 | 1.69% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 0 | 0% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 0 | 0% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 0 | 0% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 0 | 0% | |
Voters: 59. You may not vote on this poll |
|
Thread Tools |
2012-12-07, 09:01 | Link #221 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Dai Korai Teikoku
|
Food for thought: Mashiro duty can be done only by someone who is hired or actually cares about Mashiro. Rita would certainly not be the former, leaving only the latter. Then, exactly where does the unfound biased thought of Rita having some bad motivation come in? In fact, I would say such a thought can only be made if one ignores the overall situation and sees only what they want to see.
|
2012-12-07, 09:20 | Link #222 |
Senior Member
Author
|
One factor I think we need to consider with Rita and Mashiro. It's a factor that Zavie rightly brought up several pages back, but since that it hasn't been discussed much.
Mashiro... isn't exactly a normal teenaged girl. And I don't just mean her talent for painting. I mean that she seems to have Savant syndrome, or something similar to it at least. Mashiro doesn't speak her mind as clearly and thoroughly as what most people do. And it's not a matter of shyness - Mashiro is very bold if anything - But it's rather a case of Mashiro seeming to lack the capacity for detailed conversation. Rita probably sees Mashiro as somebody who can't be trusted to look after herself. And given what Mashiro was like at the start of this anime, I don't see how you can blame Rita for that. Mashiro really did have major issues with looking after herself at first. I wouldn't be surprised if back in England, Mashiro was diagnosed as autistic, or something along the same lines. And so she was babied not out of some malicious desire to control her, but because people sincerely thought that Mashiro just lacked the mental capacity to learn to take care of herself. Rita perhaps doubts that Mashiro has the mental capacity to really think about the choices put in front of her here, and hence takes a more forceful stance. As someone who has an autistic cousin, I can certainly understand why Rita would do this.
__________________
|
2012-12-07, 14:28 | Link #223 | |
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
|
Quote:
__________________
|
|
2012-12-07, 17:26 | Link #224 | |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
|
Quote:
I think the fact that Mashiro has not chosen to pursue painting right now is not itself "evidence" that she can't think for herself. Rather, the fact that she's chosen something other than painting (that she's always done) proves that she is thinking for herself. So this all suggests (to me, anyway) that Rita may not fully want Mashiro to be independent, because if Mashiro makes her own choices she may not do what Rita thinks is best for her. If someone really lacks the mental capacity to think for themselves, as you suggest, would that justify pushing them down a path they seem not inclined to take because it's better for "the world", even when the alternative would help them do the things they want to do and develop the very independence they seem to be lacking? Should one person be able to decide for another person that their own personal desires are less important than "the greater good"? You'll find some extremely troubling ethical quandaries if you venture down this path.
__________________
|
|
2012-12-07, 18:06 | Link #225 | |||
Senior Member
Author
|
Quote:
But good grief, it's only been one episode. It's unreasonable to expect Rita to have already fully registered all the changes Mashiro has experienced since coming to Sakurasou. At least give Rita another episode or two before we make a complete evaluation of her character and motivations. Quote:
Quote:
Rita's actions make perfect sense in a real world setting with a real life person like Shiina, which is why I think some people here are faulting Rita too much. But I'll grant you that in a fictional anime narrative, you may well get a Disney-esque happy ending anyway.
__________________
|
|||
2012-12-07, 19:35 | Link #226 | |||
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
|
Quote:
You keep constantly shifting the goalposts in this discussion. First it was "Mashiro has an obligation to the world". Then it was "Mashiro should at least consider her obligation to the world". Now it's "Mashiro isn't really in a position to make an informed decision about her obligation to the world". The common theme through your entire argument is, because she made a certain choice about what to do with her own artistic talent (one that, in your view, "squanders her talent"), that she's in need of "correction". That is the very premise I don't agree with. Quote:
Quote:
__________________
|
|||
2012-12-07, 20:14 | Link #227 | |||
Me at work
|
(triple_R,feel free to say if I've understood your posts wrong)
Quote:
Quote:
It was (and I figure still is) " Mashiro has an obligation to at least consider that she has a great talent for painting and the consequences of turning down such a career" And what he just brought up isn't "Mashiro isn't really in a position to make an informed decision about her obligation to the world" but rather that Rita has the misguided view that Mashiro might not know what's best for her,not that he himself believes that. Quote:
There's hardly been anybody that has said they feel Mashiro needs to go back to England,just people that feel Rita is being viewed " as some evil villain that needs to be defeated" by some (maybe not you relentlessflame,but others) and that it's not fair to her.
__________________
|
|||
2012-12-07, 20:18 | Link #228 | |
We're Back
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Redgrave City
Age: 35
|
Quote:
For all intents and purposes, Rita is her caretaker- And as if it wasn't enough, she herself was a young girl during that time.
__________________
|
|
2012-12-07, 20:34 | Link #230 | ||||||
Senior Member
Author
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
In any event, when I recently read Sumeragi raise "Mashiro duty" it occurred to me that there's a side to this that most of us (myself included, I'll admit) had neglected here. And that side is that Mashiro is not a normal teenager, and for reasons that go beyond just her artistic talents. I think it's important to bring that side of things into focus now because I think it helps to explain why Rita is doing what she's doing. Quote:
Quote:
Key Excerpt: My general thinking is that when you're facing a major decision in life it's good to think about the pros and cons of each possible decision. My thinking is "How will my decision affect others?" should come up somewhere in those pros/cons. That's all. The decisive factor could still be "I'd rather do manga because I've come to love verbalized storytelling. I find that greatly more rewarding than the merely implied storytelling of painting." If so, fine. In other words, I could accept Mashiro choosing to turn her back on painting forever (I certainly wouldn't like it, but I could accept it), as long as such a decision involved a careful weighing of all the pros and cons, including how her decision will affect others. In my view, that is simply a balanced, mature, and appropriately thoughtful approach to take when making major life decisions.
__________________
|
||||||
2012-12-07, 21:22 | Link #231 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Planet Earth
Age: 54
|
All these rants and anger over Rita's action/words and Sorata's feeling... Is there something about Rita and Sorata thinking that reminds you of something? What experience did you have that enforces your anger at them?
__________________
|
2012-12-07, 21:43 | Link #232 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
|
Mashiro could easily do both, she could devote almost all of her passion to manga and if she gets inspired she could easily do a painting and sell it at an increased markup due to scarcity.
I suspect though that the apparatus's (corporation or group of interested parties that acts as her caretakers) jobs are funded by her putting out paintings. Thus they need her back. If I recall correctly Michael Jordan was kicked off his college basketball team or was it high school, then told he didn't have a future playing basketball. Einstein was seen as a fool until he was taught algebra. He wasn't scouted as the next prodigy. He worked as clerk in the patent office until his work was published. If no one bothered to look at it, he could easily have died in obscurity. Simply put, let people find their own ways to serve one another. Painting has been around for a long time, comic books & manga are a recent thing, what if manga replaces painting. Why are people trying to hold others back? |
2012-12-08, 00:08 | Link #233 | |||
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
|
Use of the word "caretaker" was obviously a poor choice of words in this situation given the literal nature of what is going on. I apologize for the poor choice of words. What I meant was she's not her legal guardian any more then Sorata is just because they're "assigned" to "Mashiro Duty". Neither of them are in a position to make life decisions on her behalf, and that is not what they're being asked or expected to do. They're supporting her. Do I think that makes them interested parties? Yes, and very interested even. But I don't believe this gives either of them (or us) the right to judge her decision-making process based on not making the choice they think she should make (or not agreeing with her reasons why).
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Anyway, because this is a philosophical belief, I'm not sure that everyone will be able to agree about it in the end. But I hope that at least the belief/philosophy is clearer now. I will try to leave it at that.
__________________
Last edited by relentlessflame; 2012-12-08 at 00:21. |
|||
2012-12-08, 04:14 | Link #234 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: United States of America
Age: 32
|
I only skimmed the posts but I agree with relentlessflame. A person's decision is theirs alone to take. People don't really have "obligations".
However, I do think people who care for a person have the right (not natural or lawful, but one that's pragmatic and will always be exercised, like it or not) to at least request that the person consider things they would otherwise not consider when trying to make a decision. The person should still have, and, in reality, always does have, complete control over what decision they make but when people truly invest themselves into a person, the least the person do is try to consider their perspective. It is simply courtesy. But courtesy isn't an obligation. It's not a binding mandate. Nothing in life is. Whether or not people can accept choices other people make is for people doing the accepting to decide too. It's just that unless they have a very very strong reason (immediate harm to a living being of a pretty strong severity comes to mind) to intervene, they have no right to interfere whether or not they agree with the choices being made. People have no "obligation" to conform to other people but it's impossible to live a functional life if you're going to be that stubbornly idealistic. It's also impossible for people to not consider the feelings of those that care for them anyway so the point's a bit moot and thank god (whether or not "he" exists), for that.
__________________
|
2012-12-08, 07:24 | Link #235 | |||||||||
Senior Member
Author
|
Quote:
Your position is simply out of whack with basic human nature. And really, I think it's good that people judge the actions and decisions of others. It encourages good behavior and careful decision-making. It encourages us to consider others and their viewpoints in our decision-making process. And isn't that a good thing? Or do you think that each individual should be an island unto himself/herself? The key is not to always ignore or casually accept the decisions that other people make, but to recognize where it's our place to quietly disagree (if we do so) and where it's acceptable for us to intervene. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
When a person makes a decision that will inevitably impact other people, it is basic human nature for people to hold opinions on that person's decision. It is inevitable, and it is intrinsic to who we are as human beings. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Saying that no one has the right to question Shiina's decision is essentially saying that no one has a right to voice a disagreeing opinion on Shiina's decision. And that runs completely contrary to the very concept of Freedom of Expression. In actual fact, people in your country and mine have a legal right to question whatever decision they want to question. And no, this doesn't fall under "slander and libel" either. It's not slanderous or libelous to simply express a disagreeing opinion. Quote:
__________________
Last edited by Triple_R; 2012-12-08 at 07:41. |
|||||||||
2012-12-08, 07:45 | Link #236 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
|
^ hmm I see what you're saying, pretty solid points. but isn't Rita doing MORE than " expressing contrary opinion over the decision of others?"
She is in fact actively trying to subvert Mashiro's decision, using questionable methods (and involving others to boot). I don't really see what the problem is in just sitting down and calmly discussing the situation and the options with Mashiro over a cup of TEA!. you know like try to understand each other... >>> which amusingly enough is the more common "British" stereotype you see around , and well I think that's a pretty Gentlemanly/womanly way to go about it. That's how Darjeeling-sama would do it hehe |
2012-12-08, 08:08 | Link #237 | |
We're Back
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Redgrave City
Age: 35
|
Quote:
__________________
|
|
2012-12-08, 10:59 | Link #238 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
|
Sleeping in Sorata's room, knowing that this would irk Mashiro
Not to mention Flirting with him (don't tell me that's not a calculated action on her part) Not listening to mashiro, just shrugging it off as inconsequential, and insisting on her own views, when Mashiro is clearly intent on her own decisions. Rita : "I can't let Mashiro learn manga here"...> like who is she to decide what Mashiro can and WANT to learn? and what's with that "she'll break you" warning? yes viewing the painting was good, should have been the first thing she did with a heartfelt talk,not a one sided dictation, and definitely not any of that hullabalooh. She should bring everyone, not just Sorata (again a calculated move on her part, with a deliberate intent on forcing the issue by getting "agreement" from her "owner", even the usage of the word "date" right there, was meant by her to solicit a reaction from Mashiro. What's with the "I'll stay with sorata until you come back to England with me?" wouldn't that be forcing the issue? well acceptable or not might be open to debate, depends on the person i guess. That is why i said questionable, 'cause i definitely question the motives governing her chosen course of action. I certainly didn't like it myself, I'm pretty sure Mashiro herself was no fan of what Rita was doing there too. again the question remains isn't this already more than EXPRESSING & DISCUSSING her own personal opinions? |
2012-12-08, 11:53 | Link #239 | ||
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
|
Quote:
Quote:
Anyway, if that still isn't enough to clarify, then I guess that's it.
__________________
|
||
2012-12-08, 11:56 | Link #240 | |||||
Me at work
|
Quote:
If Mashiro is willing to give up manga because someone is flirting with a guy she likes then I'd say her interest in manga wasn't big to begin with. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
That's not to say I don't think Rita is misguided and approve of everything she does but she's not some selfish person that wants to profit from Mashiro's talent by exploiting her
__________________
|
|||||
|
|